Order, Rules, Control...

[240 is Back]

"Rules mean order. Order means a good organization working for the betterment."

"There should not be six or seven federations.  There should be only one federation."

QUESTION: "What would lee have to do, to be allowed to compete again in the IFBB?"

"The fellow has to follow the rules.
If he agrees to follow the rules of the federation, he can come back."

"I've got nothing against Lee Priest.  but if you're going to have a federation that is solid, that is orderly, that is well controlled, you have to have a rule." 

"It was through rules and control that we succeeded."

"We're not going to let any of these fellows who don't respect the rules, ruin the IFBB." 

(Weider on de Radio)

[McFarland]

Look at it from the perspective of all the other pros.  How many other pros could have jumped ship to pick up a quick $30,000?  There are more than a couple of pros out there better than Priest...so what do you think THEY think about his ability to just jump ship like that and bet on the fact that the IFBB will "forgive" him?  They could have gotten that $30K.  So the IFBB letting him back in is just a slap in the face to all the other guys that stayed loyal.  Yeah, everybody likes Lee and nobody really wants to see him only competing in the PDI...but really, I think it's kinda disrespectful to the IFBB, because it puts them in a very difficult situation.  Bodybuilders don't realize how much they need the IFBB...AS MUCH AS IT NEEDS THEM...which is all the need there is.  I really don't think there's anybody doing anyone any favors here.  Guys are gonna bodybuild for free and if Lee can be an idol the world over and make 6 figures plus a year doing it then come on...Lee oughta be happy.  Nobody's doing it for the money.  If money were the primary objective, there are a million better ways to make money.  Lee doesn't mind all the attention and fan worship that comes with doing the Olympia, so come on.  If it's that big of a bitch just quit bodybuilding and get a real job or some other "sponsorship."  But see, it's not about that.  It's about being famous and seeing yourself all over the magazines.  It's about gaining influence.  How many people that you see in the magazines would do the shit for free?  Most all of them, as they most all do. 

If bodybuilders think they can make so much more without the IFBB let them try, but they're not gonna do it as the situation stands. 

[McFarland]

I'll add that I also think that businessmen like those involved here oughta drop the egos and figure out something that works mutually.  They're better minded than this.  Maybe now with things kind of looking like they're gonna switch back around they can all make amends and everyone can win again. 

[Mr. Intenseone]

"Rules mean order. Order means a good organization working for the betterment."

"There should not be six or seven federations.  There should be only one federation."

QUESTION: "What would lee have to do, to be allowed to compete again in the IFBB?"

"The fellow has to follow the rules.
If he agrees to follow the rules of the federation, he can come back."

"I've got nothing against Lee Priest.  but if you're going to have a federation that is solid, that is orderly, that is well controlled, you have to have a rule." 

"It was through rules and control that we succeeded."

"We're not going to let any of these fellows who don't respect the rules, ruin the IFBB." 

(Weider on de Radio)

What a crock of shit !!!!

[240 is Back]

I'll add that I also think that businessmen like those involved here oughta drop the egos and figure out something that works mutually.  They're better minded than this.  Maybe now with things kind of looking like they're gonna switch back around they can all make amends and everyone can win again. 

Very good call.  

[ieffinhatecardio]

"We're not going to let any of these fellows who don't respect the rules, ruin the IFBB." 

(Weider on de Radio)

This is the one I find most interesting. I wonder if he's referring to all the rules or just selected rules?

[Mr. Intenseone]

"Rules mean order. Order means a good organization working for the betterment."

"There should not be six or seven federations.  There should be only one federation."

QUESTION: "What would lee have to do, to be allowed to compete again in the IFBB?"

"The fellow has to follow the rules.
If he agrees to follow the rules of the federation, he can come back."

"I've got nothing against Lee Priest.  but if you're going to have a federation that is solid, that is orderly, that is well controlled, you have to have a rule." 

"It was through rules and control that we succeeded."

"We're not going to let any of these fellows who don't respect the rules, ruin the IFBB." 

(Weider on de Radio)

I seriously don't think if Weider, Bob Chic, or anyone in that "close to defunct" organization realize is that if they actually ENFORCED the written rules there would be no federation.........again, what a crock of shit!

[McFarland]

Very good call.  

240 if you were another pro how would you feel about the IFBB letting Lee right back in?  Lee doesn't think he needs anybody to do his thing.  He needs the whole machine that the Weiders took a lifetime to build and you're just not gonna come up with something better by deciding to just do things your own way.  See this is how Wayne's thinking as well and they need to get over it.  Yeah, Wayne's got that New York show on lock...he lives there and that's his town and he's got all those connections built up...but there's a very powerful effect that brand imaging has on things.  If you could manufacture a Nike shoe that was every bit as good as the original, how much cheaper would you have to make it to make up for the fact that it didn't carry the swoosh?  Man you can't win that battle.  The NOC this year WAS NOT better than the one last year.  So Wayne doesn't even have that working for him here.  Everyone he got to compete was drawn there because they couldn't be shit in the IFBB anyway (except for Lee), so you tell me if it's what you wanna see. 

Please take a moment to consider just how much new sponsorship and ticket sale money Wayne would have to bring in to EVER successfully compete with the IFBB.  Until he does, PDI titles aren't going to mean shit to the REAL champions because they don't prove a damn thing.  How much pride do you think Lee feels telling IFBB guys, "yeah, I'm the PDI champ...recognize."  Recognize what?  It's like the guy that should have competed in the open doing the juniors and wiping the floor with everyone.  That shit's not even fair to everyone placing below Lee in the PDI shows.  They should be pissed at him for showing up, too.  They already know they can't be the best in the world so why not let them have their own little gimp version of the real thing.  It's their only chance for glory and Lee took it from them.  Hard to justify when all it means to him is about 3 more months of frivolous spending.            

[McFarland]

I see Wayne talking all this big shit to everyone...taking the time to discuss with people like Rhino on the telephone how everyone's gonna get rich and the IFBB's fucked.  Yeah right.  Come on.  He's STILL using the athletes as pawns in all this to satisfy his own overblown ego.  Most IFBB pros will tell you Wayne never gave a f**k about anyone but himself in these matters...which I partially understand...because, like I said...it's the promotion and business savvy that these guys lack and he don't really have to pay them what he does...but for him to take this "I care about the sport" attitude now is ridiculous for anyone that's ever known how he is.

Example.  IFBB competitor:  "Wayne, you think you could cover my plane ticket to the NOC?"  Wayne:  "Um, no.  So I'll see you there, ok?  Good luck with your prep."  What's the pro gonna do, not go?  Hell no.  They're still going if they have any business competing there.  And they do.  Bodybuilders find a way, trust me.  You really can't feel sorry for any of them.  If they want something they go get it.  We've got alot of untapped potential in this lot that way, so it's discouraging to see your heroes act like idiots over stupid shit.  I'm sorry but this whole thing is fucked.  Lee's been bored with bodybuilding for about the past 5 years now so why doesn't he just quit anyway.  We're not about to see anything better than what he's presented in the past and he knows it so now he just gets more tattoos.  Hey don't be mad at bodybuilding for that, Lee.  Just realize that all your pissing and moaning and sewing seeds of dissention is ruining it for everyone else.         

[onlyme]

I see Wayne talking all this big shit to everyone...taking the time to discuss with people like Rhino on the telephone how everyone's gonna get rich and the IFBB's fucked.  Yeah right.  Come on.  He's STILL using the athletes as pawns in all this to satisfy his own overblown ego.  Most IFBB pros will tell you Wayne never gave a f**k about anyone but himself in these matters...which I partially understand...because, like I said...it's the promotion and business savvy that these guys lack and he don't really have to pay them what he does...but for him to take this "I care about the sport" attitude now is ridiculous for anyone that's ever known how he is.

Interesting how you support the IFBB and talk bad about Wayne saying he doesn't care yet he is the only one to take on the IFBB and the only one who is offering them money and other incentives.  WHich include paid travel and hotel which is something the IFBB does not do.  Wayne has all along told everyone they can compete in the PDI and IFBB at the same time like it should be.  It is the IFBB who is taking away from the BB's.  It is the IFBB who is trying restrict and control how pros should make a living.  It is the IFBB who has ruined the sport.  How come from all indications all the competitors are happy in the PDI.  All I have read is how much fun they have backstage and how much fun and what an honor it has been for everyone to compete with Lee.  And in return Lee acts like a regular guy and talks to everyone and the guys are all taking backstage.  Yet at teh Olympia no one talks to anyone.  The tension is so high and nobody likes each other.  The IFBB is past it's prime and on it's downslide.  The PDI is just picking up steam.  Wait to see next  years schedule.  Wait to see who Wayne has coming on financially. 

Example.  IFBB competitor:  "Wayne, you think you could cover my plane ticket to the NOC?"  Wayne:  "Um, no.  So I'll see you there, ok?  Good luck with your prep."  What's the pro gonna do, not go?  Hell no.  They're still going if they have any business competing there.  And they do.  Bodybuilders find a way, trust me. 

I see you make this up as you go.  In actuallity, the IFBB pro ask the IFBB if they would pay for airfare and hotel for him to compete in the Grand Prix and they said no.  He then called Wayne and he said absolutely. IN fact Wayne has paid for most airfare and hotels for the guys.  SOmething you'll never see from the IFBB. 

[McFarland]

Interesting how you support the IFBB and talk bad about Wayne saying he doesn't care yet he is the only one to take on the IFBB and the only one who is offering them money and other incentives.  WHich include paid travel and hotel which is something the IFBB does not do.  Wayne has all along told everyone they can compete in the PDI and IFBB at the same time like it should be.  It is the IFBB who is taking away from the BB's.  It is the IFBB who is trying restrict and control how pros should make a living.  It is the IFBB who has ruined the sport.  How come from all indications all the competitors are happy in the PDI.  All I have read is how much fun they have backstage and how much fun and what an honor it has been for everyone to compete with Lee.  And in return Lee acts like a regular guy and talks to everyone and the guys are all taking backstage.  Yet at teh Olympia no one talks to anyone.  The tension is so high and nobody likes each other.  The IFBB is past it's prime and on it's downslide.  The PDI is just picking up steam.  Wait to see next  years schedule.  Wait to see who Wayne has coming on financially. 

Example.  IFBB competitor:  "Wayne, you think you could cover my plane ticket to the NOC?"  Wayne:  "Um, no.  So I'll see you there, ok?  Good luck with your prep."  What's the pro gonna do, not go?  Hell no.  They're still going if they have any business competing there.  And they do.  Bodybuilders find a way, trust me. 

I see you make this up as you go.  In actuallity, the IFBB pro ask the IFBB if they would pay for airfare and hotel for him to compete in the Grand Prix and they said no.  He then called Wayne and he said absolutely. IN fact Wayne has paid for most airfare and hotels for the guys.  SOmething you'll never see from the IFBB. 

Dude let it go and move on.  We all make mistakes. 

[thisiskeith12]

The tension is so high and nobody likes each other. 

It's good to see rivalry and intensity among competition, most sports benefit greatly from this.

The IFBB is past it's prime and on it's downslide.  The PDI is just picking up steam.  Wait to see next  years schedule.  Wait to see who Wayne has coming on financially. 

I think before the IFBB starts worrying about paying for flights and hotels, they should continue working on increasing prize money at ALL shows, not just the Olympia. Keep in mind that the NFL, the league doesn't pay for the team hotel rooms on the weekends, the owners of the teams do. Such is cordial when you are making a few hundred mil a year. The IFBB needs to focus on getting more out of their sponsors and affiliates most importantly. Hell if Ben and Joe were to take some of their money they got from that AMI deal and use it for prize money or something of the like, it would benefit tremendously.

[McFarland]

It's good to see rivalry and intensity among competition, most sports benefit greatly from this.

I think before the IFBB starts worrying about paying for flights and hotels, they should continue working on increasing prize money at ALL shows, not just the Olympia. Keep in mind that the NFL, the league doesn't pay for the team hotel rooms on the weekends, the owners of the teams do. Such is cordial when you are making a few hundred mil a year. The IFBB needs to focus on getting more out of their sponsors and affiliates most importantly. Hell if Ben and Joe were to take some of their money they got from that AMI deal and use it for prize money or something of the like, it would benefit tremendously.

IMO if they gave these most of these guys much more than what they do, they'd very quickly self-destruct.  I think this factor goes unconsidered but you guys don't understand the mentality most of these guys have.  You don't know what's responsible for most of their having ever to come to look like what they do.  Yeah, it's simple, right?  If Joe Weider makes $350 million, throw the boys a bone.  I'm here to tell you that in most cases, it'd actually do more to hurt most of them than help.  And if they REALLY didn't wanna be doing the gay for pay shit they'd have found something else to make a buck.  Why do you think that Joe always stressed so much the need for these guys to develop a trade?  Because the appreciation for what they're trying to make of themselves is very limited in the grand scheme of things and he never wanted any of the pros to say, "hey Joe, now what?"  Joe never forced any of them to become bodybuilders and if they can build a physique like that then they have the discipline and at least street smarts to make a legitimate buck or 2.  Trust me, they either like the attention from gays more than they're able to admit or they're lazy.  These guys seriously find a way to do anything, in pretty much the way that they want.  Most of the guys making real sponsorship money don't have to cross any lines of decency anyway.  The real talent isn't made to lose their dignity to get the support they need, anyway.  If you're the best in the world the men most able to make sure that you are able to actualize that talent don't want to see you lose your dignity for that.  They want to see heroes be made.  They want to be able to look up to these individuals and admire them for what they lack in other realms.  I have definitely noticed this trend so I don't feel sorry for anybody that claims to be a slave to the industry.           

[Alex23]

Sounds like the money is there and always has been there.  This is why monopolies are bad.

This is simple - the PDI might not help as it may well fail (I doubt this).  But it definitely CAN'T hurt.  So why stop something that can't possibly cause any harm?

Because it's a distraction... I don't see the IFBB as a monopoly... do you see the NFL or the NBA as one? Who drives football and keeps the money flowing other than ticket sales? Commercials; Bud, Nike, Miller Ford etc...

Who's going to keep bobybuilding alive? The one that need the commercials; what is TV to football, magazine is to bodybuilding. The supplements company; sprouting like mushrooms for the past 7 years but nobody really look at their "takeover" of the sport seriously. Much like corporation did to the pro sports in the '80s.

[McFarland]

Because it's a distraction... I don't see the IFBB as a monopoly... do you see the NFL or the NBA as one? Who drives football and keeps the money flowing other than ticket sales? Commercials; Bud, Nike, Miller Ford etc...

Who's going to keep bobybuilding alive? The one that need the commercials; what is TV to football, magazine is to bodybuilding. The supplements company; sprouting like mushrooms for the past 7 years but nobody really look at their "takeover" of the sport seriously. Much like corporation did to the pro sports in the '80s.

Yeah, good point.  Does the friggin' NBA or NFL need "healthy competition?"  Didn't Vince McMahon try to make that XFL league for football a couple of years ago to give the NFL competition just like he did the WBF?  Where the hell is it now?  I'm telling you, when it's about a bunch of bullshit ego stuff it's not gonna fly and that's what has fueled both McMahon's and Demilia's respective efforts in both these scenarios...it wasn't for the sport, it was for them. 

[McFarland]

Sounds like the money is there and always has been there.  This is why monopolies are bad.

This is simple - the PDI might not help as it may well fail (I doubt this).  But it definitely CAN'T hurt.  So why stop something that can't possibly cause any harm?

Hey, if Wayne can keep making money off finding enough second-rate guys to be a part of that thing then more power to him.  I'm just saying that no real champion is about to be associated with that mess.  If you believe you are the best in the world then you want to compete with the best in the world. 

I knew as soon as 240 announced (in very anti-climatic fashion, I might add) the first "signed PDI pro" as Rhino what the whole thing was gonna be about, as did we all.  Come on now, wake up everybody. 

[Lee_a_priest]

I see Wayne talking all this big shit to everyone...taking the time to discuss with people like Rhino on the telephone how everyone's gonna get rich and the IFBB's fucked.  Yeah right.  Come on.  He's STILL using the athletes as pawns in all this to satisfy his own overblown ego.  Most IFBB pros will tell you Wayne never gave a f**k about anyone but himself in these matters...which I partially understand...because, like I said...it's the promotion and business savvy that these guys lack and he don't really have to pay them what he does...but for him to take this "I care about the sport" attitude now is ridiculous for anyone that's ever known how he is.

Example.  IFBB competitor:  "Wayne, you think you could cover my plane ticket to the NOC?"  Wayne:  "Um, no.  So I'll see you there, ok?  Good luck with your prep."  What's the pro gonna do, not go?  Hell no.  They're still going if they have any business competing there.  And they do.  Bodybuilders find a way, trust me.  You really can't feel sorry for any of them.  If they want something they go get it.  We've got alot of untapped potential in this lot that way, so it's discouraging to see your heroes act like idiots over stupid shit.  I'm sorry but this whole thing is fucked.  Lee's been bored with bodybuilding for about the past 5 years now so why doesn't he just quit anyway.  We're not about to see anything better than what he's presented in the past and he knows it so now he just gets more tattoos.  Hey don't be mad at bodybuilding for that, Lee.  Just realize that all your pissing and moaning and sewing seeds of dissention is ruining it for everyone else.         

Well you really have no idea what your talking about enough said.

[McFarland]

The magic kind? 

WWF and WCW.

Discuss.

I don't follow wrestling enough to know what you're getting at.  So tell me...did the inception of the WCW enable wrestlers in both organizations to get paid more?  And isn't wrestling based more on theatrics and showmanship as opposed to pure technical skill?  Isn't it true that as a general rule, the best wrestlers haven't actually been the best WRESTLERS so much as they were the best showmen.  I mean, if you're talking about the ability to jump and hit and take falls and do flips and this, that and the other, from a purely wrestling purist standpoint, aren't those qualities almost never compensated as much as the showmanship stuff?  This is bodybuilding and any sort of "showmanship" onstage has thus far been nothing but gay, and there's no way you can make a bodybuilder more appreciable on a stage by dressing him up in something or having him sing a song or talk or anything.

Pro wrestling is MEANT to be a soap opera.  Offstage theatrics don't make the 7th place finisher any more deserving of 1st place in bodybuilding so perhaps this comparison is apples and oranges.  

[McFarland]

Well you really have no idea what your talking about enough said.

Well I can respect the fact that perhaps you have more insight than I do here, but surely if I was so wrong you could be a little more convincing than that.

[McFarland]

Lee think about it, nobody wants to see you compete against people they've never heard of in the PDI.  And that's who you're gonna be competing against in the PDI.  Even if there does happen to be a few "IFBB-worthy" competitors come up in the PDI they'll just get snatched up some way by the IFBB.  As soon as Sami gets a little more size on him he's gone.  The PDI will eventually just end up another IFBB qualifier at best.  You guest posed at that PDI show and if you were any better than you were in the IFBB we surely couldn't tell because your beating "no name nobody" this year at the NOC didn't tell us shit about your merit as a bodybuilder.  Don't you want legitimate competition?     

[McFarland]

Lee we just wanna see you be a good bodybuilder.  All this "controversy" really isn't your strongest selling point, it really isn't.  You getting good enough to beat someone you haven't beaten before is what we wanna see you do.   

[Cleanest Natural]

i got another suggestion and i remember ron love agreeing with me on the subject: select all the ifbb judges from former competitors on the pro stages

[McFarland]

i got another suggestion and i remember ron love agreeing with me on the subject: select all the ifbb judges from former competitors on the pro stages

Well you have a point that alot of the IFBB placings have been bullshit, but Wayne surely isn't gonna be able to form a more objective judging panel at PDI events, especially if the money coming in increases to any significant extent.  That's just the reality here. 

[Cleanest Natural]

give it time ...pdi will get only better...take my word for it....they just started

[McFarland]

give it time ...pdi will get only better...take my word for it....they just started

It'll only get better because it couldn't get any worse.