Athiests are more noble than god believing folks...cause...

[mightymouse72]

really?  you'll be made a new person?  Like this church leader who bought meth and reportedly had gay sex with a man?  That's GOD's power?  Or run of the mill weekday sinner - weekend church goer?


I have no fear of death save my family's greif.  And that has nothing to do with accepting Jesus as my savior.  Further more the "good deeds"  i do are not attached to trying to make it to heaven.  I am choosing to live by God's will.  (not the gibberish you call the BIBle but much of what you and i find in it that is GOD, just not every word)

Where is GOD as my very good friend, PASTOR, who had spent the last 15 living a a near perfect life, now finds himself getting divorced, and whoring around drinking and getting drunk all the time?  Was GOD ever truely in his heart?   I question that, becuase of his anger with GOD, he has thrown away all the principles he has been preaching all those years?  If that was the only holding him back then he was never that person to begin with.


Accepting Jesus Christ seems more like a get out of Jail free card that indirectly encourages you not to be accountable for your choices and actions.   It makes a weak christain IMO.

Christians need to start acting more like christians.

your mistake is judging christianity by one man's actions. 

the only perfect man that ever lived was nailed to a cross.

all we as christians need to do is know for sure that our heart is right with God.

[OzmO]

your mistake is judging christianity by one man's actions. 

the only perfect man that ever lived was nailed to a cross.

all we as christians need to do is know for sure that our heart is right with God.

One man's actions? 

get out more and read the papers.

He ain't the only professed Christian to shoot their husband, cheat on their wife, have gay sex, do drugs, extort and black mail, etc...

Oh yeah but they aren't perfect so it's ok. 

So come and join christianity where you can do what ever you want, and still go to heaven!

All we can do is make you feel guilty with our judgemental sermons and condesending crap.


FOLKS,  there is a difference between making minor mistakes and choosing to commit major sins.

[loco]

really?  you'll be made a new person? 

Yes

Like this church leader who bought meth and reportedly had gay sex with a man?  That's GOD's power?  Or run of the mill weekday sinner - weekend church goer?

No, not like him.

I have no fear of death save my family's greif.  And that has nothing to do with accepting Jesus as my savior.  Further more the "good deeds"  i do are not attached to trying to make it to heaven.  I am choosing to live by God's will.  (not the gibberish you call the BIBle but much of what you and i find in it that is GOD, just not every word)

Then you should be afraid, very afraid.  That gibberish is God's holy word, and He still loves you even after you wrote that.

Where is GOD as my very good friend, PASTOR, who had spent the last 15 living a a near perfect life, now finds himself getting divorced, and whoring around drinking and getting drunk all the time?  Was GOD ever truely in his heart?

Probably not, but I pray that this pastor will soon accept Jesus as his lord and saviour.   

Accepting Jesus Christ seems more like a get out of Jail free card that indirectly encourages you not to be accountable for your choices and actions.   It makes a weak christain IMO.

It may seem that way to you, but it is not.  You are entitled to your opinion.

Christians need to start acting more like christians.

Many Christians act like Christians.  You pick on a select few, so called "Christians" to justify you lack of faith in Jesus Christ and in God's word.

[OzmO]

Then you should be afraid, very afraid.  That gibberish is God's holy word, and He still loves you even after you wrote that.

Him loving me is not the issue.  I wonder if he loved the 3000 men women and children he ordered moses to kill.

Most of the Bible is gibberish with some very great passages of GoD's word,  just as in many other holy books that aren't christians.  That's the great part about christiainity and other religions for that matter, they are ALL very CONVINCED they have the right answers.   

Probably not, but I pray that this pastor will soon accept Jesus as his lord and saviour.   

I wonder how you would of answered if i accused this pastor of not being touched by god before all this happened? 

"Oh my this great spritual leader of GOD's word!"

It may seem that way to you, but it is not.  You are entitled to your opinion.

Umm,  but it is.   I can do what ever i want,  just like that pastor and because i've accepted Jesus Chrisgt as my savior, I'll go to heaven.

Many Christians act like Christians.  You pick on a select few, so called "Christians" to justify you lack of faith in Jesus Christ and in God's word.

no,  the vast majority of Christians do not follow the BIble literally and 72% of people do not believe it literally.

AND..............many Christians committ the same sins repeatedly...........  even with the supposed race of god.

[mightymouse72]

One man's actions? 

get out more and read the papers.

He ain't the only professed Christian to shoot their husband, cheat on their wife, have gay sex, do drugs, extort and black mail, etc...

Oh yeah but they aren't perfect so it's ok. 

So come and join christianity where you can do what ever you want, and still go to heaven!

All we can do is make you feel guilty with our judgemental sermons and condesending crap.


FOLKS,  there is a difference between making minor mistakes and choosing to commit major sins.

so christians are supposed to be perfect and not commit any sins??
you must stop worrying about what another man does.  man will always fail you.  no man is perfect.  and everytime you read about some awful deed another christian has done, it just adds fuel to your fire.
you just need to worry about YOUR own relationship with God. 

God will deal with those people who kill, rape, drive drunk and kill familys, abuse children.  etc...
it is not your job to judge those people. 

[OzmO]

so christians are supposed to be perfect and not commit any sins??

Can you read and understand this sentence:  "FOLKS,  there is a difference between making minor mistakes and choosing to commit major sins."

Does that say "christians should be perfect"?

you must stop worrying about what another man does.  man will always fail you.  no man is perfect.  and everytime you read about some awful deed another christian has done, it just adds fuel to your fire.

I should stop worrying about it?  These are the same self righteous people i see every day on TV damning everything non-christian.  Man is perfect, man is GOD's creation...  90% of the sins yiou find in the Bible are not sins, but rather tools to control other men through guilt and fire and brimstone and fear of GOD.

An awful deed another christian has done?  THese are CHRISTIAN LEADERS for heavens sake.  It's like if BUSH passed military secrets to Al Queda.

God will deal with those people who kill, rape, drive drunk and kill familys, abuse children.  etc...
it is not your job to judge those people. 

It's not my job?  But it's other christian's job to judge people, to decide the will of GOD?  I can't tell how many times i've seen a christian telling another person they will burn in hell for something minor like looking at beautiful woman or damning someone becuase they choose an alternative lifestyle....who are you to judge, who are they to judge from GOD's chair?

I'm judging them becuase they don't practice what they preach, they don;t follow the BIBLE word for word.

Again:

Christians need to act more like christians!

[loco]

Christians need to act more like christians!

Ozmo,
Please explain what this means without sarcasm.  How should a Christian live?  Are Christians supposed to be perfect and follow the Bible word by word?  Honestly, just tell me what you expect from Christians. 

This thread started out saying that Christians do good and avoid evil, but only out of fear of hell.  We established that Christians are not afraid of hell.  So now you insist that Christians are evil because they do not fear hell.  So which is it?  Make up your mind.

You said that 70% of all Christians are evil.  What about the other 30%?  Are they good?  Do you know any Christians who are not evil or hypocrites?  Have you ever heard of George Muller and everything that he did for other people?  How about Dietrich Bonhoeffer?  Come on, look them up and read about them and what they did.  These Christian men gave their life to the service of God and others.  What motivated them?  Jesus Christ.  I don't see you saying anything about these men.  Instead, you pick on the preacher who raped some child.

Why are you so angry, bitter and hateful toward Christians?  Did something happen to you or was something done to you?  I'm just trying to understand where your anger and hatred comes from.  Your anger and bitterness hurts only yourself.  You are no better than these evil "Christians" you judge and accuse.

[mightymouse72]

Ozmo,
Please explain what this means without sarcasm.  How should a Christian live?  Are Christians supposed to be perfect and follow the Bible word by word?  Honestly, just tell me what you expect from Christians. 

This thread started out saying that Christians do good and avoid evil, but only out of fear of hell.  We established that Christians are not afraid of hell.  So now you insist that Christians are evil because they do not fear hell.  So which is it?  Make up your mind.

You said that 70% of all Christians are evil.  What about the other 30%?  Are they good?  Do you know any Christians who are not evil or hypocrites?  Have you ever heard of George Muller and everything that he did for other people?  How about Dietrich Bonhoeffer?  Come on, look them up and read about them and what they did.  These Christian men gave their life to the service of God and others.  What motivated them?  Jesus Christ.  I don't see you saying anything about these men.  Instead, you pick on the preacher who raped some child.

Why are you so angry, bitter and hateful toward Christians?  Did something happen to you or was something done to you?  I'm just trying to understand where your anger and hatred comes from.  Your anger and bitterness hurts only yourself.  You are no better than these evil "Christians" you judge and accuse.

could not have said it better myself. 

[loco]

so basically someone could live his entire life killing, robbing, raping and minutes before he dies he can accept God into his heart and he will be sitting in heaven next to some of his victims.

Not necessarily.  Accepting God will not save him.  Even demons believe in God.  He must accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour.  He must sincerely believe that Jesus died in his place for all his sins, killing, robbing, raping, etc.  But he will go to hell if he does not sincerely repent and truly believe in Jesus Christ minutes before he dies.  God cannot be fooled.  The Lord looks at the heart. 

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked

1 Samuel 16:7
the LORD looks at the heart

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder

Luke 23:39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence?
We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

he will be sitting in heaven next to some of his victims

Only if those victims believed in Jesus Christ

while some poor mother in Africa who was never introduced to western christianity who spent her entire life working her fingers to the bone from sun up to sun down all while raising two kids who are always near death will go to hell. god is good.

This poor mother in Africa may not have killed, robbed and raped, but she is still not without sin, nobody is.

Romans 3:10
"There is no one righteous, not even one"

Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

If this poor mother in Africa dies never having heard about Jesus Christ, then don't worry.  God will deal with her with love and with justice.  Leave that to God.  I would not worry about her if I were you, but I would worry about your own soul.  You have heard the good news about Jesus Christ dying for your sins.  So you are without excuse. 

If you are so truly concerned about this woman, then believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.  Then go to Africa and preach the gospel to her so that she too may believe and be saved.  I would not be saved today if it wasn't for Southern Baptist missionaries who selflessly gave up their comfortable, fancy lives in the US and moved to my country to preach the gospel.

Matthew 28:19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

[loco]

Most of the Bible is gibberish with some very great passages of GoD's word,

OzmO,
You've been saying for weeks that ALL of the Bible is gibberish written by mere men and that none of it is the truth and that none of it is God's word.  You also have been criticizing the Godly men who compiled the Bible that we have today.  Now you are saying that MOST, not all of the Bible is gibberisth.  Now you are saying that some of it is God's word, that some of it is the truth.  Which is it? 

So which part of the Bible is God's word and which part isn't?  Who decides that?  You?  What makes you better and more qualified to decide what is God's word than the men you criticise for compiling the Bible?

[loco]

why did god create us?

For His pleasure.
Revelation 4:11
"Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created."

Colossians 1:16
"All things were created by Him and for Him."

For the same reason that some people decide to have children and love them, raise them, teach them, discipline them, provide for them, give them good things.  Even some people who do not want to and will not have children often entertain the idea of having a little "mini me" running around the house.  It's in our nature just as much as it is in God's nature, to create/procreate new life. 

Matthew 7:11
If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Hebrews 12:7
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

Matthew 5:45
that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

[Colossus_500]

OzmO,

I'm just curious.  From what means do you base your knowledge of how Christians are "supposed" to behave?  Since you call the Bible a bunch of gibberish, I'd like to know from what source you use to base your opinions.  It sounds like you've put your pastor friend on a pedestal that he never belonged on.  Church members tend to do this with their pastors.  And so it is with non-believers (I'm not convinced that you've given your heart totally to Christ yet, especially based on your hatred and bitterness towards others who are believers).  The Christian you seek out "DOES NOT EXIST", bro.  It seems like the deeper we delve into the topic of Christian behavior and the legitimacy of the Bible, you get more and more furious.

[ToxicAvenger]

 

the only perfect man that ever lived was nailed to a cross.

thats YOUR opinion..frankly..if some ijit came rambling about some trinity told you he ws god NOW A DAYS...what would u do...

you'd also call the police on him.....be honest..yeah u would...


me..i'd rather nail his ass 2 a cross..

[ToxicAvenger]

so basically someone could live his entire life killing, robbing, raping and minutes before he dies he can accept God into his heart and he will be sitting in heaven next to some of his victims. while some poor mother in Africa who was never introduced to western christianity who spent her entire life working her fingers to the bone from sun up to sun down all while raising two kids who are always near death will go to hell. god is good.

not in islam.whic is why i always say..if i actually believe in god..i'd consider the religion...

in islam the african woman goes to heaven..and u go to hell...

[a_joker10]

not in islam.whic is why i always say..if i actually believe in god..i'd consider the religion...

in islam the african woman goes to heaven..and u go to hell...

What makes you think you know God's will.

Also how come you can go to heaven for killing non-believers.

Islam as taught by Imams that spew hate is a vile religion.

Maybe you can explain to me why apostasy is still relevant in Muslim ruled countries.

[OzmO]

OzmO,
You've been saying for weeks that ALL of the Bible is gibberish written by mere men and that none of it is the truth and that none of it is God's word. 

Do you have trouble reading also?  I'm not going to take the time to quote my own words that have said on many occasions, included in this very thread, that I believe the BIBLE contains the word of GOD just not every word.

It's shit like this, twisting of words, or lack of reading ability, that's common among the overly righteous.

OzmO,
  You also have been criticizing the Godly men who compiled the Bible that we have today.   

Do you know these people who wrote the BIBLE?  Tell me every person who wrote every book in it.  Do you know these people personally?  Do you know their motivations for writing what they wrote and under what conditions they wrote it?  Could you repeat word for word with 100% accuracy 35 sentences someone said 30 years ago that you heard once?

And then theirs good 'ole PAUL with his hatred for anything female.  lol

Women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands?  You have any idea how much shit that has caused females over the ages?  GOD wants this?  no way.

OzmO,
 Now you are saying that some of it is God's word, that some of it is the truth.  Which is it? 

It's mostly gibberish.

So which part of the Bible is God's word and which part isn't?  Who decides that?  You?  What makes you better and more qualified to decide what is God's word than the men you criticise for compiling the Bible?

What parts aren't the of GOD are pretty easy to figure out considering it was written by man.  Use this as a rule of thumb:  Anything written that promotes control indirectly or directly other then the commandments.

[OzmO]

OzmO,

I'm just curious.  From what means do you base your knowledge of how Christians are "supposed" to behave?  Since you call the Bible a bunch of gibberish, I'd like to know from what source you use to base your opinions.  It sounds like you've put your pastor friend on a pedestal that he never belonged on.  Church members tend to do this with their pastors.  And so it is with non-believers (I'm not convinced that you've given your heart totally to Christ yet, especially based on your hatred and bitterness towards others who are believers).  The Christian you seek out "DOES NOT EXIST", bro.  It seems like the deeper we delve into the topic of Christian behavior and the legitimacy of the Bible, you get more and more furious.

My point with my pastor firend has nothing to do with a pedestal.  My point is that IF his belief  in GOD (or inversley his anger at GOD)is the only thing keeping from commiting sins means that in his heart he never choose not to commit the sin.  So is he truely doing living with GOD in his heart?  NO.  If he really felt those things were a sin he'd not choose to do it regardless of GOD.  THAT's truely living with GOD in your heart.

Now for the PERFECT christian explanation  for you and loco and why i have a problems with many christians (this is just an explanation not an accusation  )

-  What i don;t care for is THUMPERS.  People that are happy to quote scriptures, telling people what's right and wrong beyond the ten commandments.  Most of them are easy to judge people and automatically say they will go to hell and display pity for non-christains.

-  what's even worse are the THUMPERS who "Choose" to commit sins.  The key word here is "CHOOSE".  Christiainity encourages people not to be accountable for their actions and these type pf thumpers repeatedly choose to commit sins.

-  Then there's the thumpers, with their self righteous bullshit who do not follow the bible word for word but can quote it exactly when it comes to telling someone else they are sinning.  They interpret it to their convenience.  They are hypocrites.

Are people Perfect?  As far as GOD's creation i believe they are.  It's all the "sins" in the bible that were written by men that make them unperfect.    Take that out of the equation and you have mostly good natured, friendly, loving people.  It's the long list of bull shit sins that's make it impossible not to sin.  And then set the stage for guilt driven control.

Are there perfect christiains?  YES!  Perfect in the sense of following the 10 commandments.  But if you are going to judge other people then you must live by those judgements and that's where i have most of my problems when i see these supposed christains running around doing thing like that pasotr did when he bought meth and had sex with a man. 

That's why i say christiains shold act more like christains.  Remember what that guy did is very telling of many many christains when it comes to choosing to commit sins,  not the stupid ones..... the bigger ones.  Like lusting after a pretty woman, or having gay sex.  Remember:

HE choose to do that. 

Or are you saying his desire for another man was something he couldn't help? 

That would bring us to whether or not homo-sexuality is a choice huh?  HAHAHAHAHAH

[mightymouse72]

Christiainity encourages people not to be accountable for their actions

you have absolutely no knowledge of christianity.  none, zero, nothing, zip.

why have a battle of wits with and unarmed "man"??

[OzmO]

you have absolutely no knowledge of christianity.  none, zero, nothing, zip.

why have a battle of wits with and unarmed "man"??

Well intended, even with an over used cliche'


Mighty.............  answer me this:

If a man accepts jesus as his savior can he sin and still go to heaven? Yes or no?

Becuase if it's yes (and it is) , then maybe i I'll go an kill someone and not worry about a single thing. 

BTW,  i have far more knowledge of Christainity than you.

BTW,  God loves you.  just don't make a gold calf becuase he might order someone to kill your child.

[ToxicAvenger]

What makes you think you know God's will.

Also how come you can go to heaven for killing non-believers.

Islam as taught by Imams that spew hate is a vile religion.

Maybe you can explain to me why apostasy is still relevant in Muslim ruled countries.

whats apostasy??


you dont go to heaven for killing non believers..lmao....stop listening to these dumb fucks..and read the damn book and see for yourselves..

[loco]

Do you have trouble reading also?  I'm not going to take the time to quote my own words that have said on many occasions, included in this very thread, that I believe the BIBLE contains the word of GOD just not every word.

It's shit like this, twisting of words, or lack of reading ability, that's common among the overly righteous.

Previous posts from you had let me to believe that you were a good natured, intelligent, civilized person.  Now your true self comes out.  You are one bitter, touchy, hateful individual.  I suppose your intentions are to offend me and all other Christians.  No offense taken.  It's okay, you don't know any better.

[OzmO]

Previous posts from you had let me to believe that you were a good natured, intelligent, civilized person.  Now your true self comes out.  You are one bitter, touchy, hateful individual.  I suppose your intentions are to offend me and all other Christians.  No offense taken.  It's okay, you don't know any better.

classic.

Saying i think the  "none of it" is gods words is an big point in this debate.  And putting words in a person's mouth and crtitisizing him for those words is a pathetic tactic and then replying with insults for calling you it is even more classic.  lol

Can't even admit a mistake can you oh righteous one?  I suppose you feel you are "justified by faith?"  lol

Oh the righteous............... ..  lol

I suppose you'll follow it up woth another statement laced with pity.   THUMP  THUMP

[Dos Equis]

Ozmo you do sound pretty bitter and angry. 

[The Master]

Ozmo you do sound pretty bitter and angry. 

He's just having a normal reaction to a stupid poster. Loco has obviously never heard of rational thought in any discussion.

[OzmO]

Ozmo you do sound pretty bitter and angry. 

Well, if i do sound bitter an angry it's probably the way i'm trying to to put an "edge" on my debate responses.  It's hard to do with written words.     Also, when i was writing most of those posts i was reminded of the many condeming thumpers i've had the pleasure of dealing over the years.  So you may be right.  But I'm not bitter an angry.  Maybe just overly aggressive.