The myth of the "cutting drugs"...discuss

[Arnold jr]

All I'm gonna say is some of us love our food.. this is why I've never competed even though I've been aproached by friends, other competitors and pro's to compete and get on stage.. I look at it this way, I would rather look GREAT eating the way I do (everything in sight!) then look incredible but starving myself and living in misery. Hell when I'm on I rely on clen/eca/t3/nolva  and to be honest , I don't give a rat's ass, I'll never starve myself or deprive myself of something like a lasagna or mashed potatoes with corn and chicken breast.. And as far as cutting drugs, there's no arguement that there are drugs that naturally make you more ripped and leaner, while others make you bulkier and thicker.. yes you can sort of get around it by eating different (ie. eating clean while taking dbol and adrol) but why reinvent the wheel? things are a certain way for a reason.

You're right, there are drugs that make you leaner, but AAS do not have fat burning characteristics. Some AAS will make you harder, but you're only harder looking if you're at a low BF%.

As far as "really" dieting down hardcore style, it might not be as miserable as you think. Look at it like this, anytime there is something you want, you almost always have to make some sort of sacrifice, but when you truly want that "thing" whatever it is, then the 'sacrifice" doesn't seem nearly as bad. If you told yourself you had to eat on a contest diet for 16wks just because, yeah, that would suck about as much suck as you can imagine...but if and when there is a purpose behind it, whatever that might be, then it's so much easier.

[trab]

I think when your a bit older you guys will change that "AAS dont have fat burning effect" tune a little.

Ive a hard time getin fat or gain weight, but off AAS these days at 47yrs, I need be much more particular what I shovel down, or I will add some belly fat.

But On testo, I can still eat ANYTHING. Same as when i was a kid.

For me, I think it helps tip ballance to burn some fat.

[D-bol]

trab
you're right
although it prolly is not the fat burning effect but increased metabolism that test gives you, so that the calories you absorb are utilized instead of being stored
trab, there is a belief that aas are safer and maybe even more effective after 40 when your natural rates slow down
what is your take on that?

[Rimbaud]

Bump.

[Mega Man]

Anavar and Fat Loss

http://www.steroid.com/Anavar.php

Now here´s some interesting stuff for anyone interested primarily in the fat loss properties of this stuff: Anavar may be what we´d call a "fat-burning steroid". Abdominal and visceral fat were both reduced in one study when subjects in the low/normal natural testosterone range used anavar (4). In another study, appendicular, total, and trunk fat were all reduced with a relatively small dose of 20mgs/day (, and no exercise. In addition, weight gained with ´var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you´ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight (re)gains from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (2)! Concomitantly, in another study, Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat were also sustained (! If you´re regaining weight, Anavar will give you nearly permanent gains, and if you are trying to lose fat (and you keep your diet in check), the fat lost with Anavar is basically looks to be nearly permanent. Check this chart out:

Absolute change in total fat mass (A) and trunk fat (B) by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry from baseline to study week 12 (solid bars) and from baseline to study week 24 (open bars) in the placebo (n = 12) and the oxandrolone (n = 20) study groups. Values are means ± SE. *Significant decrease from baseline, P < 0.001. Significant difference between study groups for change in fat mass from 0 to 12 wk, P < 0.001. (15)(

http://www.steroid.com/Anavar.php

[Tapeworm]

That sounds like they gave var only to those guys, so the benefit of the var outweighed their T supression and they made some small progress.  After stopping the var, their T levels would have rebounded which helped them keep those small gains. 

I think it would be a different story if you stacked var with T injects.  You'd still get benefits from the var, but it would be unrealistic to expect to keep 100% of your cycle gains just because there was var in the mix.

[busyB]

Man, these were the days where we actually had long replies and good discussions in this thread. 

I miss those days.

[Arnold jr]

Man, these were the days where we actually had long replies and good discussions in this thread. 

I miss those days.

Yeah I agree...its been suckin balls around here the past couple months.

[candidizzle]

im not sure if i understand why you cant keep 100% of your gains. if you eat enough, there should be no reason for your body to break down your muscle, right? 

[Arnold jr]

im not sure if i understand why you cant keep 100% of your gains. if you eat enough, there should be no reason for your body to break down your muscle, right? 

If you come off and stay off for a long time it's just not possible. It takes many long cycles, staying on for long periods of time with short breaks to really change your body...basically it takes a long time to cheat homeostasis.

Eventually you do begin to break those barriers and when you come off things don't initially fall back to where they were. But in time they will, I guarantee it...that is unless you continue the whole process of hardcoreness, lol!

[thelamefalsehood]

I think when your a bit older you guys will change that "AAS dont have fat burning effect" tune a little.

Ive a hard time getin fat or gain weight, but off AAS these days at 47yrs, I need be much more particular what I shovel down, or I will add some belly fat.

But On testo, I can still eat ANYTHING. Same as when i was a kid.

For me, I think it helps tip ballance to burn some fat.

Has anyone heard from Trab? He was a really cool guy, very insightful and helpful to all here. Can a Mod or someone in the know ask him to come back for the sake of the board?

[Arnold jr]

Has anyone heard from Trab? He was a really cool guy, very insightful and helpful to all here. Can a Mod or someone in the know ask him to come back for the sake of the board?

My understanding is that some one on here pissed him off pretty bad...sent him a virus is what I'm told. Maybe he'll come back but form what I hear he's pretty fed up with this place.

[Emmortal]

My understanding is that some one on here pissed him off pretty bad...sent him a virus is what I'm told. Maybe he'll come back but form what I hear he's pretty fed up with this place.

Yea, he's not coming back any time soon if ever.

[Tapeworm]

Shit.    Trab was a good dude.  Very friendly and willing to give advice, and plenty of experience.

[DIVISION]

My understanding is that some one on here pissed him off pretty bad...sent him a virus is what I'm told. Maybe he'll come back but form what I hear he's pretty fed up with this place.

How did someone give Trab a virus?

Is this forum drama?   


DIV

[Slintowin4424]

A while back, some friends of mine did an interesting study.  We would always here about how you need to bulk with EQ/DECA/A-Bombs/ ect, and cut with Winny/Tren/prop/var....blah blah blah....words words words....


So one day some guy comes out of the woodwork and kicks everyones ass at a local show.  He is from nowhere, CA, and ices like the best in the area.

He's actually not that bright, and bales hay on a farm in Northern Cali....He is not educated, but is super friendly, so we hit him up and took him out for dinner that night since he didn't know anyone in town.

Guy was 509, came in at 218.  Dry.

That's big for an amatuer.  It's actually huge.  The guy had no water, so he prob around 228 ripped.  The guys waist was like 27 inches.  He was phenomenal. 

Come to find out, he didn't know a steroid from a hemorrhoid.  He was a serious bumpkin, with not a stitch of science in his head.  So we ask him about his contest prep we are expecting to hear "Yeah bro, Winny/Tren/  Blah blah blah.....

He says, "Well, I could only get Anadrol, Testosterone Cypionate, and Deca Durabolin.  I just did it for 12 weeks.  I only had two jars of the Anadrol so I ran it close to the show."

We almost fell out of out chairs at TGIF's,,,,,

Guy ran bulking shit...but watched his diet including salt, and kept nolvadex on to watch the water. 

The best part.........

He couldn't get a diuretic so he cut all his fluid intake like a day and half out....LOL, the guy was like ready to keel over the whole time.  But he had more veins in his stomach than the others guys did in their arms....

Anyway, I found more examples of that as I entered/attended more shows...Lots of guys don't know shit about gear....Don't know "cutting" from "bulking" yet they control what they look like through diet/cardio.  I think we need to stop relying on gear to "cut" or "bulk" and focus on training and food.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that some gear is better than others for losing/gaining weight....but they are not miracle pills......So lets kick off the thread without having to state that.

Please remember anadrol for cutting d bol for bulking but check out the thread I started called my experiment

[Rimbaud]

BUMP