Who was the better Van Halen frontman?

[natural al]

from thier appearance on the jon stewart show in august of 95 right around the last time I saw them before the split.  check out the ending jam, it kicks ass.

[bmacsys]

I love Eddie, his music was the soundtrack to my life, but for the record, he is CERTIFIABLE.  He went on record as saying his throat cancer had nothing to do with smoking two packs a day and drinking like a sailor for 30 years, but rather had to do with the electromagnetic field in his studio conducting off a guitar pick in his mouth.  Monster pathological.

Guitar picks are plastic. They aren't conductive. The guy is a nut. Anybody who gets his tongue cut off them pick up the deathsticks again is a nutjob.

[bmacsys]

yeah, i heard all the stuff ed is saying now.  Ed didn't start getting really wierd until Ed Lefler died in 94.  Lefler was the bands manager for most of the Hagar run.  Once Lefler died they got a guy named Ray Daniels..if you even say his name on VH message boards people loose thier minds.  he's credited for destroying VH, he drove Sam out, messed with DAve and brought in Gary.  After VHIII failed ed went really nuts.  What he was saying on stern pissed me off pretty bad, I don't know why but refusing to refer to mike as Mike Anthony and calling him sobeliewski-sp-really pissed me off.

The manager brought in Cherone? Wouldn't Eddie and Alex make that decision? What is a "sobeliewski" Makes you wonder if these guys in bands really ever have true friendships or it was just 4 guys playing together since they were kids?

[natural al]

The manager brought in Cherone? Wouldn't Eddie and Alex make that decision? What is a "sobeliewski" Makes you wonder if these guys in bands really ever have true friendships or it was just 4 guys playing together since they were kids?

sobeliewski is Mike Anthony's real name.  Ed is all caught up in Sammy selling his Cabo Wabo Tequila and Mike makes a Hot sauce.  One of the stipulations of the last tour was that they couldn't sell the stuff at van halen shows, problem was some of the venue's were already selling it so Ed lost his mind a couple of times.  Ed kept on calling Mike by sauce sobeliewski in the stern interveiws and said he doesn't care what sobeliewski does cause he ain't in van halen anymore.

Ed's a pretty easy guy to manipulate and Daniels had alot to do with cherone being in the band.  There's a guy out there named Mitch Malloy who was originally going to replace sammy.  He says ed told him he was in the band and next thing he knew he was out and Gary was in.  Ed's said in alot of interviews that when he first heard Gary's audition tape he thought it was a joke it was so bad but Daniels insisted that he come down to the studio and spend a couple of days with the guys...then poof!!  Gary was the best thing since sliced bread according to Ed.

Sass Jordan was supposed to be in the band after Sam also but it fell through....

[Earl1972]

Earl,

I hate to keep busting your balls man, but saying Sammy Hagar is the better front man of Van Halen is tantamount to telling the world you love teh cock.

you bust my balls because I own you

liking hagar over david lee means I have better taste

E

[Bindare_Dundat]

Sass Jordan was supposed to be in the band after Sam also but it fell through....

Sass Jordan jammed with the guys but even according to her, she was never suppose to be in the band.

[natural al]

more on Ray daniels.

Ed Lefler died in 1993, I believe right after the end of the Right Here Right Now World Tour.  Van Halen had released 3 straight number one cd's with Sammy and a top 5 double platnium live album.  things get really fucked up at this point.  Sam was getting a divorce and his wife at the time wanted half of everything he had.  About that time Geffen records approached Sam to do a greatest hits of his geffen era stuff.  Sam agreed to record 2 new songs for 500,000 which he used to pay his wife off, she agreed to a lump sum payement-I think it was 500,000, I'd have to go back and reread a bunch of interviews so if the number is wrong, sue me.  you get the point.

Anyway Sam records High Hopes and Buying My Way Into Heaven for his Unboxed collection.  Supposedly Ed and Al had a big problem with this and thought Hagar was either testing the waters to be a solo artist or he was making money behind the bands back.  The band was also looking at new management and a bunch of big name managers were in the mix.  The guy that managed aerosmith was one of sammy's choices.  Sam figured a VH-Aerosmith combo would be unbeatable, they were 2 of the top acts in hard rock at the time.  Something happened that freaked that guy out and he pulled out of the running-I think Ed flipped out and shaved his head while the guy was with him-remember Ed had short hair for Balance.  Then Ed and Al started pushing Daniels, Sam had heard horror stories about the guy.  People at MTV didn't like him and I believe Ed lefler even told Sam don't let that guy manage you guys if I go.  they fought about it for a little while and Ed and Al won.  Ray rewrote stuff on thier contract so he started getting royalties for all the stuff VH had done.....he got royalties for stuff he had nothing to do with.  REmember in 95 all these "vintage" vh shirts started showing up?  

anyway the band starts recording Balance and there were alot of problems, Sam had his publishing done seperatly so Ray Daniels wouldn't get any share of his money.  

VH releases balance and does a world tour, huge in the US but played second fiddle to Bon Jovi in Europe.  The tour is very long and hard ont he band.  Alex ends up having neck problems-if you see the PPV special they did you can see him wearing a neck brace.  Ed's hip is trashed and he's "sober" for the first time on tour.  Sam is sick for alot of the tour.  For the first time the band travels seprerate and has seperate dressing rooms, sam and mike in one and ed and al in another.  Videos get no airplay on MTV...

the tour ended and the band was supposed to take a break so Ed coudl get a hip replacement and Al coudl let his neck heal.  Sam got remarried and got his new wife pregnant somewhere in there.....

anyway Sam gets a call that the band wants to do 2 songs for the movei Twister.  They record 2 songs, actually 3...humans being-which was originally recorded as The Silent Extreme and another song called Between Us Two.  Ed didn't like Sam's lyrics for between us two and told him if he didn't resing them he'd consider Sam out of the band.  Sam flew in-he was in hawaii with his wife who was 8 months pregnant with a breech baby and re did them.  Then he found out that Between Us Two was being pulled off of Twister for a greatest hits CD......

anyway Ed then called up Sammy on Fathers day of 1996 and depending on who you believe fired sam or sam quit, sam says ed was drunk off his ass....I believe SAm

that's a very condesned version and Ray had alot to do with the downfall of VH....it would take me days to type out everything that i know about this stuff..or that I've read and believe to be true, Mike anthony confirmed some stuff earlier this year in a japaneese interview..

[natural al]

Sass Jordan jammed with the guys but even according to her, she was never suppose to be in the band.

I've read 2 or 3 different things about that... I've heard that Ed told her if she didn't have tits she would have been in VH...I've heard that Alex wanted to work with her from a production standpoint....I thought I heard her say the thing about the tits...this was a few years ago so I might be wrong.

[natural al]

http://www.guitars101.com/vb/music-hall/22489-sammy-hagar-book-excerpts-chapters-19-20-a.html

these are 2 chapters from a book Sam supposedly did a few years ago.  Lots of VH stuff plus if you register they have a ton of VH bootlegs you can download.

[Bindare_Dundat]

http://www.guitars101.com/vb/music-hall/22489-sammy-hagar-book-excerpts-chapters-19-20-a.html

these are 2 chapters from a book Sam supposedly did a few years ago.  Lots of VH stuff plus if you register they have a ton of VH bootlegs you can download.

And after all that, Sammy still did a reunion tour with Van Halen so what does that say about him?

[natural al]

And after all that, Sammy still did a reunion tour with Van Halen so what does that say about him?

depends.  He said when he found out ed had cancer he decided they should do it one last time for the fans.  He met with alex and everything was great, no hard feelings between the 2.  It was good when he talked to Ed initially as well.  Things went to shit pretty quickly but the wheels were already in motion......

Sam still says things are good betwen him and Alex and sam and Mike get along real well...seems like Ed is the problem...

[Grundle]

Just watched that "Catherine" studio cut on Youtube. My god, Ed is destroying his legacy with this kind of mediocrity! Lol at the comment "that's it Ed, smoke that cancer away!".

[AVBG]

Just watched that "Catherine" studio cut on Youtube. My god, Ed is destroying his legacy with this kind of mediocrity! Lol at the comment "that's it Ed, smoke that cancer away!".

whats the link?

[Grundle]

whats the link?

Just type "catherine" and eddie van halen, should come up on Youtube.

[natural al]

Just watched that "Catherine" studio cut on Youtube. My god, Ed is destroying his legacy with this kind of mediocrity! Lol at the comment "that's it Ed, smoke that cancer away!".

one of the funnier things in that video is when they show Ed playing the drums.....I'm pretty sure it's a drum machine there ed....

[Grundle]

Al, as I'm sure your well aware, Patty Smith was Ed's first choice to replace Dave after the breakup.

[njflex]

When thing's were rosy between ed and hagar they were neighbor's and vh for three albulm's 5150 to f.u.c.k were like 4 gradeschooler's smiling,prank's ,busting horn's,then balance and all the fighting after and the dismissal or quitting?GARY CHERONE had no right being in van halan,his crap band extreme could not touch vh.the right thing was too let the 96 dlr attemt,and twister and greatest hit's run it's course and regroup,but no 10 year's they reform for reunion,i went it had it's moment's but too little too late.they all seemed to be playing just not together,like a high priced garage band.their legacy is cemented,it's just a bit cracked

[Bindare_Dundat]

Extreme sucked but Nuno was an awsome guitar player.

[natural al]

Al, as I'm sure your well aware, Patty Smith was Ed's first choice to replace Dave after the breakup.

yeah, I heard that for years.  Ed supposedly had a huge "crush" on her, not sure how that would have worked out with Val and everything, probably not very well.

When thing's were rosy between ed and hagar they were neighbor's and vh for three albulm's 5150 to f.u.c.k were like 4 gradeschooler's smiling,prank's ,busting horn's,then balance and all the fighting after and the dismissal or quitting?GARY CHERONE had no right being in van halan,his crap band extreme could not touch vh.the right thing was too let the 96 dlr attemt,and twister and greatest hit's run it's course and regroup,but no 10 year's they reform for reunion,i went it had it's moment's but too little too late.they all seemed to be playing just not together,like a high priced garage band.their legacy is cemented,it's just a bit cracked

I'm pretty sure Ed fired Sam.  With the 04 tour it was either hit or miss depending on how drunk Eddie was.  I've never heard anyone say a bad word on how Alex or Mike played.  You get the hardcore DLR fans that rag sammy but aside from them he got pretty high marks for the tour.  Ed started off really well from the bootlegs that i have but around the mid-way part the shows started to get really iffy.  There is a boot of the last show of the tour and the title was supposed to be "a tale of 2 eddie's" because they have the soundcheck and eddie is right on then when they start the actual show you can't tell what the hell he's playing half the time, at the end he smashes his guitar and says something into the microphone aimed at Mike and Sam..you can't really make it out but people have said that he says "because of you two van halen is dead" or something like that...look for the clip on youtube.

[njflex]

natural al.i thought i liked vh and knew alot,u got me beat .i lost my way a bit ,i still enjoy all their music exceptVH3,that's where van halen jumped the shark.i have never ,ever listened to that cd,this is a great topic and all post's well written and read.u could see eddie's anger and disdain start in 96 interview after the mtv dlr debacle when roth was clowning and making face's when they were introduced,eddie said next time he make's a fool of me he better be wearing a cup.supposedly roth made it about him and not all of vh.the stone's individually are all over the place too,but touring they can on stage work it together,can vh do it.

[natural al]

natural al.i thought i liked vh and knew alot,u got me beat .i lost my way a bit ,i still enjoy all their music exceptVH3,that's where van halen jumped the shark.i have never ,ever listened to that cd,this is a great topic and all post's well written and read.u could see eddie's anger and disdain start in 96 interview after the mtv dlr debacle when roth was clowning and making face's when they were introduced,eddie said next time he make's a fool of me he better be wearing a cup.supposedly roth made it about him and not all of vh.the stone's individually are all over the place too,but touring they can on stage work it together,can vh do it.

Dave told ed backstage after a reporter asked ed about his hip "tonight's about me man, not about your f'n hip" and that's when Ed told him he better be wearing a cup.

could they go onstage and pull it off?  The shows in 04 were hit or miss, depending on how drunk Ed was.  Sam, Mike and Al all played real well every night.  Dave in a reality can't sing like he used to, I've seen him a bunch of times and I never really got all excited by him, it's not 1984 anymore...or 1986..to me Dave's act is old and tired.  Bottom line if you put Ed and Dave together for an extended period of time it's gonna blow up, might be a week, might be a month but it's gonna happen.   they couldn't stand each other on the 84 tour and they made it through, I don't think it would be that way today.  It's a disaster waiting to happen.

[njflex]

I want to appreciate their greatness as a whole act,not a alex ,eddie and whoever on bass and vocal's.roth if he is focused and not just on the paycheck could do ok,sing/talk his way thru,partying is not his problem he was never an addict.eddie on the other hand is shot and it really is upsetting for all his talent ,in the 80's the whole party band thing is fun and too a teenager a cool image ,but closing in on fifty it is called killing yourself slowly .i saw the reunion and liked it ,in jersey though the first 8 song's the p.a at the meadowland's was literally shrieking,second half show was great ,but it ended and i was like 10year's for this and over,i leave a u2 show and i am spent ,their energy is unreal and the crowd embraces them like they know them their whole lives.u2 is my other favorite band,i've followed them as long as vh.2 totally different animals,but the music still hit's u.

[Bindare_Dundat]

yeah, I heard that for years.  Ed supposedly had a huge "crush" on her, not sure how that would have worked out with Val and everything, probably not very well.


I'm pretty sure Ed fired Sam.  With the 04 tour it was either hit or miss depending on how drunk Eddie was.  I've never heard anyone say a bad word on how Alex or Mike played.  You get the hardcore DLR fans that rag sammy but aside from them he got pretty high marks for the tour.  Ed started off really well from the bootlegs that i have but around the mid-way part the shows started to get really iffy.  There is a boot of the last show of the tour and the title was supposed to be "a tale of 2 eddie's" because they have the soundcheck and eddie is right on then when they start the actual show you can't tell what the hell he's playing half the time, at the end he smashes his guitar and says something into the microphone aimed at Mike and Sam..you can't really make it out but people have said that he says "because of you two van halen is dead" or something like that...look for the clip on youtube.

You can hear the same thing on So This Is Love in the Buenos Aires video with Dave. Ed's guitar playing sucks ass, most of his notes are way off, he must have been drunk as can be.

[Grundle]

You can hear the same thing on So This Is Love in the Buenos Aires video with Dave. Ed's guitar playing sucks ass, most of his notes are way off, he must have been drunk as can be.

So true.  For years, the conventional wisdom was that Dave being drunk and muffing lyrics was the biggest problem with the live show, but if you watch old concert footage, its clear Ed went onstage fahqed up plenty and sometimes just mangled songs.

[natural al]

So true.  For years, the conventional wisdom was that Dave being drunk and muffing lyrics was the biggest problem with the live show, but if you watch old concert footage, its clear Ed went onstage fahqed up plenty and sometimes just mangled songs.

Like I said, I've got literally hundreds of bootlegs and the really early stuff they sound really good on, pre VH1 is all good.  I thought everyone sucked on the US fest, I have a couple of shows from fair warnings and they're ok.  I've got 2 or 3 shows from 1984 and they're almost unlistenable at times, they're all audience recordings but they're terrible.  The band sounded alot better on the 5150 tour, I don't know if it was a different sound system or what.  I've also got Dave live in Fresno form 86 and it's good but I've got video from him in Detroit and it's terrible...bootlegs are pretty much all over the place.  Every recording I have from the FUCK and Balance tours are awsome sound wise....teh 04 tour is all over the place.  Dave was terrible in 94 but better in 02.  Sam has sounded great everytime I've seen him, he can't hit all the notes anymore but his voice is in pretty good shape....