Author Topic: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II  (Read 2383 times)

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Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« on: November 27, 2006, 08:45:50 AM »


AP
Sunday, November 26, 2006

NEW YORK The war in Iraq has now lasted longer than the U.S. involvement in the war that President Bush's father fought in, World War II.

As of Sunday, the conflict in Iraq has raged for three years and just over eight months.

Only the Vietnam War (eight years, five months), the Revolutionary War (six years, nine months), and the Civil War (four years) have engaged America longer.

Fighting in Afghanistan, which may or may not be a full-fledged war depending on who is keeping track, has gone on for five years, one month. It continues as the ousted Taliban resurges and the central government is challenged.

Bush says he still is undecided whether to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq or add to the 140,000 there now.

He is awaiting the conclusions of several top-to-bottom studies, including a military review by Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Expected soon, too, are recommendations from an outside blue-ribbon commission headed by former Secretary of State James Baker, a Republican close to the Bush family, and former Rep. Lee Hamilton, an Indiana Democrat who was one of the leaders of the Sept. 11 commission.

The Iraq war began on March 19, 2003, with the U.S. bombing of Baghdad. On May 1, 2003, Bush famously declared major combat operations over, the pronouncement coming in a speech aboard an aircraft carrier emblazoned with a "Mission Accomplished" banner.

Yet the fighting has dragged on, and most of the 2,800-plus U.S. military deaths have occurred after Bush suggested an end to what he called the Iraq front in the global fight against terrorism.

Politicians in both parties blame the increasingly unpopular war for GOP losses on Capitol Hill in the November elections that handed control of the House and Senate to Democrats.

Twice before in the last half-century have presidents — Harry S. Truman in Korea and Lyndon B. Johnson in Vietnam — been crippled politically by prolonged and unpopular wars.

Bush last week visited Vietnam for the first time, attending a summit of Asian and Pacific Rim nations. Asked if the Vietnam war held any messages for U.S. policy in Iraq, Bush said it showed that "we'll succeed unless we quit."

John Mueller, an Ohio State University political scientist who wrote the book "War, Presidents and Public Opinion," said Americans soured on Iraq after "doing a rough cost-benefit analysis. They say, 'What's it worth to us and how much is it costing us?'"

By that standard, Americans were willing to abandon the Iraq war long before they turned against the war in Vietnam, Mueller suggested. "So that, for example, when more than 2,000 Americans had died in Iraq, support lowered. It took 20,000 deaths in Vietnam to lower support for that war to the same level," he said.

In the casualty count, the Civil War was the most lethal, with military deaths of the North and South combined totaling at least 620,000. By comparison, the total for World War II was roughly 406,000; Vietnam, 58,000; Korea, 37,000; World War I, 116,000.

The outgoing Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Sen. John Warner of Virginia, a veteran of World War II and a former Navy secretary, noted solemnly at a recent hearing of his committee that Sunday would mark the day when U.S. was involved longer in the Iraq war than it had been in World War II.

Yet the October 2002 congressional resolution that authorized the Iraq war "addressed the Iraq of Saddam Hussein, which is now gone, and no more a threat to us," Warner said.

While the United States is helping Iraq's current government to assume the full reins of sovereignty, "we need to revise (our) strategy to achieve that goal," Warner said.

U.S. involvement in the Iraq war has outlasted that of the Korean War (three years, one month); the War of 1812 (two years, six months); the U.S.-Mexican War (one year, 10 months); World War I (one year, seven months); the Spanish American War (eight months); and the first Persian Gulf War (one and a half months).

Democrats and Republicans are divided about what to do next in Iraq.

Many Democrats and some Republicans have called for a phased withdrawal. Some lawmakers, including Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a 2008 presidential hopeful, are urging that more U.S. troops be sent to help stabilize Iraq.

Sen. Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who will be the next chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, argues for beginning to bring troops home soon. "We should put the responsibility for Iraq's future squarely where it belongs, on the Iraqis," Levin said. "We cannot save the Iraqis from themselves."

Experts of various political stripes have suggested that the options are few.

"No mix of options for U.S. action can provide a convincing plan for 'victory' in Iraq," said Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The initiative has passed into Iraqi hands."


a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2006, 08:52:56 AM »
The troops in Iraq would have to be there for another 60 years to be there as long as WWII by your definition of the war in Iraq.

American Troops in Europe 1942 to present. 64 years
American troops in Okinawa 1945 to present. 61 years
Troops in Iraq 2003 to present 3 years
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 08:56:13 AM »
The troops in Iraq would have to be there for another 60 years to be there as long as WWII by your definition of the war in Iraq.

American Troops in Europe 1942 to present. 64 years
American troops in Okinawa 1945 to present. 61 years
Troops in Iraq 2003 to present 3 years

It's actually the AP's definition.  The thread it titled "War has lasted".  WWII ended a while back, right?

buffbodz

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 09:00:07 AM »
With no end in sight.  What's your answer Rob?
6 meals lift heavy and 1/2 hr cardio

luike101

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 09:00:40 AM »
dollar,dollar bills yalll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

luike101

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 09:01:37 AM »
money,money,money,money,mon,mon,money

pumpster

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a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 09:03:23 AM »
It's actually the AP's definition.  The thread it titled "War has lasted".  WWII ended a while back, right?

That is their definition.
War against Hitler ended in 1945. Troops still in Europe. The Marshall plan and the protection of Europe is still going on.
War against Saddam  May 1 2003. Troops still in Iraq. Rebuilding Iraq and the dealing with the insurgency is still going on.

Why aren't Americans pissed that their troops in Okinawa and Europe aren't home.
Z

pumpster

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 09:04:37 AM »
dollar,dollar bills yalll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182


Time to abandon ship, after pronounced patience-they'll leave some bases in various areas. A civil war has to be sorted out by the constituents themselves, who seem determined to kill each other. It would help though, if they would finally get this "training" of Iraqi forces over with-how many years to do it when it could have been done the first two years?

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 09:05:07 AM »
Why aren't Americans pissed that their troops in Okinawa and Europe aren't home.

Because 3 to 4 US men do not die every day, and not a shot is fired.  We are occupying there, and engaged in hostile battle in Iraq.  jeez, I feel stupid trying to explain this to you.

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 09:10:55 AM »
Because 3 to 4 US men do not die every day, and not a shot is fired.  We are occupying there, and engaged in hostile battle in Iraq.  jeez, I feel stupid trying to explain this to you.

Shouldn't the troops stationed in Europe be in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Your statement was that Iraq war has lasted the same time, it obviously hasn't.
Now what about Korea. There are thousands of troops in Korea and North and South Korea are still at war.
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 09:11:45 AM »
With no end in sight.  What's your answer Rob?


The UN has offered to take over.  Send in a multinational force to secure the streets.  If indeed half of the fighters are killing because "they hate America", perhaps they'll settle down once they're firing at people whose cultures are closer to theirs.

Bring our troops home.  Put half on border/airport security.  Every plane will have 3 men on it, every mile of border will have 3 men on it.  No one dies, border problem fixed.

The other half of the men get busy on a new energy source for the US.  Solar, nuclear, wind, ethanol, whatever.  Find it.  that'd be 60,000 bright US military minds working feverishly on finding the next gasoline.  Close up the borders a bit and fix the export problem.  2% of our military is all we need to organize these new changes.  

Of course - and this is where half will stop reading - when the Bush family is worth billions in oil with the Saudis, and Cheney's company Haliburton is putting in all the infrastructure/pipeline in Iraq - you kinda get the feeling our leaders are personally motivated by something a little bigger than our soldiers' lives.

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 09:14:01 AM »
Shouldn't the troops stationed in Europe be in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Your statement was that Iraq war has lasted the same time, it obviously hasn't.
Now what about Korea. There are thousands of troops in Korea and North and South Korea are still at war.

You're playing word games.  officially these conflicts are not over, but not a bullet has been fired in 60 years. If you don't see the difference, you'd rather bury your nose in a book and let 5 soldiers die today, instead of seeing 5 men come home to their wife and kids, that's fine.  You sound like a 17year old kid with his social studies book, talking pompously about "well, technically, the war in Iraq and WWII are the same status" when in real life, they are obviously not.

You keep the outdated treaty talk, but I prefer the reality of things. 

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 09:22:48 AM »
What reality.
The fact is if America leaves Iraq right now. Things are going to be hell of a lot worse for everyone.
There are major problems in Iraq, like the Iraq government not wanting to deal with militias and insurgent groups infiltrating the military and police forces.
Only Iraq can solve these. However there must be some base level of security for civilians in Iraq until this happens.
America opened this up and must stick it out. By the way the although the causalities are sad, they are no way near the level of the other conflicts, WWII, Vietnam, or even Korea.
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 09:25:37 AM »
What reality.
The fact is if America leaves Iraq right now. Things are going to be hell of a lot worse for everyone.
There are major problems in Iraq, like the Iraq government not wanting to deal with militias and insurgent groups infiltrating the military and police forces.
Only Iraq can solve these. However there must be some base level of security for civilians in Iraq until this happens.
America opened this up and must stick it out. By the way the although the causalities are sad, they are no way near the level of the other conflicts, WWII, Vietnam, or even Korea.


PLEASE tell me why we shouldn't let the UN take over and do the exact thing we're doing?

They'll stay as long as needed, they'll do the exact same thing we're doing.  But the bloodshed won't be all american.  Please, can anyone fucking tell me why we're not accepting the UN's help? 

pumpster

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2006, 09:26:31 AM »
What reality.
The fact is if America leaves Iraq right now. Things are going to be hell of a lot worse for everyone.
There are major problems in Iraq, like the Iraq government not wanting to deal with militias and insurgent groups infiltrating the military and police forces.
Only Iraq can solve these. However there must be some base level of security for civilians in Iraq until this happens.
America opened this up and must stick it out. By the way the although the causalities are sad, they are no way near the level of the other conflicts, WWII, Vietnam, or even Korea.

Can't agree there-at a certain point if warlike tribes wanna kill each other to settle it, there's a limit to trying to show them common sense. Plenty of patience has already been shown, and the supposed majority of moderate Iraqis has NOT stepped up to beat down the killers.

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2006, 09:30:18 AM »
I have no idea why the UN isn't involved.
I agree with you. They took over the Kosovo mission, why not this one.

I think the main problem is the world is sick of GWB and if he wasn't so pompous about Iraq in the early going, people would be much more accommodating in helping him.

Can't agree there-at a certain point if warlike tribes wanna kill each other to settle it, there's a limit to trying to show them common sense. Plenty of patience has already been shown, and the supposed majority of moderate Iraqis has NOT stepped up to beat down the killers.

I agree Iraqi's must step up.
I watched 20/20 last night and they were talking  bout a major troop withdrawal so that Iraq has to be made more responsible for their own actions.
This is the same apporach America took in Afghanistan and has worked in some areas, but not all.
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2006, 11:33:58 AM »
That is their definition.
War against Hitler ended in 1945. Troops still in Europe. The Marshall plan and the protection of Europe is still going on.
War against Saddam  May 1 2003. Troops still in Iraq. Rebuilding Iraq and the dealing with the insurgency is still going on.

Why aren't Americans pissed that their troops in Okinawa and Europe aren't home.

Are you retarded?

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2006, 11:42:40 AM »
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2006, 12:19:15 PM »
Where am I wrong.

US soldiers have now been fighting in Iraq one day longer than they fought in WWII.

Jeez, some people can't see thru the forest for the trees.

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2006, 12:27:54 PM »
US soldiers have now been fighting in Iraq one day longer than they fought in WWII.

Jeez, some people can't see thru the forest for the trees.
True, but the War in Iraq ended in 2003.
The civil war and insurgency has been going on since then.
The cold war lasted for 54 years and included stops in Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan.

More then 100,000 Americans died in the cold war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

How many have died in the war on Terror.
3,100
Z

mightymouse72

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2006, 12:54:38 PM »
What reality.
The fact is if America leaves Iraq right now. Things are going to be hell of a lot worse for everyone.
There are major problems in Iraq, like the Iraq government not wanting to deal with militias and insurgent groups infiltrating the military and police forces.
Only Iraq can solve these. However there must be some base level of security for civilians in Iraq until this happens.
America opened this up and must stick it out. By the way the although the causalities are sad, they are no way near the level of the other conflicts, WWII, Vietnam, or even Korea.

very well said.  mucho applause. 
too many bleeding hearts these days.  they think if we bring all our troops home everyone will leave america alone.  sit around and pat theirselves on the back thinking they now live in peace. 

True, but the War in Iraq ended in 2003.
The civil war and insurgency has been going on since then.
The cold war lasted for 54 years and included stops in Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan.

More then 100,000 Americans died in the cold war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War

How many have died in the war on Terror.
3,100


joker, you are OK in my book. 
keep up the good work.
W

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2006, 02:11:53 PM »
It's so funny.  I used to be all about that, just like you guys. American Imperialism.  Fuck them all.

I don't feel that way anymore.  But if I did, I certainly wouldn't use the guise of "we're not at war anymore".  That makes you look silly, joker.  It seems everyone in the world still thinks the war in iraq is going on.  You should call them with your breakthrough that the war ended in 2003.

a_joker10

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2006, 02:26:25 PM »
It's so funny.  I used to be all about that, just like you guys. American Imperialism.  f**k them all.

I don't feel that way anymore.  But if I did, I certainly wouldn't use the guise of "we're not at war anymore".  That makes you look silly, joker.  It seems everyone in the world still thinks the war in iraq is going on.  You should call them with your breakthrough that the war ended in 2003.

I never said America is not at war, just that the war has changed.
You are not comparing the Iraq situation fairly.
The war against Saddam ended in 2003. Iraq has its own civil war going on now. These are not the same events even though you and many in the media want to tie them together.
One caused the other but they are not the same.
Much like WWII started the Cold War. Did you ever try too understand why America rushed into Germany even after the USSR took over Berlin or why after Japan left South Korea, America started to protect it.

Look into the topic of the Long war. It is as relevant today in the discussions on the war on terror as it was to describe the cold war.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/HomelandDefense/the-long-war.cfm


http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1710062,00.html
Z

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Re: Iraq War Has Now Lasted Longer Than WW II
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2006, 02:33:35 PM »
I never said America is not at war, just that the war has changed.

????

True, but the War in Iraq ended in 2003.


The war against Saddam ended in 2003. Iraq has its own civil war going on now. These are not the same events even though you and many in the media want to tie them together.

Okay.  Well, the Senate approved bush to clear WMD, remove Sadaam, and install democracy. Done, done, and done.  What many dislike is this new 4th goal - the Second War.

I'm sure if Bush puts up a vote of "Operation Fix the iraqi Civil War", the vote results wll be very different than the last vote ;)