What is a pyramid scheme?

[MP]

Here's some simple common sense advice on this topic:


Any business that has to spend considerable time and effort trying to explain to you why it's not a pyramid scheme almost certainly IS a pyramid scheme.

Exactly.

[24KT]

Jag, I'm absolutely correct. Multi level marketing IS the signature of a company with little belief in the product. FFI might be the exception to the rule, but notice how I didn't direct that at FFI directly.

This is a completely separate topic from the subject of this thread, ...but I will say this, ...

I don't doubt there are companies with little faith in their product who may choose to utilize a network mktg model, however, one cannot judge the legitimacy of a company or it's product offerings based solely upon the method of distribution it employs.

If we had little faith in our product at FFi, we certainly wouldn't have invested the millions of dollars in global infrastructure ahead of the sales. We knew the sales would come, as well as the repeat sales.

Network Marketing is the business model of choice for companies with the desire to get their product into the market place at lightening fast speed. It has been proven to be the fast, most efficient way to get a product into the marketplace. It is also the distribution model of choice for products that require a level of interaction in educating the consumer on it's proper use. Please see this article with Paul Zane Pilzer discussing 'Intellectual Distribution'

[Nordic Superman]

Did this thread go to plan Jag?

Has ANYONE received a more warming look towards MLM after reading your propaganda?

You never link to outside sources as "evidence" do you?

[Gino30]

"In the US there is nearly a 100% loss rate for those induced to "invest" in "their own business" in any given Amway/Quixtar motivational organization. The documentation seems to clearly support that Amway has been aware of this for nearly 20 years."

end this fucking thread

[onlyme]

MLM is just another word for Pyramid Scheme.  My friend asked me to go to a meeting yesterday involving Monavie.  So I spent most of the night before researching it.  Well after I emailed my friend back some interesting facts about this bogus bullshit, my friend cancelled the meeting and no one showed up.  MLM benefit very few people and in every instance only the creators make the most money.  Which is fine but they misrepresent to lure many others into the scheme.  Before you get involved with any MLM look into it.  By the way 98% of every person who is involved with Monavie makes less than $400 a week.  And 90% make less than $200.  And the product itself is overpriced and not anyway near better than buying 100% pure Acai capsules.

[24KT]

MLM is just another word for Pyramid Scheme.  My friend asked me to go to a meeting yesterday involving Monavie.  So I spent most of the night before researching it.  Well after I emailed my friend back some interesting facts about this bogus bullshit, my friend cancelled the meeting and no one showed up.  MLM benefit very few people and in every instance only the creators make the most money.  Which is fine but they misrepresent to lure many others into the scheme.  Before you get involved with any MLM look into it.  By the way 98% of every person who is involved with Monavie makes less than $400 a week.  And 90% make less than $200.  And the product itself is overpriced and not anyway near better than buying 100% pure Acai capsules.

Monavie is not a pyramid scheme. It is a legitimate network mktg company. That said, not all are created equal.
I took a look at Monavie when they first launched. I don't know about those stats you mention. Most everyone that I know who is working monavie as a business is making very good money, but then again, many of my contacts are professional networkers    Would I recommend the Monavie business to someone? No. Not everyone is cut out to have a network mktg business. Some opportunities are easier than others. Those who are prepared to build a business, and follow through in both good times and bad will do so, and will be successful. Those who choose to give up at the first sign of difficulty, or who quit upon hearing their first few rejections, or upon hearing the least thing negative anyone might have to say, will not. The majority of the public falls into the latter category, and doesn't have the proper mindset to be successful in network mktg. Until they alter their mindset, they're better off to do something else.

[Gino30]

If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology


bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....

[onlyme]

Monavie is not a pyramid scheme. It is a legitimate network mktg company. That said, not all are created equal.
I took a look at Monavie when they first launched. I wasn't too impressed with the quality of their product and didn't bother following through. I don't know about those stats you mention. Most everyone that I know who is working monavie as a business is making very good money, but then again, many of my contacts are professional networkers    Would I recommend the Monavie business to someone? No.

The owners of Monavie got out just in time when their other MLM got busted by the Feds and closed down.  Monavie also contains less than 10% of the actual Acai Berry.  In addition it is WAY over priced.  Another thing is they don't even use the best quality Acai Berry from Sambazon(?).  A group of people had me look into them before a meeting scheduled.  After I emailed them the facts about this stuff they cancelled the meeting. i hat companies like this.  Like I said it is public knowledge that more than 90% of the people who sell that stuff is making less than $400 a week.  And most of the money they are making are the kickbacks they get when buying the product for themselves.  But I do agree with your recommendation.  NO

If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology


bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....

Agreed.   Like Monavie.  Pure Acai berry that has been freeze dried within 24 hours of picking i the best.  Buying it in capsule form is the best.  it is 100% pure Acai Berry with nothing else.  $39.95 a month.  Monavie has less than 10% Acai Berry from freeze dried and puree.  It also has 18 other fruits and ther additives and preservatives.  It is packaged in a great looking black bottle and sells for $40 a bottle which last about 6 days so it is almost $180 a month and you only get 10% of what the other product gives.  It is all hype and all crap.  The owners are making over $1 million a month.  To bad for the other suckers.  Only a very few are making anything that I would consider huge money.

[24KT]

If a product is so good, it should be able to stand on its own merits.....not have it wrapped around some dodgy sales ideology

Agreed, ...however standing on it's own merits doesn't preclude MLM. Network mktg isn't a dodgy sales ideology.

The problem is too many people try to sell a product using network mtkg because it can not be sold any other way. That doesn't make network mktg bad, ...it simply means they had a bad product to begin with.

bottom line ----------> MLM is synonymous with lies, deceit, emotional programming and exaggerated results.....

You will find lies, deceit, emotional programming and exxagerated results everwhere.
Why should MLM be any different? What is so special about MLM that they could find themselves immune from realities of the marketplace?

[Gino30]

Agreed, ...however standing on it's own merits doesn't preclude MLM. Network mktg isn't a dodgy sales ideology.

The problem is too many people try to sell a product using network mtkg because it can not be sold any other way. That doesn't make network mktg bad, ...it simply means they had a bad product to begin with.

You will find lies, deceit, emotional programming and exxagerated results everwhere.
Why should MLM be any different? What is so special about MLM that they could find themselves immune from realities of the marketplace?

You'll make a great AMWAY salesman.....persistent, fooled and a dodgy answer to everything...

I'll have two face creams please........

[Eyeball Chambers]

I don't know much about pyramid schemes, but I can't see what the problem would be with them?

It's possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them and move all the way to the top isn't it?

[24KT]

I don't know much about pyramid schemes, but I can't see what the problem would be with them?

Pyramid schemes are illegal, and do nothing but shuffle money about.
They will always fail. The only question is how many people get hurt and lose money in the process.

It's possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them and move all the way to the top isn't it?

In network mktg, it is very possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them, ...but they do not "move to the top"... they simply make more money than those above them. They will also receive more recognition.... and be seen as the "superstars".... but their place within the geneology does not change.

As you can see by my statement, pyramid schemes & network mktg. are two very different beasts.
Don't ever let anyone tell you any different.

[Nordic Superman]

Pyramid schemes are illegal, and do nothing but shuffle money about.
They will always fail. The only question is how many people get hurt and lose money in the process.

In network mktg, it is very possible for someone on the bottom to out sell people above them, ...but they do not "move to the top"... they simply make more money than those above them. They will also receive more recognition.... and be seen as the "superstars".... but their place within the geneology does not change.

As you can see by my statement, pyramid schemes & network mktg. are two very different beasts.
Don't ever let anyone tell you any different.

It is sometimes difficult to distinguish legal and reputable MLMs from illegal pyramid or Ponzi schemes. MLM businesses operate in the United States in all 50 states and in more than 100 other countries, and new businesses may use terms like "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising". However, many pyramid schemes try to present themselves as legitimate MLM businesses.

In the most legitimate MLM companies, commissions are earned only on sales of the company's products or services. No money may be earned from recruiting alone ("sign-up fees"), though money earned from the sales of members recruited is one attraction of MLM arrangements. If participants are paid primarily from money received from new recruits, or if they are required to buy more product than they are likely to sell, then the company may be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, which is illegal in most countries.

New salespeople may be asked to pay for their own training and marketing materials, or to buy a significant amount of inventory. A commonly adopted test of legality is that MLMs follow the so-called 70% rule which prevents members "inventory loading" in order to qualify for additional bonuses. The 70% rule requires participants to sell 70% of previously purchased inventory before placing new orders with the company. There are however variations in interpretations of this rule. Some attorneys insist that 70% of purchased inventory should be sold to people who are not participants in the business, while many MLM companies allow for self-consumption to be a significant part of the sales of a participant.


The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[5] In April 2006, it proposed a Business Opportunity Rule intended to require all sellers of business opportunities—including MLMs—to provide enough information to enable prospective buyers to make an informed decision about their probability of earning money.

See: http://www.jaguarenterprises.org/ - http://www.jme.ffivideo.com/

Appears both these sites of yours put primary emphasis on recruitment. One wonders...

[24KT]

It is sometimes difficult to distinguish legal and reputable MLMs from illegal pyramid or Ponzi schemes. MLM businesses operate in the United States in all 50 states and in more than 100 other countries, and new businesses may use terms like "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising". However, many pyramid schemes try to present themselves as legitimate MLM businesses.

In the most legitimate MLM companies, commissions are earned only on sales of the company's products or services. No money may be earned from recruiting alone ("sign-up fees"), though money earned from the sales of members recruited is one attraction of MLM arrangements. If participants are paid primarily from money received from new recruits, or if they are required to buy more product than they are likely to sell, then the company may be a pyramid or Ponzi scheme, which is illegal in most countries.

New salespeople may be asked to pay for their own training and marketing materials, or to buy a significant amount of inventory. A commonly adopted test of legality is that MLMs follow the so-called 70% rule which prevents members "inventory loading" in order to qualify for additional bonuses. The 70% rule requires participants to sell 70% of previously purchased inventory before placing new orders with the company. There are however variations in interpretations of this rule. Some attorneys insist that 70% of purchased inventory should be sold to people who are not participants in the business, while many MLM companies allow for self-consumption to be a significant part of the sales of a participant.


The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[5] In April 2006, it proposed a Business Opportunity Rule intended to require all sellers of business opportunities—including MLMs—to provide enough information to enable prospective buyers to make an informed decision about their probability of earning money.

See: http://www.jaguarenterprises.org/ - http://www.jme.ffivideo.com/

Appears both these sites of yours put primary emphasis on recruitment. One wonders...

Those site put emphasis on recruiting because they are recruiting websites.

Both companies adhere to the 70% rule, and in both companies, income is made strictly from product sales, and not signups.

I only participate in legitimate network mktg.

[Nordic Superman]

Those site put emphasis on recruiting because they are recruiting websites.

Both companies adhere to the 70% rule, and in both companies, income is made strictly from product sales, and not signups.

I only participate in legitimate network mktg.

Of course you do Jag! You wouldn't lie or deceive would you?

[Decker]

Pyramid Scheme = Corporate America

Mr. Reynolds it's an honor to make your acquaintance.

The Cannon Ball Run and Stroker Ace ruled.