ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!

[alexxx]

We're talking about absolute momentary failure. Absolute failure is failure on the positive (contraction), static (holding in peak contraction position), and negative (lowering). Once a set is carried to the point where all the functions of the skeletal muscle is impossible FOR THAT MOMENT, you have reached absolute momentary failure.

Most people don't even train to positive failure (which is the weakest functional lift of a muscle, and therefore don't even reach 1/3 of absolute failure.

So you are saying that as long as you do one set where you cannot keep going and say use the partial reps principal, that that is all you need for a muscle to grow?

[figgs]

intensity techniques and going to failure is probably the worst things you can do in bodybuilding and should be avoided like the plague.

Why?

[Bluto]

Where's yours?

im not a true bodybuilder.
so again i ask, where's his picture? or is he just good at google?

[Bluto]

Why?

for a number of reasons. intensity techniques and going to failure has probably injured more people in bodybuilding than anything else, led to overtraining and stopped people from training alltogether.

and where's the connection between intensity, going to failure, and results? there is none.

in fact, going to failure will fry your CNS which also means you wont be able to train as often and because of that you will get much slower results.

[affy]

Yes, since slowing the speed of your reps is only one way to increase the intensity of your training.

While on HIT, I use the following intensity techniques: slow reps, forced reps, positive failure, static failure, negative failure, pre-exhaust, ZERO rest inbetween sets.

You have no idea what level of difficulty this type of training is on. I really don't think 99% of people could do it, including you.

The only challenge with volume training is clearing your schedule for a 2 hour workout. It's not only easy but it's quite honestly a waste of time.

As Mentzer said, you can either train hard or long, but you can't do both. And it just so happens that it takes hard work to build muscle. If Arnold trained with HIT he would be doing 10 minute workouts like I do.

sure you can do 10 minute workouts and probably get the same results.  but you do know that your gunna get injured pretty quickly doing HIT.  Even max-ot methods are pretty hard on the body, overtime your joints are going to seriously get messed up.

id much rather put that extra 1-2 hours in the gym and get a nice medium to high volume workout and stay injury free then to just go to the gym for 10 minutes and leave with extreemly sore joints and hardly any pump

[figgs]

So you are saying that as long as you do one set where you cannot keep going and say use the partial reps principal, that that is all you need for a muscle to grow?

If you have read my training log in the training section you would know just how intense my workouts are.

I'll give you an example.

Today I plan to do 1 set of close grip underhand pulldowns as my bicep workout. It should go something like this:

Starting in the stretched position, I start the set with a very slow, rhythmic speed. I bring the bar all the way down until I'm in the peak contraction position for my biceps and I hold for a second or two. I then lower just as slow as I pull back into the fully stretched position. I keep this up until I've gotten about 6 reps on my own and then my training partner will help me just the slightest bit so that I can keep up the same speed and rhythm I had earlier. I keep this up until I've reached the point where I can absolutely no longer accomplish a single positive rep. And at that point I will hold the position of peak contraction until I absolutely can no long hold the weight in a static contraction. And then I will lower the weight as slowly as possible. And if I can still manage at this point to lower the weight in a controlled manner, my training partner will pull the bar down and I will lower as slowly as possible until I reach negative failure.

ONE SET! ONE FUCKIN HELL OF A WORKOUT! My biceps have responded exceptionally well to HIT and I expect to see results after this one workout.

[Bluto]

there's a lot of methods to make your training "harder" and more macho, working out nude in the snow is just one proven technique.

but like all the rest, this technique has nothing to do with result.

[figgs]

sure you can do 10 minute workouts and probably get the same results.  but you do know that your gunna get injured pretty quickly doing HIT.  Even max-ot methods are pretty hard on the body, overtime your joints are going to seriously get messed up.

id much rather put that extra 1-2 hours in the gym and get a nice medium to high volume workout and stay injury free then to just go to the gym for 10 minutes and leave with extreemly sore joints and hardly any pump

As a matter of fact, since I'm only training each muscle for a minute or two, it's pretty easy on my joints and tendons. I've never had any unusual pains since I started. I've had more injuries from volume training so far, but it's hard to say at this point since I havn't been using HIT for that long.

I'm VERY careful not to injure myself and so all that's left for me to do is hope I never do.

[alexxx]

If you have read my training log in the training section you would know just how intense my workouts are.

I'll give you an example.

Today I plan to do 1 set of close grip underhand pulldowns as my bicep workout. It should go something like this:

Starting in the stretched position, I start the set with a very slow, rhythmic speed. I bring the bar all the way down until I'm in the peak contraction position for my biceps and I hold for a second or two. I then lower just as slow as I pull back into the fully stretched position. I keep this up until I've gotten about 6 reps on my own and then my training partner will help me just the slightest bit so that I can keep up the same speed and rhythm I had earlier. I keep this up until I've reached the point where I can absolutely no longer accomplish a single positive rep. And at that point I will hold the position of peak contraction until I absolutely can no long hold the weight in a static contraction. And then I will lower the weight as slowly as possible. And if I can still manage at this point to lower the weight in a controlled manner, my training partner will pull the bar down and I will lower as slowly as possible until I reach negative failure.

ONE SET! ONE FUCKIN HELL OF A WORKOUT! My biceps have responded exceptionally well to HIT and I expect to see results after this one workout.

Good, now do 19 more sets and that is what an Arnold Schwarzenegger workout feels like.

[figgs]

there's a lot of methods to make your training "harder" and more macho, working out nude in the snow is just one proven technique.

but like all the rest, this technique has nothing to do with result.

hahhahaha well what it comes down to is that HIT is definetely not for everyone. It's just an extremely stressful way to train and some people could really suffer from serious pre-workout anxiety.

I consider myself a masochist in the gym. I go all out, which most likely has to do with my personality. I just have to give all of my effort or none at all, especially when it comes to something I have such a passion for like bodybuilding. I have clear goals and am determined to reach them.

[The Squadfather]

Who do you think was able to generate the greatest intensity and why? Any witnesses?

Personally I don't think Mentzer is anywhere close to Arnold training wise.

i like Arnold's style of training a little better, most people will get bigger than with the HIT method if enough calories are consumed, most people can't generate enough intensity for HIT to work.

[figgs]

Good, now do 19 more sets and that is what an Arnold Schwarzenegger workout feels like.

LOL! You're crazy.

I think my job is done here.

[figgs]

i like Arnold's style of training a little better, most people will get bigger than with the HIT method if enough calories are consumed, most people can't generate enough intensity for HIT to work.

Well put!

[Bluto]

if HIT is so good how come hardly noone ever grown on it

[pumpster]

if he's a true bodybuilder where's his picture?

Do you have anything at all to contribute to the thread other than unfunny stabs for attention?

Here's a pic..

[The Squadfather]

everything works but nothing works forever.

[pumpster]

for a number of reasons. intensity techniques and going to failure has probably injured more people in bodybuilding than anything else.

Based on what evidence? Injuries from training happen from dispirate causes including the use of low reps with weight that's too heavy, which can happen from most forms of training.

[Bluto]

Ignored the troll's desperate pleas for attention.

i've explained in detail why it's bad. you obviously doesnt have enough knowledge to participate in the debate.

[alexxx]

i like Arnold's style of training a little better, most people will get bigger than with the HIT method if enough calories are consumed, most people can't generate enough intensity for HIT to work.

You started DC training haven't you?

[The Squadfather]

You started DC training haven't you?

no, i'm a volume trainer, i've tried DC before though.

[alexxx]

no, i'm a volume trainer, i've tried DC before though.

How long and what have been your results?

[Bluto]

Based on what evidence? Injuries from training happen from dispirate causes including the use of low reps with weight that's too heavy, which can happen from most forms of training.

intensity techniques are not safe. ask yates. overtraining isnt a good thing. frying your CNS isn't a good thing, would fuck with your immune system and make you sick more often.

why would anyone use worthless intensity techniques, going to failure or beyond when there's no need and when it would only increase changes of injury and slow down or hinder gains?

[The Squadfather]

How long and what have been your results?

it was a couple of years ago and honestly i got fatter and weaker using the Smith machine for all my pressing movements.

[alexxx]

it was a couple of years ago and honestly i got fatter and weaker using the Smith machine for all my pressing movements.

Nonesense!! Why would you use smith machines?? I made the best gains of my life using DC and will go back to it now.

[pumpster]

intensity techniques are not safe. ask yates. overtraining isnt a good thing. frying your CNS isn't a good thing, would f**k with your immune system and make you sick more often.

why would anyone use worthless intensity techniques, going to failure or beyond when there's no need and when it would only increase changes of injury and slow down or hinder gains?

All of that's just a function of the amount of weight used, and diet. Yates' problems were based on the use of too much weight and a stringent diet. Yates mentioned that he should have stopped short of failure because he was still using heavy weight pre-contest while dieting. Burning the candle at both ends.