ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER OR MIKE MENTZER? REGARDING TRAINING!

[natural al]

I love reading about Arthur Jones and the Nautilus stuff.

I wish there was more out there or I wish Casey would come on here and talk about it a little more, maybe someone should see if he'd be willing to do that.  

there's a Gold's in my area, it's a little hike for me to get there but they have all that old nautilus stuff there, or at least they did a few years ago and it's awsome stuff, I'd love to see them retro that stuff and see if it could become popular in this time period.

[Bluto]

yes they can train like that if they dont go to failure.
and stop this bullshit about arnold not being able to train hard enough, it's the same old tired bullshit macho talk again and again and over again that serves no purpose.

get this - no bodybuilders can hang with how greco-roman wrestlers train. or people training for an ironman. or marathon runners. or cyclists. etc etc

yet you dont see these people boost about how hard they train.

so it's obvious it's just a lame macho routine for nerds that think theyre hard and tough in the gym.

[natural al]

What would Tom Platz style of training be called? Legend has it he trained harder than any bigtime bodybuilder in history.

I don't know...I've read some articles and he was pretty insane, he did alot of volume but used alot of HIT techniques again this is an example of the genetic elite as far as recovery ability goes but even Platz started to break down training in this manner, he tore his bi pretty bad in 81 and had other injuries, he also started to have alot of trouble getting into shape at the end of his career...maybe he was burned out at this point?  I'd like to see someone post "exactly" what he did while he was training.

yes they can train like that if they dont go to failure.
and stop this bullshit about arnold not being able to train hard enough, it's the same old tired bullshit macho talk again and again and over again that serves no purpose.

get this - no bodybuilders can hang with how greco-roman wrestlers train. or people training for an ironman. or marathon runners. or cyclists. etc etc

yet you dont see these people boost about how hard they train.

so it's obvious it's just a lame macho routine for nerds that think theyre hard and tough in the gym.

actually I don't know how hard arnold trained, I just sited something out of a book that said arnold was a dog when he trained with Jones.  I've trained for wrestling and it's hard as hell but it's so far removed from BB I wouldn't even correlate the 2 but I get what your saying. 

[Bluto]

my guess platz trained too heavy, too much intensity techniques etc which would fuck with his CNS and possibly his form, joints etc

[natural al]

my guess platz trained too heavy, too much intensity techniques etc which would f**k with his CNS and possibly his form, joints etc

maybe somebody can post his routine...I kinda remember some parts of what he did but I'd like to read what he did cause I've heard he was nuts in the gym, like a man possessed.

[pumpster]

How many Mr Olympias used HIT? NONE!!!!!! Its just an excuse to be lazy and eat lots of food.

Come on, natrual al, pumpster etc, name some fucking names. The only 'bodybuilder' i can think of is that fat turd doggcrapp. No one in their right mind would want to look like him.

Wrong, Yates & Oliva used it. Besides which, the sample of winners is small, wouldn't be a large %.

[pumpster]

and stop this bullshit about arnold not being able to train hard enough, it's the same old tired bullshit macho talk again and again and over again that serves no purpose.

Where's the proof he did? There's no way to know his unrealized potential because he never tried anything else, and possibly didn't train hard.

[Bluto]

Where's the proof he did? There's no way to know his unrealized potential because he never tried anything else, and possibly didn't train hard.

yeah i think a lot of us look at arnold and think about all that unrealized potential he had and wasted 

how about the unrealized potential of yates if he didnt fuck up his training, lifting too much weight and train with too much intensity

[The Squadfather]

yeah i think a lot of us look at arnold and think about all that unrealized potential he had and wasted 

how about the unrealized potential of yates if he didnt f**k up his training, lifting too much weight and train with too much intensity

yeah, 6 Olympia's is a lot of unrealized potential.

[Bluto]

yeah, 6 Olympia's is a lot of unrealized potential.

yeah exactly

[pumpster]

yeah i think a lot of us look at arnold and think about all that unrealized potential he had and wasted

I'm not an HIT proponent, but any good program when first tried might create improvement. Nothing to do with long-term use. If Oliva improved from short-term use because he didn't pussy out of the training the way Schwarzenegger did, it's likely it would've helped anyone else. Still no proof Arnold ever trained hard.

Don't be so impressed with 6 Olympias, some of which were due to politics. If you don't know that by now say hello to Santa for me in a couple of weeks.

[brianX]

why do you say that?  I honestly don't know if he's credible or not...he's written a ton of books so why isn't he credible?

Darden works for Nautilus. He's obviously going to try and discredit volume trainers like Arnold.

My dad actually competed against Darden in a powerlifting meet in the early 60's and said that everyone hated him because he was such a little prick.

[Palpatine Q]

mike mentzer didnt have a clue

I like when Mentzer said "that was 4 and a half seconds" when the guy was curling the weight, like unless it's EXACTLY 4 seconds it doesn't count and you won't grow. what a fool. Putting all your eggs in one basket is retarded.

Sarc qouted one of my favorite lines "everything works but nothing works forever".

The only thing that needs to be consistent in your workout is your mental effort and intensity.
Saying "I'm a DC trainer" or "i'm a volume trainer"  is the same as saying "I'm going to adhere dogmatically to this one training philosophy because I'm a close-minded jackass....therefore hindering my progress because ultimately by body will adapt to this style and I'll stop growing"

Switch it up and keep your body guessing and growing. Worked for me.

PS going to absolute ball-frying failure on every set every day WILL overtax your CNS now matter how much you eat. your body needs time to recover from training, period.

[pumpster]

Darden works for Nautilus. He's obviously going to try and discredit volume trainers like Arnold.

Too simple to assume that because he worked for them that he doesn't believe it works. The HIT guys always seemed arrogant but that doesn't mean it's not worth trying.

Let's face it, almost all the sceptics of HIT have never done it as it's supposed to be done, with a training partner.

[natural al]

Darden works for Nautilus. He's obviously going to try and discredit volume trainers like Arnold.

My dad actually competed against Darden in a powerlifting meet in the early 60's and said that everyone hated him because he was such a little prick.

he has his perspective, that doesn't mean he's not credible...he says Franco did great while he was there and it was pretty much the same situation for both franco and arnold.

[Bluto]

I'm not an HIT proponent, but any good program when first tried might create improvement. Nothing to do with long-term use. If Oliva improved from short-term use because he didn't pussy out of the training the way Schwarzenegger did, it's likely it would've helped anyone else. Still no proof Arnold ever trained hard.

Don't be so impressed with 6 Olympias, some of which were due to politics. If you don't know that by now say hello to Santa for me in a couple of weeks.

or there could've been less than 6 and he would've injured himself just like yates.
at least arnold didnt stop due to injury

[Bluto]

Where's the proof he did? There's no way to know his unrealized potential because he never tried anything else, and possibly didn't train hard.

why would train hard be beneficial? i dont see any of the HIT guy winning any trophies. i did see dorian having to stop because of injuries though.

if arnold didnt train hard, in your definition, then that was probably a smart move.

[pumpster]

or there could've been less than 6 and he would've injured himself just like yates.
at least arnold didnt stop due to injury

Since Oliva & Viator were never injured it's also inaccurate to assume that it would always happen. Or as Viator did, going to lighter volume training pre-contest, because he thought it was better for refinement. Yates' injuries seemed to be a combination of heavy weight, HIT & dieting pre-contest, so it's not certain which part of that or all created the problems.

[natural al]

I like when Mentzer said "that was 4 and a half seconds" when the guy was curling the weight, like unless it's EXACTLY 4 seconds it doesn't count and you won't grow. what a fool. Putting all your eggs in one basket is retarded.

Sarc qouted one of my favorite lines "everything works but nothing works forever".

The only thing that needs to be consistent in your workout is your mental effort and intensity.
Saying "I'm a DC trainer" or "i'm a volume trainer"  is the same as saying "I'm going to adhere dogmatically to this one training philosophy because I'm a close-minded jackass....therefore hindering my progress because ultimately by body will adapt to this style and I'll stop growing"

Switch it up and keep your body guessing and growing. Worked for me.

PS going to absolute ball-frying failure on every set every day WILL overtax your CNS now matter how much you eat. your body needs time to recover from training, period.

pretty much everyone that knows metzer or has read his stuff or followed his career will tell you the same thing:  he was f'n nuts at the end with some of his concepts.  he just took everyhting so f'n far that they started to not make sense in the end, I'm assuming you're quoting him from the video he did right before he died....I've heard that he was pretty much whacked out of his mind at that time.  A younger Mike metzer's writing and stuff was alot better read and made alot more sense.  

[Bluto]

Since Oliva & Viator were never injured it's also inaccurate to assume that it would always happen. Or as Viator did, he went to lighter volume training pre-contest, because he thought it was better for refinement. Yates' injuries seemed to be a combination of heavy weight with dieting pre-contest, which might've been a problem in any kind of program.

so with arnold winning every competition he participated in, what exactly is it you think he should've accomplished by training differently? winning against imaginary opponents?

[natural al]

so with arnold winning every competition he participated in, what exactly is it you think he should've accomplished by training differently? winning against imaginary opponents?

not to be a dick but arnold didn't win everything he entered and what pumpster is saying-or what i think he's saying is that arnold may have hampered his own potential by not trying different things.

[pumpster]

so with arnold winning every competition he participated in, what exactly is it you think he should've accomplished by training differently? winning against imaginary opponents?

Didn't make any difference in winning, because as Nubret has confirmed here on getbig, Schwarzenegger was protected/"sponsored" and wasn't going to lose if he showed up in shape.

The only difference might've been a physical improvement, just as Oliva got in his best shape in '72. That could have happened from the shock of trying any new program that was effective, especially being driven by an intense trainer like Jones & machines Oliva thought were often more effective than weights, but HIT was at least part of the equation. Other programs that were untired might've helped as well.

[UK Gold]

Pumpster, Yates did not use HIT. He said, in numerous interviews that it didn't stimulate his muscles fully and he needed more sets. Please don't embarress youself any further by making false claims about Dorian. You already do that all the time about Ronnie

[Bluto]

not to be a dick but arnold didn't win everything he entered and what pumpster is saying-or what i think he's saying is that arnold may have hampered his own potential by not trying different things.

he did win everything of importance. and so whatever other roads he could've take, it would serve no purpose.

yates on the other hand, who quit due to injury, could've benefiting following a different road.

and here you are criticizing arnold, who had nothing to win changing.
and defending yates, who had everything to win changing.
 

[pumpster]

Pumpster, Yates did not use HIT. He said, in numerous interviews that it didn't stimulate his muscles fully and he needed more sets. Please don't embarress youself any further by making false claims about Dorian. You already do that all the time about Ronnie

He used a modified version of HIT, after studying HIT and befriending & training with Mentzer, genius. hahaahahahahahahahahah