240, What you Got

[Cavalier22]

what do YOU think happened on 9/11?  We all get you don't buy the official story, but if you had to make an educated guess with what you have seen or read so far what do you think happened?

[Cavalier22]

someone please move this thread to politics board, please

[240 is Back]

I don't know what happened.  Honestly, I don't think any 911 Skeptics do. 

I am very sure that things didn't happen as the 911 Commission tells us.

A few thoughts:

---They changed the WTC1 and WTC2 collapse reason THREE times so far - each time after independent scientists absolutely disproved the official story

---They said they had no Pentagon film, then discovered 5 frames, three days before 'The Big Lie', an expose on the Inside Job, came out.

---WTC7's collapse is completely inexplainable.  Even the biggest supporter will say "we're not sure".

--- The complete gagging of many people and evidence, coupled with their unwillingness to investigate or punish anyone for at the very least, incompetence.

---The slipups (rummy talking about the missile hitting the pentagon or the 'plane we shot down in penn'.)  Or Bush talking about how terrorists placed explosives in the building in a way to trap people.


What I think doesn't matter.  What anyone thinks doesn't matter.  What the second 911 commission proves is all that matters.

[OzmO]

I don't know what happened.  Honestly, I don't think any 911 Skeptics do. 

I am very sure that things didn't happen as the 911 Commission tells us.

A few thoughts:

---They changed the WTC1 and WTC2 collapse reason THREE times so far - each time after independent scientists absolutely disproved the official story

---They said they had no Pentagon film, then discovered 5 frames, three days before 'The Big Lie', an expose on the Inside Job, came out.

---WTC7's collapse is completely inexplainable.  Even the biggest supporter will say "we're not sure".

--- The complete gagging of many people and evidence, coupled with their unwillingness to investigate or punish anyone for at the very least, incompetence.

---The slipups (rummy talking about the missile hitting the pentagon or the 'plane we shot down in penn'.)  Or Bush talking about how terrorists placed explosives in the building in a way to trap people.


What I think doesn't matter.  What anyone thinks doesn't matter.  What the second 911 commission proves is all that matters.

In anything as complex as the events of 9/11 there are bound to be many inconsistencies and cover ups.  There will be comments taken out of context, comments made on incomplete information or presumptuous early conclusions.  Look at the evidence with the Holocaust....Iran has enough ammo to cast doubt with some people on something as true as that.

Pointing out holes in the "official" story in this case is too easy but doesn't prove anything concrete unless you can come up with a provable version of what you think happened.

I'd be willing to bet that what ever you come up with in the realm of a "inside" job can be shot full of holes 10 times more than you can with the official story.

[240 is Back]

I'm not trying to win any awards for punching holes in official story. 

I want to know if NORAD guys intentionally helped terrorists by not doing their jobs so we couldn't shoot down the planes.  If so, they are traitors and need to be put on trial. Agreed?

I want to know why Guiliani had the crime scene removed despite federal law regarding plane crashes. 

I want to know why nobody tested the metal.

I want to know who in Paki ISI paid Atta his $100k right before 9/11, and why he was so cuddly with CIA guys that morning.

I want to know why Bush wrote an exec order in which he ORDERED FBI agents to halt all investigations into Atta, right before 9/11.

I want to know why Bush was given detailed info about upcoming attacks and did nothing.  That is a serious fucking crime if ANY AMERICAN knew men were about to attack and did nothing.  Was our ally the German ambassador LYING when he said he warned Bush?  Was Putin and other world leaders also lying when they said the same thing?

I want to know why the physical evidence at the Pentagon doesn't support a plane crash, and why all videotaped proof has been hidden?

I want to live in a safe america.  If it was negligence, incompetence, or crime - I don't want those same fucks that let planes fly 90 minutes without intercept on 9/11, still in the exact same jobs they had then.

DO YOU?

[240 is Back]

Ozmo, things happened on 9/11 which were logistically IMPOSSIBLE for those 19 men with knives.

WTC7 fell.  They didn't do that.

NORAD didn't scramble planes from Andrews AFB, 12 miles from the pentagon. Atta and his friends didn't prevent that.  Someone else did. 

explosions in the basements of the buildings - Atta didn't do that.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  Those 19 terrorists had assistance that day - it is the ONLY explanation for procedure not being followed.  I mean, people at FAA *DESTROYED ALL THEIR RECORDINGS BEFORE THE FBI ARRIVED*.  Whether it's a coverup of involvement or incompetence, the men who did that still have their jobs today.

And as we all know, terrorism could happen again. Do you still want those same cnuts at the defense if it does?

[Hugo Chavez]

Well, if this wasn't and inside job, Bush & Company still used it all the same which is the bigest part of the crime in my book... Indited on letting 9/11 happen... maybe not... Indited on his actions after the fact, hell ya.

[240 is Back]

Well, if this wasn't and inside job, Bush & Company still used it all the same which is the bigest part of the crime in my book... Indited on letting 9/11 happen... maybe not... Indited on his actions after the fact, hell ya.

It would be conspiracy to commit murder, if any American knew about the attacks beforehand and just didn't say anything. 

For someone in his position - trusted and paid to use intel to protect us - to let it happen would be a horrible, horrible thing. 

Several of our allies have said they told Bush.  So either they are all lying, or bush is lying.  Period. 

He ordered a great deal of the evidence sealed until Jan 9, 2009, right as he leaves office.  I guess we might find out a bit more then.

[OzmO]

Ozmo, things happened on 9/11 which were logistically IMPOSSIBLE for those 19 men with knives.

WTC7 fell.  They didn't do that.

NORAD didn't scramble planes from Andrews AFB, 12 miles from the pentagon. Atta and his friends didn't prevent that.  Someone else did. 

explosions in the basements of the buildings - Atta didn't do that.

I could go on, but you get the idea.  Those 19 terrorists had assistance that day - it is the ONLY explanation for procedure not being followed.  I mean, people at FAA *DESTROYED ALL THEIR RECORDINGS BEFORE THE FBI ARRIVED*.  Whether it's a coverup of involvement or incompetence, the men who did that still have their jobs today.

And as we all know, terrorism could happen again. Do you still want those same cnuts at the defense if it does?

Again,  what is your theory? Other then pointing holes based on incomplete information and lack of knowledge and experteese in the many fields invovled?

See you don't get it 240.....  your CT is fueled by 9/11 CT websites and CT books.  You have an opportunity to do "real" research and you refuse to do it citing things like you don't have time.  (facts are you do)

If you are serious about finding out the whole truth start with your research in these areas from sources not associated with 9/11 CT'ers and or websites:

-  NORAD/Air force/FAA  air defense protocol

-  The entire 9/11 report

-  The entire NIST report

If you won't even do these things maybe you are not really SERIOUS about finding out the truth.  And everything you say is pretty much the same BULL SHIT you accuse the otherside of being

[OzmO]

I'm not trying to win any awards for punching holes in official story. 

I want to know if NORAD guys intentionally helped terrorists by not doing their jobs so we couldn't shoot down the planes.  If so, they are traitors and need to be put on trial. Agreed?

I want to know why Guiliani had the crime scene removed despite federal law regarding plane crashes. 

I want to know why nobody tested the metal.

I want to know who in Paki ISI paid Atta his $100k right before 9/11, and why he was so cuddly with CIA guys that morning.

I want to know why Bush wrote an exec order in which he ORDERED FBI agents to halt all investigations into Atta, right before 9/11.

I want to know why Bush was given detailed info about upcoming attacks and did nothing.  That is a serious fucking crime if ANY AMERICAN knew men were about to attack and did nothing.  Was our ally the German ambassador LYING when he said he warned Bush?  Was Putin and other world leaders also lying when they said the same thing?

I want to know why the physical evidence at the Pentagon doesn't support a plane crash, and why all videotaped proof has been hidden?

I want to live in a safe america.  If it was negligence, incompetence, or crime - I don't want those same fucks that let planes fly 90 minutes without intercept on 9/11, still in the exact same jobs they had then.

DO YOU?

The thing in bold is probably the only thing close to the truth.

Otherwise all you have is arguementative statements based on not so credible sources and a total lack of knowledge in these fields.

[OzmO]

And then to add to all the BS.......  you take every opportunity you can to spew your 9/11 CT propaganda by hijacking threads but won't do true research...  you're worse than Bush. 

[240 is Back]

My own theory is that the $2.3 Trillion which was announced missing from the Pentagon was used to fund a small group of people in key roles here, along with a larger team of overseas contractors, to conduct a psyops operation on the American people.

You asked about official sources-

I KNOW that NORAD intercepted every plane which went off course or didn't answer, in the year before 9/11, one hundred times.  All in under 22 mintues, the average being 15 minutes.  That is their protocol.  Why they didn't do it on 911?   You ask them.

I know that the 911 commission answered exactly 1% of the questions given to them by the 911 widows.  

I know the 911 commission was populated with people who were oil associates of bush 1.

I know the White House falsified the EPA report to meet their agenda (EPA whistleblowers verified it), so I don't put much stock in the NIST report the white house approved and launched.

I don't have to convince anyone.  There are a great deal of people in govt, military, and science who know it was an inside job.  An investigation will come in 2009.

[240 is Back]

And then to add to all the BS.......  you take every opportunity you can to spew your 9/11 CT propaganda by hijacking threads but won't do true research...  you're worse than Bush. 

are you shitting me?  I have posted all sorts of detailed info about the melting points of steel and the impossiblity of the molten pools under wtc1,2,7.  I have posted detailed graphics I made which show the pentagon penetration, 6 entry and exit holes.  I have posted numerous timeline conflicts with the official story.  I have posted the 29 foreign intel warnings Bush ignored.

I am tired of typing the same shit, and having the same people say "you don't give us any facts".

The truth is, Bush & Co keep changing the story.  They hid all the videos.  They knew and didn't act.  They have gagged thousands of people.  They confiscated all videos.  And this attack benefitted them more than anyone in the world - they got a blank check to invade the middle east and cut civil rights here.

[240 is Back]

The thing in bold is probably the only thing close to the truth.

Otherwise all you have is arguementative statements based on not so credible sources and a total lack of knowledge in these fields.

"I want to know why Bush wrote an exec order in which he ORDERED FBI agents to halt all investigations into Atta, right before 9/11."

If I produce evidence of this, what would you say?

[OzmO]

I KNOW that NORAD intercepted every plane which went off course or didn't answer, in the year before 9/11, one hundred times.  All in under 22 mintues, the average being 15 minutes.  That is their protocol.  Why they didn't do it on 911?   You ask them.

This is something you gleemed from your 9/11 CT websites. You have not researched the defense posture of the USA on 9/11 and the protocol of how they deal with threats and where they were expecting threats to come from.

My own theory is that the $2.3 Trillion which was announced missing from the Pentagon was used to fund a small group of people in key roles here, along with a larger team of overseas contractors, to conduct a psyops operation on the American people.

This means laot of people made some serious money and even a 2nd rate P.I. could trace it or show some of these people who are now EXTREMELY wealthy.....  funny how nothing has come from that. 

I know the White House falsified the EPA report to meet their agenda (EPA whistleblowers verified it), so I don't put much stock in the NIST report the white house approved and launched.

EPA  blows it whistles more than a $10 whore blows for crack.  Means little.

I know that the 911 commission answered exactly 1% of the questions given to them by the 911 widows. 

I know the 911 commission was populated with people who were oil associates of bush 1.

Have you analyzed every question?  Have you determined how many questioins just couldn't be answered based on incomplete information?......................

Again  BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT DOING COMPLETE RESEARCH (instead getting all your info and arguments from 9/11 CT site) I ALREADY KNOW YOU HAVEN'T

I don't have to convince anyone. There are a great deal of people in govt, military, and science who know it was an inside job.  An investigation will come in 2009.

The passion and frequency of your posts lead me to believe otherwise.

[OzmO]

are you shitting me?  I have posted all sorts of detailed info about the melting points of steel and the impossiblity of the molten pools under wtc1,2,7.  I have posted detailed graphics I made which show the pentagon penetration, 6 entry and exit holes.  I have posted numerous timeline conflicts with the official story.  I have posted the 29 foreign intel warnings Bush ignored.

I am tired of typing the same shit, and having the same people say "you don't give us any facts".

The truth is, Bush & Co keep changing the story.  They hid all the videos.  They knew and didn't act.  They have gagged thousands of people.  They confiscated all videos.  And this attack benefitted them more than anyone in the world - they got a blank check to invade the middle east and cut civil rights here.

Yes, you have posted all sorts of detailed info you got from 9/11 CT sites and the only person with any engineering back ground or access to an expert on this forum disagrees with you.

It's your facts and their credibility that are in question  combined with your incomplete unbias research of other sources

[Thunderfck1]

explosions in the basements of the buildings - Atta didn't do that.

I've heard a ton of people talk about these bombs in the basement, but I haven't seen a seismic chart that shows bombs going off.  I would like to see some hard evidence.

[240 is Back]

EPA  blows it whistles more than a $10 whore blows for crack.  Means little.

I don't understand what you mean.  EPA scientists risked their careers by coming forward and saying the White House had changed their report in order to reopen wall street.  They had research showing people would be a great risk for longterm health problems.  They also said professional clearning was the only way to prevent asbestosis and other lung ailments.

It was in their report.  But when the report came out, their names were still signed to it, only now it said it was perfectly safe to return to work, and that only soap and water was all that was needed.

They freaked, as lives were at stake.  They published their actual report, and the White house had egg on its face.  With the NIST report, no lives were at immediate risk, so whistleblower motivation was much lower.

Oz, for you to say "EPA  blows it whistles more than a $10 whore blows for crack.  Means little.".  I don't understand that. 

[240 is Back]

I've heard a ton of people talk about these bombs in the basement, but I haven't seen a seismic chart that shows bombs going off.  I would like to see some hard evidence.

Original seismic and Commission times

AA Flight 11

2001 LDEO 8:46:26 Original seismic
2004 Commission 8:46:40 (14 seconds difference)

UA Flight 175
2001 LDEO 9:02:54 Original seismic
2004 Commission 9:03:11 (17 seconds difference)

Witnesses also reported bomb blasts in basement.  And, pictures from tv show huge 400-feet plumes of smoke from the basement.

[240 is Back]

SEISMIC DATA AND TIMES
LDEO Published Findings 2001
Link: http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_wtc.html

LDEO confirmed its data as accurate:
Link: http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/publications/download/911pentagon.pdf

9/11 COMMISSION DATA AND TIMES
Commission Timeline Link: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html


These are the sources.  All govt agencies.  They're all on nuclear time.  They had the best intel, imagery, and measurement data on earth.  And their findings match exactly the witness statements - that monster blasts happened in basement BEFORE the planes hit.

[luike101]

Seriously if you were paying attention.  I dont know how many times I see these guys having to repeat things that have been discussed 10 times over.  Asv far as having a political agenda, if you were paying attention you would know 240 has repeated the fact that he voted for bush and was a devoted republican um like two hundred and foty times.  Come on people get up to speed so they can get on to newer and better things.  240 and B, grreat job of being patient no way I could do it.

[240 is Back]

I really try not to start threads about this stuff.  It's my belief we need a second investigation, and I really hate to be preachy like I used to be. 

I voted for Bush twice and still vote repub on everything except nat'l level, where it's a candidate by candidate choice.  i'd vote for a mccain, but not a condi. 

when people call me a liberal, it's so weird.  I carry a permitted pistol, have voted repub in every election of my life since 18, am a strong proponent for justice, and demand the best from my nation.   Liberals hate guns, don't vote, don't want criminals prosecuted, and could give a shit about their nation at times, as they'd rather pardon criminals or smoke pot.

It BAFFLES me why staunch republicans wouldn't DEMAND a complete investigation of 9/11.  If there is a chance that a rogue FAA supervisor or NORAD operator assisted the 19 arabs by sabotaging the interceptor fighters, these men should be IN PRISON.

REAL republicans would agree, and would want an investigation to find just who fucked up, covered up, or committed treason.  They certainly wouldn't condone a half assed investigation like we had (by the 911 commish's own account).

These aren't REAL republicans we have here.  They are coward sheep neoconservatives who care more about power and oil than they do about truth, justice, and the American way.  They are the fucking traitors.

[kh300]

i can go along with you on that stuff 240. i think its fine if you want a second investigation. youll get the same answers you got in the first but whatever.

what i and many other people dont like is when you come up with those ludicrous stories about what you think happend. this is why nobody takes conspiracy theorists seriously and why they will never get a second investigation. a million things happend on 911. a few of them arnt totally understood. but that gives nobody the right to make up stories and put blame on people that dont deserve it. you are innocent until proven guilty. until you find proof of guilt you are not entitled to prosecute.

[240 is Back]

I'm not making up the stuff about FAA superviser destroying recordings - that was admitted on the stand. 

And I didn't point out my thoughts until asked repeatedly.  You'll see I said "It doesn't matter what I thinkn - let's see what the evidence says".

I don't want to convict anyone.  I want a trained prosecutor to ask the FAA and NORAD employees why they broke protocol, and under whose order.  That's how it works.  Either they broke the law, their oath, and randomly all chose to break this rule for no reason, or, more likely, they were given that order.  Let's find out by who and move up the chain.

[Brixtonbulldog]

My own theory is that the $2.3 Trillion which was announced missing from the Pentagon was used to fund a small group of people in key roles here, along with a larger team of overseas contractors, to conduct a psyops operation on the American people.


I don't have to convince anyone.  There are a great deal of people in govt, military, and science who know it was an inside job.  An investigation will come in 2009.

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