Author Topic: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut  (Read 23923 times)

tu_holmes

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2007, 08:50:36 PM »
Well getting home anyway..got plenty of years left until I get out.

I hope you don't have to go back...

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2007, 10:50:04 PM »
Half of this board is hypotneticals on future situations and solutions.  Suppose I gave you the hypothetical: "Would you chop off your arm for a big Mac"?

The answer would be an easy "NO".

I guess this answer didn't come so easy to you.  If there's any doubt, then you really shouldn't question this man's actions, because you open up the same door of doubt.

If you could level the building without blinking, I think you would have just admitted it.  I think you're a better man for not admitting your willingness, although it does leave you vulnerable in this argument.

Silly boy.  It's actually much simpler than that.  It's a dumb hypothetical.

HTH. 

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #102 on: February 07, 2007, 10:53:59 PM »
Silly boy.  It's actually much simpler than that.  It's a dumb hypothetical.

HTH. 

Right.  Dumb because no soldier has ever questioned an order.  Cool.  it helped!

Tre

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #103 on: February 07, 2007, 11:04:53 PM »
My cousin is in Iraq right now... I think that if I were a person in the military I too would see it as a slap in the face.

What a bunch of pussies.

That 'slap in the face' whine is old, tired, and worthless. 

The slap in the face came from the President, not from the people who said the President was a coward, liar, and thief. 


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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #104 on: February 07, 2007, 11:11:12 PM »
What a bunch of pussies.
That 'slap in the face' whine is old, tired, and worthless. 
The slap in the face came from the President, not from the people who said the President was a coward, liar, and thief. 

Every time I hear a military man say we're losing because 'people at home aren't supportive enough', it makes me shake my head in disgust.  We've supported a war against one country that lasted longer than WWII.  When we found out it was built on lies, we gave it another 2 years.  When the death toll neared 3000, people had enough and voted the dogs out.

If 5 years of pats on the back, unlimited cash and support isn't enough to get the job done, please look at the men giving orders, body armor, and reinforcements.

tu_holmes

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #105 on: February 07, 2007, 11:25:56 PM »
What a bunch of pussies.

That 'slap in the face' whine is old, tired, and worthless. 

The slap in the face came from the President, not from the people who said the President was a coward, liar, and thief. 



You don't think if you were doing what you were told like everyone else... you wouldn't see a deserter (cause in all honesty, that's what he is) as slapping you in the face while you're doing what you're told?

Come on...

Tre

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #106 on: February 07, 2007, 11:57:03 PM »
You don't think if you were doing what you were told like everyone else... you wouldn't see a deserter (cause in all honesty, that's what he is) as slapping you in the face while you're doing what you're told?

Come on...

The military's position has always been "he signed the contract, took the money, and now he needs to get back here and do his job." 

A large majority of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines feel exactly the same way and military leaders drill that into their heads. 

And I disagree with them 100%.

When I'm deployed, I don't want to have to rely on anyone who isn't committed to the mission.  If they don't want to be there and my life is on the line, then I sure as hell don't want them there. 

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #107 on: February 07, 2007, 11:58:38 PM »
We get some MTV top ten thing on AFN here. They carry MTV news as part of it as well. That shithead was just on. Look I don't care if ur against the war..plenty of guys who got out have protested or have problems with it. He abandoned his men....his buddies and he should be held accountable for his actions. He violated the law, just like murder, rape or arson. What he did was against the law. Maybe its not the law most folks have to deal with but its (UCMJ) Federal law. He should have done his year and then gotten out. He knew exactly what he was getting into..he knew during colledge. He knew he was going to war. There is plenty to complain about in the military..but not doing ur damm job is not one of them. His job as a junior officer and leader is to take care of his guys period. Bring them home safe and not utter one word that will lower moral or in any way jeoparidize their safety.
L

tu_holmes

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #108 on: February 08, 2007, 12:07:15 AM »
The military's position has always been "he signed the contract, took the money, and now he needs to get back here and do his job." 

A large majority of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines feel exactly the same way and military leaders drill that into their heads. 

And I disagree with them 100%.

When I'm deployed, I don't want to have to rely on anyone who isn't committed to the mission.  If they don't want to be there and my life is on the line, then I sure as hell don't want them there. 

So you think most of the people in Iraq believe in the cause...

I would bet it's a lot less than you think... There's a huge difference between believing in the cause and loyalty to your comrades... This guy has definitely shown NO loyalty... It's about him and no one else.

I'm not saying he's inherently wrong... read my past posts... however, the only difference between him and the rest of the gang is that he refused... everyone else did their job.

The next time you don't do what you're told to do at work... let's see how well that goes over with your boss...

No, you won't get brought into court, because you're a civilian... the reality is that he as a soldier is US Government property... That's just fact.

If you hurt a soldier, that is a federal crime, and you can also be charged with damaging government property.

It's unfortunate and I don't agree with it, but he certainly knows what he signed up for.

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #109 on: February 08, 2007, 03:23:49 AM »
MIS-TRIAL  ;D

Let's hope he's not tried again
w

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #110 on: February 08, 2007, 07:46:26 AM »
We get some MTV top ten thing on AFN here. They carry MTV news as part of it as well. That shithead was just on. Look I don't care if ur against the war..plenty of guys who got out have protested or have problems with it. He abandoned his men....his buddies and he should be held accountable for his actions. He violated the law, just like murder, rape or arson. What he did was against the law. Maybe its not the law most folks have to deal with but its (UCMJ) Federal law. He should have done his year and then gotten out. He knew exactly what he was getting into..he knew during colledge. He knew he was going to war. There is plenty to complain about in the military..but not doing ur damm job is not one of them. His job as a junior officer and leader is to take care of his guys period. Bring them home safe and not utter one word that will lower moral or in any way jeoparidize their safety.

Well said.  I agree.

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #111 on: February 08, 2007, 07:48:22 AM »
MIS-TRIAL  ;D

Let's hope he's not tried again

YAWN.  His lawyer was all over TV yelling "double jeopardy," but Watada will be on trial again next month.  This is a speed bump. 

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #112 on: February 08, 2007, 10:40:48 AM »

Not as dangerous..well that depends on where u are. This place is the forgotten war. But u can ask any of my soldiers how "easy" this place is. All of them have been IED'd, ambushed or seen combat in one form or another. It is different from Iraq....We don't get IED'd at the same rate and u know more less where u can go and can't go. U have a better idea of where ur going to get lit up. The terrain makes it difficult to fight and there are few urban sprawls like Iraq. I leave in 3 days.

You're right.  I wasn't trying to say Afghanistan isn't dangerous.  Sorry about that. 

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #113 on: February 08, 2007, 11:53:13 AM »
This is a speed bump. 

You're on a mission to have this guy buried for putting his beliefs above his freedom.

Shame you wouldn't answer that you'd follow 100% of orders. 

yet you're all over this guys' case.

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #114 on: February 08, 2007, 12:12:59 PM »
You're on a mission to have this guy buried for putting his beliefs above his freedom.

Shame you wouldn't answer that you'd follow 100% of orders. 

yet you're all over this guys' case.

I'm not on a mission.  I'm reporting the news, sprinkled with my opinion.  The United States Army is on mission to punish this fool.  I wish the Army good luck and Godspeed on their "journey to justice."   

And am I supposed to care that you support this coward or something?   :-\  (I don't.) 

Tre

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2007, 12:32:53 PM »
And am I supposed to care that you support this coward or something?   :-\  (I don't.) 

I care that so many Americans support that coward, George Bush.

Idiots do frighten me, because their numbers are growing too rapidly in this country.

Dos Equis

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2007, 12:57:30 PM »
I care that so many Americans support that coward, George Bush.

Idiots do frighten me, because their numbers are growing too rapidly in this country.

That's one of the great things about this country.  Millions support Bush and millions don't.  But we're still standing and thriving.

But thank God for the justice system that deals with cowards like Watada.   

Tre

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #117 on: February 08, 2007, 01:16:30 PM »
But thank God for the justice system that deals with cowards like Watada.   

If there is any such thing as justice, cowards Bush & Cheney will suffer long and painful deaths.

Dos Equis

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #118 on: February 08, 2007, 01:20:35 PM »
If there is any such thing as justice, cowards Bush & Cheney will suffer long and painful deaths.

No such luck.  They have to actually break the law first (like Watada).   :D

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #119 on: February 08, 2007, 02:31:25 PM »
No such luck.  They have to actually break the law first (like Watada).   :D

         

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2007, 04:40:43 PM »
         

                      BeachBum

BeachBum, when you hide your head in the sand, ...guess which end get's exposed?
I should send you some KY for Valentine's Day, 'cause I have a feeling you're gonna need it.  :D

Haha.  You're lucky I'm a functioning computer illiterate and don't know how to post those funny pictures.   :( 

And if there is anyone who knows anything about taking it in the shorts, it's a tax-paying Canadian.   :D

Dos Equis

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #121 on: February 09, 2007, 07:47:27 AM »
I agree with Fidell.  And what's cool about this is Watada may force more prison time.   :)

Watada trial judge erred, risking case, one expert says
But experts disagree about double jeopardy in court-martial

By Leila Fujimori
lfujimori@starbulletin.com

A local attorney with decades of experience in military justice says the judge in Army 1st Lt. Ehren Watada's court-martial overstepped his bounds, possibly jeopardizing the government's case against the war objector.

Attorney Earle Partington says military judge Lt. Col. John Head lacked authority to set a new date, March 19, for trial after declaring a mistrial Wednesday, and it could take at least year before the case can go back to trial.

"I'm surprised he thought he could do that," said Partington, who has represented numerous military service members since the 1960s and served in the military in Vietnam. He said the government might have "to start over from scratch."

Partington, who recently represented a Kaneohe Marine in a court-martial, said the judge in that case noted that he could not just reset a trial after declaring a mistrial.

Watada, a 1996 Kalani High School graduate, is being court-martialed for refusing to deploy to Iraq and for conduct unbecoming an officer. Last year, the Fort Lewis, Wash.-based officer announced his refusal to deploy based on his belief that the war in Iraq was illegal.

Head declared a mistrial after questioning Watada over an agreement he signed before the trial started, stipulating certain facts of the case. The judge said he did not believe Watada fully understood the stipulation of fact. Watada said he never intended to admit he had a duty to go to Iraq with his soldiers, part of the crime of missing troop movement.

While Partington thinks the judge erred, another local attorney with decades of experience in military justice disagrees.

Jay Fidell, a U.S. Coast Guard law specialist, former military judge and investigating officer and a retired lieutenant commander, said it was the judge's call and likely is OK.

"It seems to me the government is motivated to try to conclude this matter," he said. "It's been a high-profile matter, and I think the government is interested in putting it to rest and in achieving a precedent that will not undo good order and discipline."

Watada's lawyer, Eric Seitz, said Wednesday his client cannot be tried again, saying it would have the effect of double jeopardy, or being tried twice for the same charges.

Should the Army go forward with a new trial, Seitz said, he would seek dismissal of the charges with prejudice so they could not be refiled, and would appeal if denied.

Fidell and Partington, who both acknowledged they lacked firsthand knowledge of the details of the proceedings, also disagreed on the issue of double jeopardy.

"I have serious reservations about whether this is a case of double jeopardy," Fidell said.

To have a case of double jeopardy, there must be a case of jeopardy, he said, noting that jeopardy classically "attaches" when trial is over and the accused is acquitted, Fidell said.

"My sense of it is it did not attach here," he said. "It was just not late enough in the proceeding."

But Partington said, "Jeopardy attaches in the military when evidence is offered on the issue of guilt.

"The government presented their case, so jeopardy must certainly attach," he said. The prosecution had rested before the mistrial was declared, but the defense had not yet presented any witnesses.

If the case goes back to trial, Watada would first be allowed to appeal in the Army Court of Criminal Appeals, pushing the court-martial back further, Partington said. If rejected, he would have the option to take the matter to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces in Washington, D.C.

Fidell said that if the judge rightly concluded there were issues about the validity of the stipulation Watada signed, then the mistrial was properly granted.

The real question is whether Watada will be charged on the same charges, Fidell said. The Army originally had dropped some charges for conduct unbecoming an officer, which would have exposed him to a more severe punishment, Fidell noted.

"Now he faces all of them again," he said. "The government may be reluctant to enter into a deal. Now he may be facing greater punishment."

http://starbulletin.com/2007/02/09/news/story02.html

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #122 on: February 09, 2007, 09:50:47 AM »
Can someone summarize in one sentence why watada might beat the rap?  5 pages of whining, eh...

Dos Equis

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #123 on: February 09, 2007, 09:58:40 AM »
Can someone explain the First Amendment exceptions and missing movement charges to 240?  He still doesn't get it. 

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Re: Treasonous Officer Just Can't Keep His Mouth Shut
« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2007, 10:01:35 AM »
Can someone explain the First Amendment exceptions and missing movement charges to 240?  He still doesn't get it. 

i understand the charges and the agreement he took on.  i just didn't feel like reading 5 pages of an evolving story when someone with knowledge could summarize why the case might not go thru.

thanks for answering my request with an assumption.