Losing strength when on HIT?

[thewickedtruth]

Is this normal when you first start HIT training that the second time you go about working the same body part that it's actually weaker?  I know I'm getting ample rest and plenty to eat and am only training each bodypart once a week.  Is this normal or should I heed the signs of overtraining?

[Bluto]

how long you been doing hit? might wanna stick to it for a while and see how it goes, could be a number of reasons... i dont think anyone hit overtraining just like that.

[thewickedtruth]

This would be my 2nd week into it.

[Bluto]

ok well give it some more time... i would think that if you were overtraining it would take longer before you started notice (unless of course you was pretty much beat before starting hit)

[Bluto]

no dont listen to me, im only one of the most active and most frequent posters on training q & a for 2+ years 

[Cap]

I frequently check and post here and I can't remember the last time I saw your posts about training.  And no offense but why would you be a person to talk about HIT when you don't believe in intensity.  That is a legitimate question, no attack this time.

[Bluto]

I frequently check and post here and I can't remember the last time I saw your posts about training.  And no offense but why would you be a person to talk about HIT when you don't believe in intensity.  That is a legitimate question, no attack this time.

like i said, ive been on here for over 2 years and even longer before registering. not that a newbie like you would know anything about that, you just come here and are disrespectful and act like a little bitch.
i've replied to 3 threads today alone.

this question was about overtraining, i dont believe overtraining occurs in such a short amount of time regardless on how intense your training is. if you got another opinion, let's hear it.
otherwise fuck off.

[Cap]

1. Not a newb.  Been a here a year.

2. Your posts show you to be a bitch and the only people I disrespect are you and DA.

3. He gave very little info so we don't know what is going on so you really can't say much without asking more questions.

[Bluto]

1. Not a newb.  Been a here a year.

2. Your posts show you to be a bitch and the only people I disrespect are you and DA.

3. He gave very little info so we don't know what is going on so you really can't say much without asking more questions.

most people have been registered way longer than you and been training way longer than you, which make you a newbie. in my answer to him i said that unless he trained a lot prior to HIT it unlikely would be overtraining. this is my opinion.
if yours is different - then by all means, lets hear it! otherwise why the hell do you interfer with me trying to help out (something ive been doing on here for over 2 years!) just to bitch?

[Cap]

He could be sick with a number of things that would make him tired.  Mono, low T3 levels, etc.

He might think his diet is good but could be the bare minimum.  He may not be getting full sleep cycles which I know can kill you throughout the day in terms of energy levels.

He hasn't detailed his rotuine and could be doing too much.

Cardio, if there is any, could be a problem when coupled with diet.

No mention of what else he does with his day.

But you are right, two weeks of HIT shouldn't tire you without at least one of these other things.

[figgs]

I looked at some of your workouts and it seems you're not followed exact HIT. That would most likely be the problem. For example, I know you do shoulder presses before laterals. Well, the HIT deltoid workout is simply 1 set of side laterals and 1 set of rear delts.

I don't know what else you're doing wrong but if you need a sample workout I'll be happy to post one for you.

[thewickedtruth]

I thought HIT was all drop sets with everything. Was I wrong with this assumption? I must've got some wires crossed when reading up on some of this stuff. Everything I've been doing for every body part has been all drop sets to failure.

[figgs]

I thought HIT was all drop sets with everything. Was I wrong with this assumption? I must've got some wires crossed when reading up on some of this stuff. Everything I've been doing for every body part has been all drop sets to failure.

No. No drop sets at all!

Here's a sample quad workout:

leg extensions- 1 x 8
superset with leg press- 1 x 6

[thewickedtruth]

Okay after reading all this again, this is what I did for back and triceps today.

Back: High pulls on the hammerstrength machine with 4 plates to 13 reps with the 13th being a half rep which is where I called it quits. Then right to the t-bar rows with 7 plates for 16 reps but, instead of changing exercises since there was some cheating involved with the last few, I dropped the weight down to 5 plates and finished out another 12 reps until I couldn't perform another. For my last exercise I did hammerstrength rows with 5 plates a side for 12 reps for one arm and 11 for the other and felt smoked but not overly worked. With my triceps I did underhanded cable press downs with 230lbs for 16 reps until I couldn't move it anymore. After that I switched the handles to a single grip and did pressdowns with the heaviest weight I could handle til I failed out. Was this workout better or worse? 

[davie]

Okay after reading all this again, this is what I did for back and triceps today.

Back: High pulls on the hammerstrength machine with 4 plates to 13 reps with the 13th being a half rep which is where I called it quits. Then right to the t-bar rows with 7 plates for 16 reps but, instead of changing exercises since there was some cheating involved with the last few, I dropped the weight down to 5 plates and finished out another 12 reps until I couldn't perform another. For my last exercise I did hammerstrength rows with 5 plates a side for 12 reps for one arm and 11 for the other and felt smoked but not overly worked. With my triceps I did underhanded cable press downs with 230lbs for 16 reps until I couldn't move it anymore. After that I switched the handles to a single grip and did pressdowns with the heaviest weight I could handle til I failed out. Was this workout better or worse? 

How do u feel, both after ur session, and now??

davie

[davie]

Also if ur doing HIT the way figgs does it (mentzer way),then ul need spotter/partner!!

As i recall, figgs carries out each rep slow and controlled, 4 seconds for positive, contract mucle then 4 seconds for negative.

Once he reaches absolute positive failure (cant complete a rep), hegets partner to help him in most contracted position wer he does a static hold until he can no longer hold the weight there, then his partner helps him complete the positive part of each rep while he des the negative part himself (forced reps), until he can guy do these in a slow and controlled manor.

So at the end of that extended set figgs has reached positive, static and negative failure....in theory hes reached complete muscular failure!!

Try that for 2 excerises per body part, pre-exhausting each 1st (lol).

davie

[thewickedtruth]

How do u feel, both after ur session, and now??

davie

It feels like I didn't work out at all.   

[thewickedtruth]

Also if ur doing HIT the way figgs does it (mentzer way),then ul need spotter/partner!!

As i recall, figgs carries out each rep slow and controlled, 4 seconds for positive, contract mucle then 4 seconds for negative.

Once he reaches absolute positive failure (cant complete a rep), hegets partner to help him in most contracted position wer he does a static hold until he can no longer hold the weight there, then his partner helps him complete the positive part of each rep while he des the negative part himself (forced reps), until he can guy do these in a slow and controlled manor.

So at the end of that extended set figgs has reached positive, static and negative failure....in theory hes reached complete muscular failure!!

Try that for 2 excerises per body part, pre-exhausting each 1st (lol).

davie

Oh wow! If that is how long each rep is supposed to take instead of the typical one or two second up and down then that could be why I feel like I really didn't cause much of anything as far as workout stress goes. If that's the case, it must mean you've got to bring the weight WAY down to the point where you can control it like that.

[davie]

It feels like I didn't work out at all.   

Then mayb u should address what u did, or the time u did it in, small breaks are v imnportant. My rest/pauses r about enough time to get in 10 deep breathes.

Do u have training partner?

davie

[davie]

Oh wow! If that is how long each rep is supposed to take instead of the typical one or two second up and down then that could be why I feel like I really didn't cause much of anything as far as workout stress goes. If that's the case, it must mean you've got to bring the weight WAY down to the point where you can control it like that.

Yup!

If u ask figgs he'll tell u that this type of training (as with most HIT styles) is a real ego check wen u 1st start. U have to lower weights and then build them back up again.

I personally am not training the same as figgs (at the moment), and do not have the length or reps he has, but i am training HIT and i do use about a 3 to four second negative, tho i am more explosive on the way up.

davie

[thewickedtruth]

I had no rests. I set the stations up before I started to make sure the only rest I got was walking between them.  The gym was an hour before closing so there was no one in there but me and the night desk person. It was very nice. I was very shocked though.  The last time I trained my back the week before, I could only highpull 4 plates for maybe 7 reps before failing and having to drop the weight.  This week was a huge improvement but, I did eat two plates of spagetti before I came to play. 

[davie]

I had no rests. I set the stations up before I started to make sure the only rest I got was walking between them.  The gym was an hour before closing so there was no one in there but me and the night desk person. It was very nice. I was very shocked though.  The last time I trained my back the week before, I could only highpull 4 plates for maybe 7 reps before failing and having to drop the weight.  This week was a huge improvement but, I did eat two plates of spagetti before I came to play. 

Well if thats what it takes to get the job done bro then do it!!

I have found sum of my poundages going up every week b/c im working v hard and know iv only got on chance to work as hard as possible to try and beat my rep target.

I beat my rep targets on T-bar rows, pulldowns,  incline bench, leg raise, squat, leg press, pushdowns, lat raises, preacher curl, this week and im upping the weight on each of them for next week. The only ones i didnt beat was DB shoulder press (im thinking of changing to behind neck presss as im not a fan of DB press), close grip bench press, and decline bench press. Tho these wer all with new heavy weights so il beat rep target next week.

davie

[figgs]

Sorry for taking so damn long to tune in on this. I just finished my last week of school before the holiday vacation and had soo much homework to do, plus my chimney got backed up and I had to ventilate and evacuate my house because of carbon monoxide!  Everything's all good now, thankfully. Vacation has truly begun. 

Great posts, davie!

Okay after reading all this again, this is what I did for back and triceps today.

Back: High pulls on the hammerstrength machine with 4 plates to 13 reps with the 13th being a half rep which is where I called it quits. Then right to the t-bar rows with 7 plates for 16 reps but, instead of changing exercises since there was some cheating involved with the last few, I dropped the weight down to 5 plates and finished out another 12 reps until I couldn't perform another. For my last exercise I did hammerstrength rows with 5 plates a side for 12 reps for one arm and 11 for the other and felt smoked but not overly worked. With my triceps I did underhanded cable press downs with 230lbs for 16 reps until I couldn't move it anymore. After that I switched the handles to a single grip and did pressdowns with the heaviest weight I could handle til I failed out. Was this workout better or worse? 

Man oh man you're a strong mofo. You must be very experienced, right? And it seems like you train with great intensity! With that attitude you're definetely going to receive all of the great results that Mentzer always promised. Believe that!

Yup!

If u ask figgs he'll tell u that this type of training (as with most HIT styles) is a real ego check wen u 1st start. U have to lower weights and then build them back up again.

I personally am not training the same as figgs (at the moment), and do not have the length or reps he has, but i am training HIT and i do use about a 3 to four second negative, tho i am more explosive on the way up.

davie

Oh wow! If that is how long each rep is supposed to take instead of the typical one or two second up and down then that could be why I feel like I really didn't cause much of anything as far as workout stress goes. If that's the case, it must mean you've got to bring the weight WAY down to the point where you can control it like that.

Yeah, slow reps really increase the intensity. You'll be surprised.

I really didn't like the idea of training like this because it not only is THAT much more intense but it also forced me to perform half of my previous lifts. You get used to it, once you see your strength start going up (which is literally right from the start) and then you start to appreciate it.

8 second (at least) long reps physically causes a complete reduction in the force of momentum. Momentum is all to do with how much stronger we are when we do fast reps. We're kinda throwing the weights around. It's all muscle here!!!!

I had no rests. I set the stations up before I started to make sure the only rest I got was walking between them.  The gym was an hour before closing so there was no one in there but me and the night desk person. It was very nice. I was very shocked though.  The last time I trained my back the week before, I could only highpull 4 plates for maybe 7 reps before failing and having to drop the weight.  This week was a huge improvement but, I did eat two plates of spagetti before I came to play. 

That's just like HIT! I too have to set up all the weights we're going to use before I even start the first set.

7-13 reps increase is incredible!! That must have been an awesome day. haha

I love training in an empty gym. The time I have to go are the busiest hours and living in NY doesn't help the situation. So I'm like doing these crazy workouts using baby weights while all these idiots (whether they're there to talk on the cell phone, read People magazine, or hook up and hang out) stare at me as if I'm a lunatic. So tomorrow is chest and back, and I'll be able to train in a somewhat peaceful environment since it's saturday.

Well if thats what it takes to get the job done bro then do it!!

I have found sum of my poundages going up every week b/c im working v hard and know iv only got on chance to work as hard as possible to try and beat my rep target.

I beat my rep targets on T-bar rows, pulldowns,  incline bench, leg raise, squat, leg press, pushdowns, lat raises, preacher curl, this week and im upping the weight on each of them for next week. The only ones i didnt beat was DB shoulder press (im thinking of changing to behind neck presss as im not a fan of DB press), close grip bench press, and decline bench press. Tho these wer all with new heavy weights so il beat rep target next week.

davie

Great attitude! You know you're beating those lifts next week!

Your altered version of HIT is really working great! I'm impressed!  Are you going to continue with your routine until you plateau?

[thewickedtruth]

Hey thanks figgs. I really appreciate you giving such and indepth reply to my thread. At least people can see what the three of us are getting out of this. Strong in what sense? I'm not what I would consider strong by any means. I'm a post op patient and I'm not using weights I'd consider heavy for a few reasons. One, I'm not wanting to work things out too fast this soon after surgery and two, I can honestly say that I'm scared I'll reinjure myself so using these weights helps me feel like I'm doing work with decent weight without much risk. Yes, haha, the last back day I had was awesome and I'm sure the added strength came from me eating alot about and hour before my workout. I found out what I was doing prior to my last workout was called beyond failure training instead of HIT. I'm thinking I'll try HIT after the next couple of weeks of BFT.  HIT is an ego check and I liked the fact that it was a slap in the face to show me that you need to train in more than one way. The only thing I haven't changed up is my leg training. I like the size of my legs as they are now and they're plenty strong.

[thewickedtruth]

Want to know what else is funny? I struggle with wide grip lat pulldowns with about 230 or so pounds on the weight stack yet I can highpull (almost like a chinning motion) 4 plates on the hammer strength machine unilaterally without much issue. It does make me wonder about myself at times. I do tend to prioritize and train on a new piece of equipment or motion that I find myself weaker in until I've mastered it. I used to do cable rows with the standard closed grip handle attachment until someone posted a video here of a pro bodybuilder training. I'm not sure who it was but, they were doing cable rows with a wide grip bar with an underhand grip and I love how this new way of doing it feels.