train each muscle group once a week or twice???

[mdgkmg]

i currently hit each muscle group twice a week with 20-30 working sets for each muscle(30 on the larger muscles a little less on the smaller ones). i've recently considered training each part with higher volume and intensity but only  hitting it once a week? its tempting. what do you think?

[Jeff Miller]

20-30 sets twice a week seems really high to me.  Has it worked for you?

[pumpster]

I think twice a week's better, but with a lot less volume than you're using.

Why not try twice a week but with higher intensity, using 8-14 sets per muscle for a while, more sets for the bigger muscles. Also try once a week while maintaining the same high volume you're on, see which works better.

[natural al]

1st it depends how hard you train in the gym, don't say "well I do 20 sets" are you working hard for those 20 sets?  If you're really working hard you shouldn't be able to train more than once a week-if you're natural that is.  More isn't always better especially when it comes to natural guys, I feel into the pit of the "2 workouts a week per bodypart on a double split of 2 on 1 off" when I was younger cause that's what the mags said to do at the time.  Trust me, once a week is more than enough if you're kicking your own ass each time you go in.

[mdgkmg]

yes working it twice a week with that volume has worked for me. and yes i push just about every set to failure. and yes i'm natural. my only problem with training each bodypart twice a week is the amount i have to do each day and the fact that at the end of my workouts i'm pretty tired not sore tired. i can't remember any next day soreness for a long while now.

[pumpster]

yes working it twice a week with that volume has worked for me. and yes i push just about every set to failure. and yes i'm natural. my only problem with training each bodypart twice a week is the amount i have to do each day and the fact that at the end of my workouts i'm pretty tired not sore tired. i can't remember any next day soreness for a long while now.

This should be giving you a clue that it's not as effective as it should be, considering the kind of tired you're describing which is not the good kind. You should be paying attention to it.

I believe that 2-3 times a week per muscle's better, because it doesn't take more than 2-3 days for recovery between workouts unless you're doing the kind of marathons you've described. If you reduce the sets and add more intensity, you'll make more progress and reduce the tiredness without burning out on twice a week training. If you know how to train and have good intensity, you can be more efficient & fry the muscle in less sets, making additional sets absolutely pointless.

Try it and you'll probably find you're making the same or better progress without the lengthy, tiring workouts.

[mdgkmg]

This should be giving you a clue that it's not as effective as it should be, considering the kind of tired you're describing.

I believe that 2-3 times a week per muscle's better, because it doesn't take more than 2-3 days for recovery between workouts unless you're doing the kind of marathons you've described. If you reduce the sets and add more intensity, you'll make more progress and reduce the tiredness without burning out on twice a week training.

Try it and you'll probably find you're making the same or better progress without the lengthy, tiring workouts.

so what you're recommending is to train it twice a week just with less volume, and taking every set to failure or beyond?

[pumpster]

so what you're recommending is to train it twice a week just with less volume, and taking every set to failure or beyond?

2-3 times a week, moderate volume 6-9 sets on smaller muscles, 8-14 sets or so where you want to hit muscles like lats from more angles. Positive failure on most or all sets, then take it into negative failure on 1 or at most 2 sets per exercise using rest-pause, cheats, negatives, etc. Bottom line is increasing the reps or weight however possible using cheats, rest-pause, etc., while keeping the reps moderate (8-10) and sets moderate.

If you do that, the muscle is fried in no time, making the extra sets pointless.I can no longer justify heavy volume after finding exercises that are highly effective and applying good intensity. 

Important to experiment & find the most effective exercises that are felt deeply in the muscles, not necessarily what the book tells you is most effective.

[mdgkmg]

2-3 times a week, moderate volume 6-9 sets on smaller muscles, 8-14 sets or so where you want to hit muscles like lats from more angles. Positive failure on most or all sets, then take it into negative failure on 1 or at most 2 sets per exercise using rest-pause, cheats, negatives, etc. Bottom line is increasing the reps or weight however possible using cheats, rest-pause, etc., while keeping the reps moderate (8-10) and sets moderate.

If you do that, the muscle is fried in no time, making the extra sets pointless.I can no longer justify heavy volume after finding exercises that are highly effective and applying good intensity. 

sounds like that might work. i'll give it a try and see how it does. thanx.

[NoCalBbEr]

20-30 is overkill. how do you find that many movements to do for a bodypart.  i train everything once a week and 9-12 sets..

if you like the 2x a week then do a pull/push..... doing that many set you have to be doing drugs or just overtraining yourself..

[Bluto]

twice a week, or even more is fine. just just need to cut down on the intensity and not going to failure all the time.

[Jeff Miller]

20-30 is overkill. how do you find that many movements to do for a bodypart.  i train everything once a week and 9-12 sets..

Actually, its not that hard if you follow some of the workouts published in FLEX 

[blondmusclhunk]

Try once a week heavy and hard.  Your body will get the best rest and recuperation.  Ive made some friends switch to the once a week thing and they have made great gains.  Ive tried twice a week but I feel my muscles have not completely rested.

[Cold]

once a week makes my muscles do magical things.  like disapppearing with the quickness.

[loco]

yes working it twice a week with that volume has worked for me. and yes i push just about every set to failure. and yes i'm natural. my only problem with training each bodypart twice a week is the amount i have to do each day and the fact that at the end of my workouts i'm pretty tired not sore tired. i can't remember any next day soreness for a long while now.

If all of these are true, then it will continue to work for you just fine, for a while.  Then, you'll get hurt, or you will stop making gains and eventually you will start losing muscle mass.  Unless, you are a natural freak who produces above normal amounts of natural testosterone, or unless you start using steroids. 

How long it takes a well worked muscle to recover is different for different people.  There are way too many variables to know exactly how long, genetics, age, stress, food, sleep, supplements, drugs, etc.  If you are natural, the safest thing to do is to work your muscles as hard as you can, once a week, for 8-10 weeks, then take a week off.

1st it depends how hard you train in the gym, don't say "well I do 20 sets" are you working hard for those 20 sets?  If you're really working hard you shouldn't be able to train more than once a week-if you're natural that is.  More isn't always better especially when it comes to natural guys, I feel into the pit of the "2 workouts a week per bodypart on a double split of 2 on 1 off" when I was younger cause that's what the mags said to do at the time.  Trust me, once a week is more than enough if you're kicking your own ass each time you go in.

Great post.

Try once a week heavy and hard.  Your body will get the best rest and recuperation.  Ive made some friends switch to the once a week thing and they have made great gains.  Ive tried twice a week but I feel my muscles have not completely rested.

I agree.

[canadaphiliac]

I do a twice a week high volume split. The first workout is low reps, and the second is just a lighter day with higher reps to pump blood into the muscle. How I've set it up is that whichever muscle was paired with which, it gets paired with a different one the next time. So whichever muscle I train first, that's its heavy day, and the secondary muscle(s) is a light day. Dunno if any of you have tried anything like that, but I feel it's worked for me and helped reduce recovery time.

[GET_BIGGER]

My intensity is too high for hitting more than one muscle group a day, not saying this is good or bad or your not hitting it hard enough, so basically my answer would be once a week.  I think most people underestimate the recovery period for themselves.  Best thing for you to do is try a month with each routine and see what feels better.  Let your body tell you.