Where are the high intensity champions if HIT works?

[alexxx]

did you ever train at that gym that Ferrigno trained at in Pumping Iron, bmacys?

He was the guy in the background curling the 10 pounders!

[Bluto]

Figgs, I have been a fan of Mentzer and his ideas about training since I started lifting in my friend Gaetano's basement in his house in Brooklyn in 1978.

that should give you nearly 30 years of experience training mentzer-style, hows that been working out for you? and how many days of rest between training different musclegroups are you up to know?

[The Squadfather]

He was the guy in the background curling the 10 pounders!

i don't think so, Bmacys seems like a fairly strong guy.

[alexxx]

i don't think so, Bmacys seems like a fairly strong guy.

Do tell..

[Bluto]

if he's been working out for 30 years he should be.

[bmacsys]

that should give you nearly 30 years of experience training mentzer-style, hows that been working out for you? and how many days of rest between training different musclegroups are you up to know?

I think I am like most guys who have trained a long time. I have taken extended layoffs. Gotten burnt out and quit. Joined the USMC. Got married and had kids. But I always start lifting again because after a while it gets in your blood. I have trained volume and HIT style but never like Mentzer advocated. I just basically cut my volume by 60% and was just as big and strong as when I did 20 sets per body part. I think most guys could get big and strong doing less volume than they are doing. We all have noticed the guy who spends hours in the gym but does a set every ten minutes. My thing is you have to lift heavy and push yourself. If you are doing 20 sets per body part and are natural I think you have to be coasting for a few sets. These are sets you could eliminate.

[bmacsys]

that should give you nearly 30 years of experience training mentzer-style, hows that been working out for you? and how many days of rest between training different musclegroups are you up to know?

I workout every other day. Doing a hybrid routine. I also ride the bike for a half hour at a pretty good clip.

[bmacsys]

did you ever train at that gym that Ferrigno trained at in Pumping Iron, bmacys?

No but I knew a guy who worked at the sheetmetal place Louie worked at. He said Louie wasn't all there mentally.

[MisterMagoo]

If you are doing 20 sets per body part and are natural I think you have to be coasting for a few sets. These are sets you could eliminate.

depends on what you count by "sets". i usually do around 10 sets of my main lift, but at least seven of them could be called warmups. and if you add up what i do during the week you'd probably tell me i'm overtraining my triceps but you'd be wrong. wednesday i'll do those sets of bench, then incline or some dumbells, then some kind of shoulder pressing. saturday it's close-grip bench, rack lockouts or board presses, sometimes some shirt work, usually standing shoulder presses if i did seated on wednesday, then pressdowns to finish up.

yet, so far i haven't overtrained. amazing.

[pumpster]

did you ever train at that gym that Ferrigno trained at in Pumping Iron, bmacys?

R&J Health Club was just a hole in the wall-Ferrigno only returned there from Gold's to train at the request of George Butler.

[SteelePegasus]

depends on what you count by "sets". i usually do around 10 sets of my main lift, but at least seven of them could be called warmups. and if you add up what i do during the week you'd probably tell me i'm overtraining my triceps but you'd be wrong. wednesday i'll do those sets of bench, then incline or some dumbells, then some kind of shoulder pressing. saturday it's close-grip bench, rack lockouts or board presses, sometimes some shirt work, usually standing shoulder presses if i did seated on wednesday, then pressdowns to finish up.

yet, so far i haven't overtrained. amazing.

It is always interesting that guys who look like they don't workout are concerned about over training.  They should more concerned with under training.

[pumpster]

It is always interesting that guys who look like they don't workout are concerned about over training.  They should more concerned with under training.

That would possibly mean admitting that it's really about laziness, not "resting the CNS".

[MisterMagoo]

It is always interesting that guys who look like they don't workout are concerned about over training.  They should more concerned with under training.

when i talked with a few drug-free powerlifters who did workouts that sounded like two combined in one, i realized i needed to really re-think my definition of "overtraining".

[getfast81]

Lee Labradas training routine is/was the best example of HIT training, then of course BIG DIESEL Yates!!!   

[Van_Bilderass]

Here's the fucking secret motherfuckers: PROGRESSION!!! There is research that shows clearly that the load is the prime factor in hypertrophy. PRIME factor! Not the only factor but the most important factor.

Forget about failure, DOMS, and everything else... do a routine that allows you to increase loads over time using a reasonable volume.

If you have been training with the same loads for the past 3 years you most likely haven't grown, unless you added a bunch drugs.

[pumpster]

Here's the fucking secret motherfuckers: PROGRESSION!!! There is research that shows clearly that the load is the prime factor in hypertrophy. PRIME factor! Not the only factor but the most important factor.

Forget about failure, DOMS, and everything else... do a routine that allows you to increase loads over time using a reasonable volume.

You've tried to separate out symbiotic relationships that aren't divisible. Optimal progression & overload require & are enhanced by intensity and failure. They're not separate, which is exactly why the classic term is progressive overload (both words, not one or the other)..

It ain't happening by going through the motions taking it easy, it requires that the muscles be forced to do more work than they're used to, after which adaptation occurs, ie. growth.

[Van_Bilderass]

You've got part of it while neglecting other keys. Like the fact that progression & overload require & are enhanced by intensity and failure. They're not separate and divisible, exactly why the classic term is progressive overload (both words, not one or the other)..

It ain't happening by going through the motions taking it easy, it requires that the muscles be forced to do more work they're not used to, after which adaptation occurs, called growth.

I go to failure frequently. I do not think something magical happens when you hit that point though. If you get good progression hitting failure frequently then keep doing that. Some may not need to or even start to regress by training too "hard". That's the point.

If you deadlift 500 x 5 and progress to 700 x 5, even if you never hit failure during that period you'll grow just fine.

[pumpster]

I go to failure frequently. I do not think something magical happens when you hit that point though. If you get good progression hitting failure frequently then keep doing that. Some may not need to or even start to regress by training too "hard". That's the point.

If you deadlift 500 x 5 and progress to 700 x 5, even if you never hit failure during that period you'll grow just fine.

Disagree, because the whole point is to subject the muscles to increasing stress to create adaptation, which isn't happening by going through the motions. Failure is in fact the existing point the muscles can already handle, which must be exceeded to force adaptation. Something like the 20 minute threshold point of cardio, after which time the body starts serious fat-burning.

Besides which, it's only through maximal effort that you're absolutely sure that full potential's being realized. Without max. effort, there's no assurance of max. gains, is there?

[Van_Bilderass]

That point can be argued, though i wouldn't, for the simple fact that it's only through maximal effort that you're absolutely sure that full potential's being realized.

Well I can be sure if I start to regress every time I hit absolute failure. If a maximal set always leaves me drained and makes my poundages go down next workout I know it's not a system that allows me to grow the fastest way possible. And don't give me that Mentzer crap about having to lengthen the rest period between workouts if progress slows.

[pumpster]

If you're really that drained by maxing out take up golf. Others with balls don't have this problem & actually embrace the pain, seriously. Going through the motions with minimal-effort with pumping sets is LAME as well as unathletic. Wasn't it Schwarzenegger saying in PI "a willingness to take the pain, no matter what".

[Van_Bilderass]

Besides which, it's only through maximal effort that you're absolutely sure that full potential's being realized. Without max. effort, there's no assurance of max. gains, is there?

No you are making an error in thinking here. More efforts doesn't always mean more results.

[MisterMagoo]

Well I can be sure if I start to regress every time I hit absolute failure. If a maximal set always leaves me drained and makes my poundages go down next workout I know it's not a system that allows me to grow the fastest way possible. And don't give me that Mentzer crap about having to lengthen the rest period between workouts if progress slows.

i agree. positive failure is my thing. if i miss a lift, that's when the set ends. trying to grind out partials, forced reps, or drop setting had always destroyed me. i can do heavy singles and triples all week long, but it's the whole "absolute failure" thing that's hurt me.

[Van_Bilderass]

If you're really that drained by maxing out take up golf. Others with balls don't have this problem & actually embrace the pain, seriously. Going through the motions with minimal-effort with pumping sets is LAME as well as unathletic.

Dude I bet I'm WAY stronger than you and train much harder. I KNOW what hard training is. I'll give an example my deadlift has progressed from 600 x 5 to 660 x 5 the last few months and I only hit failure once, by mistake, during this period. That set where I hit failure was too draining and it set me back 2 weeks.

[pumpster]

More efforts DO make a difference when applied intelligently, as i've explained. Wrong again.

[The Squadfather]

Dude I bet I'm WAY stronger than you and train much harder. I KNOW what hard training is. I'll give an example my deadlift has progressed from 600 x 5 to 660 x 5 the last few months and I only hit failure once, by mistake, during this period. That set where I hit failure was too draining and it set me back 2 weeks.

oh brother, another internet strength god.