.

[jem123]

I think all 3 groups are quite good.

Ethiopians and Kenyans for distance. Nigerians for sprinting.

[pumpster]

Well I'm going to sit on the fence somewhat, however I have argued with Pumpster before about Ronnie being good at Footbal just because of his strength which I still find laughable.

Anyway In dear old Blighty we have a champion BB called Eddy Ellwood who took to strongmen a while back, he was ridiculously strong (not in Ronnies bracket) but he turned to it and was bad real bad, then he began to train properly not just using weights all the time etc but actually practising the events and training for the events and actually improving.

He became a contender over here and was really well liked and i think he became our champion in 2003.


So there is an example of a successful BB becoming a good strongman so it can be done.

That being said if Ronnie did convert whats to say he would be good?? He might be he may take to it well but technique is as much a part as anything else.

As for him and Mariusz they are both the best around imo or Ronnie was at least but the height thing disscussed earlier would be important too imo.

But if it happens then great it would be sooooooo interesting


ta ta

YourMaaaa (did i leave out an "a"?) and i agree-bottom line it would be major-league interesting and as i've said before, great publicity for Coleman & BB that would widen the audience as was done in the 70s.

[pumpster]

bone, muscle and overall structure have alot to do with sport in general... with strong man comps and powerlifting this is especially true... like building a bridge...

ronnie has super small joints for his size, which is why he's been so successfull at bodybuilding...

however small joints arent the friend of powerlifters/ strongman...

granted ronnie IS strong, and may do well in local powerlifting events... there is no way he would be successful at an elite level

ronnie would have to be 10 years younger and train for 4 years to be able to compete in a strongman event, he'd have to trim down considerably to even have a shot... the guy isnt mobile, and even walking up a flight of stairs must get him winded

with that said, could ronnie compete at a super elite level "the worlds strongest man".... no way no chance...

ronnies the greatest, strongest, biggest, and leanest BB of all time... thats enough

Incredible speculation taken as fact. What a theory-those "small joints" (that have squatted 800)
are now a problem? Jesus this is really desperate reaching for any justification at all, when no one knows. Frightening thinking-inside-the-box.

[pumpster]

I think Ronnie has/had a lot of potential, because he was good enough of an athlete to play college football, but it takes years to master these events.  There is a lot more skill involved that what many people are giving credit for.

How do you know it takes years? Outline previous guys and the lengthy experience they had..

[pumpster]

All I get is that you were disrespectful in replying to my post.  Yes, it is speculation.  The thread starter asked for oppinions, so aI gave mine.  Bottom line, franco and ferrigno both faired poorly in their WSM events... and neither of them were pumping the ammounts of anabolics, insulin, IGF, GH, etc. that ronnie has done, and I seriously doubt he will be physically able, even WITH the training and conditioning for WSM to have much of an impact, if any.

You don't seem to understand the great publicity it was for them and for BB. And Coleman would quite likely do better than either of them.

Neither Ferrigno or Columbu has the years of experience-the experts here are wrong in their silly assumptions that it is a prerequisite. They didn't have much experience, and placed 4th & 5th!!!!!!! This is poor? Great publicity for them and for BB!

World's Strongest Man
1977 - Universal Studios, California
--- ---------------------    --------------    ---------  ---------
 1. Bruce Wilhelm           (United States)    63.25 pts.
 2. Bob Young               (United States)    43.25 pts.
 3. Ken Patera              (United States)    34    pts.
 4. Lou Ferrigno            (United States)    27.5  pts.
 5. Franco Columbu          (Italy)            22.25 pts.
 6. Jon Cole                (United States)    21.5  pts.
 7. Mike Dayton             (United States)    19.25 pts.
 8. George Frenn            (United States)    10    pts.
 

[MisterMagoo]

You don't seem to understand the great publicity it was for them and for BB. And Coleman would quite likely do better than either of them. Neither of them did poorly even without years of prep.

that was also in the 1970s when a guy like bill kazmaier was able to set powerlifting records and also dominate WSM. unless you haven't noticed, no one since has been able to do the same. the sport has changed, it's advanced. you are the one speculating here.

[pumpster]

that was also in the 1970s when a guy like bill kazmaier was able to set powerlifting records and also dominate WSM. unless you haven't noticed, no one since has been able to do the same. the sport has changed, it's advanced. you are the one speculating here.

These are excuses. No compelling reasons not to, other than taking a pessimist's point of view.

[MisterMagoo]

These are excuses. Nothing in what you and others have said indicates many negatives.

okay, let's drop the personal battle here for a moment and just go with pure logic, okay? disregarding everything else, let's examine things.

the competition was very different in franco competed. the competitors were of a different caliber. the sports were in their infancies. these days both the WSM and IFSA are advanced, the events are very specific and require more than just the ability to bench press and squat a lot. back then it was a lot of squatting, farmer's walking, flips, truck pulling etc.

now you've got hercules holds, atlas stones, fingal fingers, that one event where they walk in a circle supporting a heavy pole on their forearms. the 2006 event had the guys walking through water while carrying barrels even.

ronnie coleman is a very, very strong man in the gym. he can deadlift a lot, squat a lot, bench a lot, etc. but he has no experience with these lifts. the difference is similar to having a huge smith squat and then going for a free bar. the coordination and the skill aren't there.

in addition, his brute strength in the gym is below his competition. the barrel squat involves doing reps with increasing weight that ends at almost 800 pounds. now ronnie can squat that, but he needs a suit and wraps, neither of which are allowed. the deadlift reps for 2006 was 660 pounds (i think), and the winner got around 15.

now, ronnie is an advanced athlete. but he would need to make some severe changes to his body and his skills to make any kind of damage. there are top-class powerlifters, guys who already compete in strength sports, who are unable to make this change and do well. it's foolish to assume that simply because he's good in ONE sport that doesn't mean he'd be good in another one, and bodybuilding is a lot more different from strongman than powerlifting is.

even assuming, for no good reason, that ronnie were capable of making the switch, he's far older than the competition and his body is getting worse thanks to the tears and such. it would take at least two or three years before he'd start to get good at the events and streamline his body, which would put him at 45 plus. with a torn tricep, quad, and lat, what makes you think he could put his body through that successfully?

that's my last post on the subject.

[pumpster]

even assuming, for no good reason, that ronnie were capable of making the switch, he's far older than the competition and his body is getting worse thanks to the tears and such. it would take at least two or three years before he'd start to get good at the events and streamline his body, which would put him at 45 plus. with a torn tricep, quad, and lat, what makes you think he could put his body through that successfully?

that's my last post on the subject.

I've already mentioned that the age is one of the only real serious factors. However, it's not sufficient in and of itself to preclude a good performance, as it's an unknown.

As far as how long it would take to get good at the events, that's utter speculation. Largely dependant on the amount of prep time expended.

[MisterMagoo]

I've already mentioned that the age is one of the only real serious factors. However, it's not sufficient in and of itself to preclude a good performance, as it's an unknown.

As far as how long it would take to get good at the events, that's utter speculation. Largely dependant on the amount of prep time expended.

well that's what i mean (to go back on my promise to stop posting). the two biggest factors are age and just his ability to make the switch. strongman isn't just about who's the strongest. you have to have endurance and some serious coordination. did you watch 2006? the prelims had them lifting stones of various shapes overhead.

it's speculation on your part as well as mine. we're both speculating on whether or not he'd be able to do so, but you can't use franco as an example because of how long ago that was. and the fact that after him and ferrigno, it didn't happen again.

[swoody]

You don't seem to understand the great publicity it was for them and for BB. And Coleman would quite likely do better than either of them.

Neither Ferrigno or Columbu has the years of experience-the experts here are wrong in their silly assumptions that it is a prerequisite. They didn't have much experience, and placed 4th & 5th!!!!!!! This is poor? Great publicity for them and for BB!

World's Strongest Man
1977 - Universal Studios, California
--- ---------------------    --------------    ---------  ---------
 1. Bruce Wilhelm           (United States)    63.25 pts.
 2. Bob Young               (United States)    43.25 pts.
 3. Ken Patera              (United States)    34    pts.
 4. Lou Ferrigno            (United States)    27.5  pts.
 5. Franco Columbu          (Italy)            22.25 pts.
 6. Jon Cole                (United States)    21.5  pts.
 7. Mike Dayton             (United States)    19.25 pts.
 8. George Frenn            (United States)    10    pts.
 

I agree.  It would be GREAT publicity for BBing... get it out of the underground and such... Unfortunately, I just don't see Coleman in WSM happening.

[pumpster]

it's speculation on your part as well as mine. we're both speculating on whether or not he'd be able to do so, but you can't use franco as an example because of how long ago that was. and the fact that after him and ferrigno, it didn't happen again.

No, there's a difference. My point is that it's virtually a no-lose situation for BB and Coleman, which you don't get because you're mired in negative-only rationalizations that may or may not be true. The "transition" you keep claiming as a barrier to serious entry hasn't been proven; no such problems for Ferrigno or Columbu, which entirely discredits your theory.

[pumpster]

I agree.  It would be GREAT publicity for BBing... get it out of the underground and such... Unfortunately, I just don't see Coleman in WSM happening.

Thanks; this seems to be rocket-science for those who only think small.

[Hedgehog]

because he doesn't train for the others, dingus. he's not the strongest in any of the main lifts, let alone in any of the goofy lifts they make strongman competitors do. just because he can heave-row 495 for a few and deadlift 805 with straps doesn't mean he'd be able to do the barrel throw or fingal fingers. Even the best powerlifters get their asses handed to them in strongman until they've been doing it for a while.

honestly i'd think his heavy reliance on straps would ruin him as well. he never does rows, shrugs, pulldowns, or deadlifts without straps, so his grip is probably shite.

ronnie coleman, weighing over 300 pounds ripped, has not one lift that would pass in a powerlifting competition. giving him the benefit of the doubt he might have a deadlift in the low 700s and a squat around the same, with maybe a 500 bench raw. Now a 1900 total isn't anything terrible, but consider brian siders.

siders is a guy who has a squat in the 800s, a 650 bench, and a dead also around the 800 mark, logging a total over 2300 in the NERB raw competition. his strongman performances have been good, but he's not going to fight mariusz any time soon. granted that's in a different strongman fed, and maybe ronnie would do all right in the other, but i doubt that as well since he just doesn't do those lifts.

Amazingly, both Siders AND Benni Magnusson, arguably the best deadlifter in the world, got their asses kicked by Big Z in the Hummer Deadlift this year.

Ronnie ain't even in the same ballpark as Benni when it comes to deadlifting. How the hell is he then going to hang with someone who kicks Benni's ass?

That's just not going to happen.

Still, I believe Ronnie would do real well. Real well as in place in the middle of the pack in most events if he choose to compete in the WSM World Series, the lesser of the two organisations.

If he went with IFSA, he would be up against much stronger competition, and place a bit lower IMO.

BTW, Ronnie definitely is likely to have grip issues due to his usage of straps on everything.

-Hedge

[carvedoutofwood]

okay, let's drop the personal battle here for a moment and just go with pure logic, okay? disregarding everything else, let's examine things.

the competition was very different in franco competed. the competitors were of a different caliber. the sports were in their infancies. these days both the WSM and IFSA are advanced, the events are very specific and require more than just the ability to bench press and squat a lot. back then it was a lot of squatting, farmer's walking, flips, truck pulling etc.

now you've got hercules holds, atlas stones, fingal fingers, that one event where they walk in a circle supporting a heavy pole on their forearms. the 2006 event had the guys walking through water while carrying barrels even.

ronnie coleman is a very, very strong man in the gym. he can deadlift a lot, squat a lot, bench a lot, etc. but he has no experience with these lifts. the difference is similar to having a huge smith squat and then going for a free bar. the coordination and the skill aren't there.

in addition, his brute strength in the gym is below his competition. the barrel squat involves doing reps with increasing weight that ends at almost 800 pounds. now ronnie can squat that, but he needs a suit and wraps, neither of which are allowed. the deadlift reps for 2006 was 660 pounds (i think), and the winner got around 15.

now, ronnie is an advanced athlete. but he would need to make some severe changes to his body and his skills to make any kind of damage. there are top-class powerlifters, guys who already compete in strength sports, who are unable to make this change and do well. it's foolish to assume that simply because he's good in ONE sport that doesn't mean he'd be good in another one, and bodybuilding is a lot more different from strongman than powerlifting is.

even assuming, for no good reason, that ronnie were capable of making the switch, he's far older than the competition and his body is getting worse thanks to the tears and such. it would take at least two or three years before he'd start to get good at the events and streamline his body, which would put him at 45 plus. with a torn tricep, quad, and lat, what makes you think he could put his body through that successfully?

that's my last post on the subject.

good post... agreed.... theres no way ronnie could touch 660 x 15... infact without a suit and raps he'd maybe get 2 in a super controlled enviornment...

Incredible speculation taken as fact. What a theory-those "small joints" (that have squatted 800)
are now a problem? Jesus this is really desperate reaching for any justification at all, when no one knows. Frightening thinking-inside-the-box.

zero speculation...
sorry pumpster your confused, you underestimate the advantage of wearing a lifting suit and wraps... knee wraps and body suits serve one main purpose, to increase the strength of an individuals joints... NO modern SM competitor has a waist or joints nearly as small as ronnies...

[MisterMagoo]

No, there's a difference. My point is that it's virtually a no-lose situation for BB and Coleman, which you don't get because you're mired in negative-only rationalizations that may or may not be true. The "transition" you keep claiming as a barrier to serious entry hasn't been proven; no such problems for Ferrigno or Columbu, which entirely discredits your theory.

but until now you NEVER mentioned publicity, you're just scrounging for things to be "right" about. and you can't keep using ferrigno and columbu as examples, for the reason hedge and i keep pointing out. here it is again, though:

back in the 1980s bill kazmaier was a record-setter in powerlifting. he went to WSM and won three in a row, so dominant he wasn't invited back until 1988. two decades later brian siders and benedikt magnusson, record setting powerlifters themselves, got their asses handed to them in strongman competitions. the sport has advanced since the 1970s, why are you ignoring that?

there have been no top-level bodybuilders who won strongman competitions since those two, nor have there been any powerlifters who switched. there have been no powerlifters or strongmen who won bodybuilding. what will happen is just the reverse of someone like andy fiedler: he'll go from a top-level bodybuilder and become a middle-of-the-pack strongman. he'll do pretty well, but he won't be near the top. honestly i'd be surprised if he even made it into the finals.

[MisterMagoo]

If he went with IFSA, he would be up against much stronger competition, and place a bit lower IMO.

-Hedge

the IFSA is a very different competition, though. it might be more geared toward ronnie's strengths. WSM does the long rep-outs, mariusz getting 14 on the log lift or whoever getting 16 on the deadlift. the ISA is more one-rep strength as per savickas's 440 lb log lift. ronnie squats heavy but does a lot of other stuff high-rep, so i wonder which he'd be better at.

[rccs]

Most of the WSM competitors, except Mariuz, couldn't do half of a Ronnie training. I am sure that Ronnie, or Ruhl, or J Jakson could do serious damage in WSM, it is a matter of training. These bbers are used to lift heavy weigths, so they only hand to change their routines and start doing the exercices of the event. Do you really think that with proper taining Ruhl or Ronnie couldn't reach top 5? Yes they could, especially on the press movements. Look at Mariusz, the guy looks like a very good bber and still is the BEST athlete in WSM. There are no absoluts truths in these kind of sports. How many SG could win an Olympia title? For the record, I really enjoy WSM and I would prefer doing it rather than bbing, but we mus see things as they are, just because a guy is a bber doesn't mean he can't do other sports. Like I read before an athlete is an athlete. My favourite is Mariusz, he could do well in several sports, can't say the same of some WSM or some Pler, that are way to fat to do anything else.

[JimmyThomson]

Eddie Ellwood, the NABBA pro Universe 5 time winner 1997-2001 turned to strongman around 2002 at the age of 40. At 6ft 1 and 275 he competed in Britains strongest man several times and always won his heat and dominated every event. In the final he would be ahead after the first few events and making the others look like boys until something snapped in his body such as a bicep or calf. This went on at the Britains strongest man 2002, 2003 and 20004 and was frustrating because up until the snap he made the rest of the competitors look like nothing and these guys would go on and place top 10 in world's strongest man.  
A lot of guys said he had spent too long building pretty boy muscles which were not suited to the events of strongman (ie he was so strong in the basic movements that after a few events the "weakest link" would snap) especially during the loading type events.

[Your MAAAAaaaa]

Most of the WSM competitors, except Mariuz, couldn't do half of a Ronnie training. I am sure that Ronnie, or Ruhl, or J Jakson could do serious damage in WSM, it is a matter of training. These bbers are used to lift heavy weigths, so they only hand to change their routines and start doing the exercices of the event. Do you really think that with proper taining Ruhl or Ronnie couldn't reach top 5? Yes they could, especially on the press movements. Look at Mariusz, the guy looks like a very good bber and still is the BEST athlete in WSM. There are no absoluts truths in these kind of sports. How many SG could win an Olympia title? For the record, I really enjoy WSM and I would prefer doing it rather than bbing, but we mus see things as they are, just because a guy is a bber doesn't mean he can't do other sports. Like I read before an athlete is an athlete. My favourite is Mariusz, he could do well in several sports, can't say the same of some WSM or some Pler, that are way to fat to do anything else.

Your speculating to such a high level here!

These guys could do well but saying Ronnie or Ruhl could reach the top 5 is silly how do you know this? What Strongman competition are you basing this statement on?

They could in the sense that I could to but it ain't happening but hell my dog could out do them soon if some mad scientist comes along and does something amazing. Lets keepthis in the realms of reality

yes they have potential but thats all, hell they may just hate doing it and lack motivation, they may not have the balance the grip the skill to perform certain events.

Its speculation at the moment so given cast iron predictions is stupid


ta ta

[Your MAAAAaaaa]

but he has improved and is good, so there is hope for other BB's in this area.

ta ta

[pumpster]

Most of the WSM competitors, except Mariuz, couldn't do half of a Ronnie training. I am sure that Ronnie, or Ruhl, or J Jakson could do serious damage in WSM, it is a matter of training. These bbers are used to lift heavy weigths, so they only hand to change their routines and start doing the exercices of the event. Do you really think that with proper taining Ruhl or Ronnie couldn't reach top 5? Yes they could, especially on the press movements.

Of course; these guys try desperately to make it complicated, as though Coleman has to have the same numbers as these other guys to be in the game, when the events are not exacty the same as lifting.

It's not that complicated guys, (1) Coleman would be solid at least, and (2) it would be huge positive publicity. Get your heads out of the sand.

[pumpster]

zero speculation...
sorry pumpster your confused, you underestimate the advantage of wearing a lifting suit and wraps... knee wraps and body suits serve one main purpose, to increase the strength of an individuals joints... NO modern SM competitor has a waist or joints nearly as small as ronnies...

No, you're mired in the specifics of actual weightlifting, which is not WSM. Different animals that render the specifics you keep mentioning less relevant.

[pumpster]

but until now you NEVER mentioned publicity, you're just scrounging for things to be "right" about. and you can't keep using ferrigno and columbu as examples, for the reason hedge and i keep pointing out. here it is again, though:

Not only have i been mentioning publicity incessantly, i've also made clear he only has to do solidly to generate tremendous positive publicity for himself and BB outside of the niche BB audience. How many times do i have to say it for you to get that the downsides of his entry are minimal vs. the upsides. Is it really as complicated as you make it?

[leonp1981]

I'm just gonna throw another couple of factors in here:

1. With the number of injuries he picked up this last year coming in to the Olympia, could his body take the strain of this type of extremely heavy training?

2. The WSM is drug tested (Yes, they all probably still use), but I doubt Ronnie has ever had to come off the gear to be 'clean' for any tests before, so how would his strength levels be without the constant juice?  All of these weights people are saying he can do are all during bulking periods and with obscene amounts of chemicals, which he couldn't get away with in WSM competition when he would have to be 'clean' and would need to slim down for stamina reasons?

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.