THE ADONIS PROJECT: Building a better body through MCDONALDS.Destroying Anssi M.

[pumpher]

You think they are as drastic as dog breeds?   

Do not confuse phenotypic variation with genetic variation. The observable differences you see in dogs has been selected for over the last few hundred years. Humans selected dogs to display different traits which was the basis for the various "breeds". At the genetic level, there are actually only a few key genes that cause the variations between breeds. These are used as satelite genetic markers to identify various breeds for authenticity at dog shows, etc... This is why I used the phrase "minor differences." -  genetically speaking they are very similar, and amazingly only a few genes set them apart. Dogs may look wildly different, but at the base pair level, there are actually more differences in humans than dogs. (With the exception of about 1% of highly conserved sequences.) Dog breeds tend to "intermarry "and "inbreed" (kind of like mid-western Americans and Hutterites In contrast, most humans marry across different ethnicities etc... contributing to greater genetic variation. In addition, there are many gene products that have variations that you "do not see" as readily as say hair colour. For example, the human CF gene has about a thousand known variations that can lead to clinical CF.

All I am saying is that there are genetic differences between humans in terms of digestion, absorption, and metabolism of food.

[Cee21Jay]

Do not confuse phenotypic variation with genetic variation. The observable differences you see in dogs has been selected for over the last few hundred years. Humans selected dogs to display different traits which was the basis for the various "breeds". At the genetic level, there are actually only a few key genes that cause the variations between breeds. These are used as satelite genetic markers to identify various breeds for authenticity at dog shows, etc... This is why I used the phrase "minor differences." -  genetically speaking they are very similar, and amazingly only a few genes set them apart. Dogs may look wildly different, but at the base pair level, there are actually more differences in humans than dogs. (With the exception of about 1% of highly conserved sequences.) Dog breeds tend to "intermarry "and "inbreed" (kind of like mid-western Americans and Hutterites In contrast, most humans marry across different ethnicities etc... contributing to greater genetic variation. In addition, there are many gene products that have variations that you "do not see" as readily as say hair colour. For example, the human CF gene has about a thousand known variations that can lead to clinical CF.

All I am saying is that there are genetic differences between humans in terms of digestion, absorption, and metabolism of food.

I really read through the post and the other post I commented on.  It made me think.  I still tend to disagree in regards to phenotype variation (it seemed to be hodgepodged in the posts), which is what I thought we were talking about.

 "Dogs may look wildly different, but at the base pair level, there are actually more differences in humans than dogs".

I am curious if you have a reference.  This is an interesting fact.


"All I am saying is that there are genetic differences between humans in terms of digestion, absorption, and metabolism of food".
Truth, but I think most digest very similarly across the board.

 

[pumpher]

I really read through the post and the other post I commented on.  It made me think.  I still tend to disagree in regards to phenotype variation (it seemed to be hodgepodged in the posts), which is what I thought we were talking about.

 "Dogs may look wildly different, but at the base pair level, there are actually more differences in humans than dogs".

I am curious if you have a reference.  This is an interesting fact.


"All I am saying is that there are genetic differences between humans in terms of digestion, absorption, and metabolism of food".
Truth, but I think most digest very similarly across the board.

 

You will find the concept of phenotypic selection (i.e dog breeding) on genetic variation in any genetics textbook. There is a loss of genetic information and variability proportional to the amount of selection. For example, if you breed a certain type of dog to have "short legs," it and its offspring will always have short legs...the medium and long leg variants would have been wiped out...This concept is why certain breeds of dogs (and interbred human populations) are susceptible to certain genetic diseases. "Mutts" have more genetic variation. Most human populations are not selectively bred, and those that interbreed have less genetic variability.

The physiological process of digestion, absorbption and metabolism may be basically the same between people, but is enough genetic variance to make it significant if you are dieting. For example, there can be 30-50% difference between a patients' insulin secretion response to the same oral glucose load. (Type 1 diabetics are a different story) There is a large variation in degree of insulin resistance in the human population (of course there are both genetic and environmental factors). Varying degrees of lactase deficiency, variable expressitivity and secretion of amylase, peptases, lipases and other digestive enzymes vary between patients affecting the digestive part of the equation. Look up the research on the SGLT and GLUT transporter which shows genetic differences between people for carbohydrate absorption. Bottom line: everyone is different.

Total caloric intake is probably the most important, but you cannot use the same thing/formula for everyone.

[The True Adonis]

You will find the concept of phenotypic selection (i.e dog breeding) on genetic variation in any genetics textbook. There is a loss of genetic information and variability proportional to the amount of selection. For example, if you breed a certain type of dog to have "short legs," it and its offspring will always have short legs...the medium and long leg variants would have been wiped out...This concept is why certain breeds of dogs (and interbred human populations) are susceptible to certain genetic diseases. "Mutts" have more genetic variation. Most human populations are not selectively bred, and those that interbreed have less genetic variability.

The physiological process of digestion, absorbption and metabolism may be basically the same between people, but is enough genetic variance to make it significant if you are dieting. For example, there can be 30-50% difference between a patients' insulin secretion response to the same oral glucose load. (Type 1 diabetics are a different story) There is a large variation in degree of insulin resistance in the human population (of course there are both genetic and environmental factors). Varying degrees of lactase deficiency, variable expressitivity and secretion of amylase, peptases, lipases and other digestive enzymes vary between patients affecting the digestive part of the equation. Look up the research on the SGLT and GLUT transporter which shows genetic differences between people for carbohydrate absorption. Bottom line: everyone is different.

Total caloric intake is probably the most important, but you cannot use the same thing/formula for everyone.

My formula is used to derive the total caloric intake for each individual.  Its not a cookie-cutter method, everyone will end up with a different ability for total energy consumption.  What my formula does, is predict each person max total caloric intake without gaining a gram of fat.

[Hedgehog]

My formula is used to derive the total caloric intake for each individual.  Its not a cookie-cutter method, everyone will end up with a different ability for total energy consumption.  What my formula does, is predict each person max total caloric intake without gaining a gram of fat.

How can your "formula" be valid, when caloric expandure varies from day to day?

-Hedge

[The Master]

How can your "formula" be valid, when caloric expandure varies from day to day?

-Hedge

Do not question adonis. He is above all of science. His opinions = your law.

[Nordic Superman]

How can your "formula" be valid, when caloric expandure varies from day to day?

-Hedge

He has a Masters 1:1 degree from Cambridge University, England in the field of "Pseudo Science Majoralis".

You cannot fuck with this mans credentials Hedge!

[pumpher]

My formula is used to derive the total caloric intake for each individual.  Its not a cookie-cutter method, everyone will end up with a different ability for total energy consumption.  What my formula does, is predict each person max total caloric intake without gaining a gram of fat.

I realize that. It sounds very interesting and you certainly have a good physique. I'm interested in hearing more about your formula.

It's easy to lose weight (in terms of fat/muscle/water). Just don't eat.  Losing fat and building muscle in a semi-healthy fashion is more difficult.

[The True Adonis]

How can your "formula" be valid, when caloric expandure varies from day to day?

-Hedge

Hence why I start all of my subjects on a calorie constant for my formula.

[ripitupbaby]

Hence why I start all of my subjects on a calorie constant for my formula.

What the fuck IS your "formula" anyway?  Did you ever reveal it? 

You left Tweeter hanging in a major way....

[Rimbaud]

So where's the receipts, pics, & video? Oh wait, it didn't happen.

[Rimbaud]

You left Tweeter hanging in a major way....

Didn't tweeter drop the whole thing? I noticed that he ended the thread about it in the nutrition board.

[ripitupbaby]

Didn't tweeter drop the whole thing? I noticed that he ended the thread about it in the nutrition board.

That's because he waited for TA to give him the "formula" for like 2 months when he was supposed to get it after 30 days....and he said that he kept sending TA pm's and emails and never heard back from him.   

I sent TA a PM too and asked wtf was up with leaving Tweeter hanging and never heard back from him either.  Tweeter gave up.

[natural al]

Hence why I start all of my subjects on a calorie constant for my formula.

how's tweeter doing with your formula?

[Hedgehog]

Hence why I start all of my subjects on a calorie constant for my formula.

First before I answer any question....Yes I did read EVERY SINGLE STUDY and I am glad you just admitted that you did not.  Shows the great ignorance you posess in the face of Science.  You are doing yourself a huge injustice by not carefully reading facts and Scientific studies, instead, choosing myths and lies with no evidence.

With that said, I will answer.

1. RDA and DRI values set by the United States Government from independent research and from: Alliance for Aging Research
American Association of Diabetes Educators
American Council on Science and Health
American Institute for Cancer Research
American Obesity Association
Harvard Medical School
MedStar Research Institute
National Consumers League
National Women's Health Resource Center
Nutritional Sciences Program at the University of Washington
Pennington Biomedical Research Center
Shape Up America!
Society for Women's Health Research
University of California at Davis Department of Nutrition
UCLA Center for Human Nutrition
Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center

1. I set a constant caloric amount for a period of time and look for trends.  Once I establish identifiable trends, I then have an EXACT amount of info to use my equation so that I can PROVIDE an EXACT caloric amount.  The revised caloric amount I give is the amount that you can safely eat without gaining a gram of fat.  This is continually updated as well so you will always have accurate data.

2. Get the RDA,DRI.  I don`t care what you eat to do that. DO NOT OVEREAT caloric amount. Eat whatever you like to get there.  Nothing is off-limits.

3. That depends on your goals.  My goal is to mantain low bodyfat constantly and not for a specific day.  Others may differ.

4. The number of calories is solely based on each individuals data.  What you choose to do with the data is up to you.  A weekly average yields great results if there is not too much variance.  Too much variance would be not meeting the RDA, DRI for a day.  While unlikely to happen, it could, given your faceitious idea of fasting for multiple days.

5. Again, it is up to each individuals data.  Sometimes I eat a 1000 calorie meal.  If I am eating 2500, I will break the 1500 up the rest of the day or eat whatever it takes to get to my target of 2500. Now, if I find myself eating lots of those meals, a weekly average is a safe way to ensure you aren`t overeating.  If your weekly total is 21,000 calories ,or 3000 a day,  you can eat 2000, for lets say 3 days.  Now you have 15,000 calories to "spend".  You have effectively created a surplus to use whenever you`d like.

6. Every person`s number varies as it is based on their needs.  Chaseinator can eat 3253.130 calories and not gain a gram of weight.  This data is obtained over a period of time which totally eliminates error.

7. I wasn`t ready to reveal my methodology.  Garreth would be wise to follow that advice or any advice which will reduce his caloric amount as he is obese and a health risk.  I am on to something big here and it will only get bigger as I have a few projects to work on in the coming months.  I would do everything I can to help you, if you would like it. 

Abeles, how can you provide an exact caloric amount when the caloric expandure varies from day to day?

Also:

Again,

Do what I requested if you are interested.  If not, just move on.

I do not wish to provide you or anyone with it, if they are not going to comply.

I am willing to help you for free.  Its totally up to you.

I am going to give Tweeter his data this week.

What happened with you giving Tweeter his data?



-Hedge

[Tapeworm]

I thought you were moving on to bigger and better things TA.  Back to this again?  Bit of a boar.

[ripitupbaby]

Abeles, how can you provide an exact caloric amount when the caloric expandure varies from day to day?

Also:
What happened with you giving Tweeter his data?



-Hedge

Here is the link to Tweeter's final thoughts, along with an excerpt from his first post in that thread:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=142434.0

...Also, I have had a difficult time communicating with TA through pm's and never recieved the formula. Originally, I was suppose to eat 1,800 calories for 1 month in order to get the constant...that turned into 15 pounds of weight loss which turned into 2 months which turned into 20 pounds of weight loss. I do believe that TA has this formula but I really don't have the time to wait around on him, and feel that 1,800 calories is a little low to remain on for that peroid of time. I do understand that TA is very busy doing research and likely does not have much time available to constantly be reading pm's, so there are no hard feelings. To my knowledge, all of the other case studies have ended also, so I can see why it might not be on the front of his mind.

Still no response as far as I know...

[ripitupbaby]

Although I didn't get the actual formula, I still incorporate many of TA's principles into my diet and training. For example, I am only eating around 100 grams of protein per day now rather than 200; I also have quit obsessing about eating every 2 or 3 hours and have instead just focused on staying w/in a certain calorie range each day. I used to follow the diets out of Flex, which just had way too many calories for my body to handle. I now try to eat a variety of foods including fruits, vegetables, and dairy products (I used to be wary of eating fruit and especially dairy). I think one of my big problems before was that I was eating a ton of rice as I thought it was the perfect bodybuilding food; I would probably eat about 1,000 calories worth of rice some days. I am much happier now w/ my diet and even though I don't have the formula, I pretty much know about how much I can eat. TA and I are still friends and stay in contact regularly. We don't really talk about bodybuilding all that much; we mainly discuss politics, astronomy, his scientific research, and stuff like that...so its all good.

P.S. Lori, congrats on your show; you looked awesome!

Thanks Tweeter.   

As long as you learned something through the process, then it was well worth it. 

That's an awfully low amount of protein for someone your size.  However, there are a million ways to diet, cut, bulk, etc. and the same thing doesn't work for everyone.  You have to try out different ways and see what works best for you and your body and fits best into your lifestyle.  It seems like you are well on your way to doing that, so that's good.

But I still think it was pretty uncool how TA handled (or didn't) his "case studies."  As far as I know, none of them actually made it to the point of receiving his "formula," which I think we can all just assume is equivalent the Weight Watchers Points System.  Nothing new or revolutionary.   

Say HI to TA for me, would ya?   

[Hedgehog]

Although I didn't get the actual formula, I still incorporate many of TA's principles into my diet and training. For example, I am only eating around 100 grams of protein per day now rather than 200

Seems you're following the general nutritional guidelines that most athletes are recommended.

Most books on sports nutrition recommends a protein intake in the 10-15% range for athletes (a slightly higher than normal protein intake). So 100 grams at your bodyweight would be adequate.

And Abeles never recommended any kind of protein ratios. He's claimed many times you can eat whatever you want, as long as you meet the caloric total.

Seems like you got a good grip on your diet bro.

Give us an update in a few months, would be interesting to know how your progress is going.

-Hedge

[Nordic Superman]

And Abeles never recommended any kind of protein ratios. He's claimed many times you can eat whatever you want, as long as you meet the caloric total.

That's where anyone with any basic knowledge of nutrition will realise this Gay Jewish Nazi knows jack shit about nutrition.

So... 2500 calories of donuts = 2500 cals from decent diet

[Hedgehog]

That's where anyone with any basic knowledge of nutrition will realise this Gay Jewish Nazi knows jack shit about nutrition.

So... 2500 calories of donuts = 2500 cals from decent diet

He's a Jew and worships the Nazi culture (but it's Goebbels, not Goebells ).

But we don't know if he's gay. What do you think:

However, he claims he is not.

-Hedge

[swilkins1984]

I thought the "formula" was eat ~1500-1800 cals a day of anything no matter how much you weigh, no cardio, and lift 3-4 times a week

[Nordic Superman]

He's a Jew and worships the Nazi culture (but it's Goebbels, not Goebells ).

But we don't know if he's gay. What do you think:

However, he claims he is not.

-Hedge

Gay as inserting a cucumber up your ass then eating it. Unless you're Swedish, because it's a tradition to eat vegetables this way in Sweden.

[Hedgehog]

I thought the "formula" was eat ~1500-1800 cals a day of anything no matter how much you weigh, no cardio, and lift 3-4 times a week

Yeah, that could've been a niche for Abeles.

But his formula, the secret formula, was used to pinpoint the exact caloric expandure for every individual.

"Teh Formula".


Oh brother.

-Hedge

[Nordic Superman]

Yeah, that could've been a niche for Abeles.

But his formula, the secret formula, was used to pinpoint the exact caloric expandure for every individual.

"Teh Formula".


Oh brother.

-Hedge

Does this formulae take into account the micro caloric consumption the tiniest of tiny biological process require?