Author Topic: 2nd hand smoke  (Read 5531 times)

RJB

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2007, 10:50:33 AM »
Who cares.
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buffbodz

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2007, 11:28:48 AM »
Lots of people to be slapping around

http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/pubs/strsfs.html
http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm

All I could is find studies that contradict what you're saying, and allot do.  Not only that, but if you ever worked in a bar or restruant, than you'd know what you would smell like after a shift.  No going out, you stink.  Forget about meeting someone, the first smell and she's gone.  Even if it doesn't cause cancer, the rest of the things it does suck.  Now weed.........use a bong, no cloud to remain on your clothes and hair.
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2007, 11:49:33 AM »
fuck smokers, who cares if it's not true... They don't think about others, I don't give a shit if they've been kicked out of public.

Earl1972

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2007, 01:02:32 PM »
smokers are the scum of society

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Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2007, 01:32:58 PM »
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meh..my life...my body..my choice ...

 
Is this smoking or an abortion you're referring to?
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Can also go to wwwJunkScience.com if anyone is concerned about  just that, junk science. Most of those research lab's depend on government or private grants to stay in business (and it is a business). Most can and will come up with any finding they think the fund givers will agree with. And the few lab's that do not,  are usually ignored or glossed over. Even college lab's come under this negative influence. Political correctness rears it's ugly head again.
The only point I'm trying to make is that, don't believe everything you hear.  The government is full of shit on many things.
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f**k smokers, who cares if it's not true... They don't think about others, I don't give a shit if they've been kicked out of public.
You're missing the point.  They try to pass laws with no actual proof, other than smoking offends people.  Imagine if they didn't allow juicers in gyms, you'd probably be irrate on that one.  If juicers were in the majority across the country, that would be legal as well.  It's about votes and not really your "health".
Back to synthol and steroids now....
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GroinkTropin

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2007, 05:24:44 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that tabacco plants suck up radiation from the ground and disperse it throughout the leaves, which is the part that is smoked. This would explain the elevated cancer risk, and that would make second hand smoke basically a radioactive cloud coming at you. Not pretty to say the least.

Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2007, 08:58:50 PM »
Does anyone believe that 2nd hand smoke causes cancer?  If so, let me know and I'll smack you for being a dope.

say that to the hundreds of kids under the age of 12 that turned up with lung cancer because both their parents smoked..

Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2007, 10:41:00 PM »
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I remember reading somewhere that tabacco plants suck up radiation from the ground and disperse it throughout the leaves, which is the part that is smoked. This would explain the elevated cancer risk, and that would make second hand smoke basically a radioactive cloud coming at you. Not pretty to say the least.
Yeah, I remember that article.  It came right after that one about Frosty the Snowman.
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say that to the hundreds of kids under the age of 12 that turned up with lung cancer because both their parents smoked..
Where is the direct proof that 2nd hand smoke actually caused that?  Answer, there is none.  Please tell me you're not dumb enough to believe a tale like that.  Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.  Get with it bro.
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Earl1972

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2007, 10:42:34 PM »
where is your proof that second hand smoke doesn't cause lung cancer

do you smoke croatch?

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realkarateblackbelt

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2007, 10:52:01 PM »
The burden of proof is on the people making the outrageous claim.

Second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer. It IS political bs.

Look doctor! Another man dead! Second hand smoke killed him!!!
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Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2007, 11:11:59 PM »
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where is your proof that second hand smoke doesn't cause lung cancer

do you smoke croatch?

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No, I don't smoke.
There are many studies on each.  A study doesn't mean much if you consider how easy it is to manipulate data.  For every 2nd hand smoke study saying it's harmful, I could find one that counters it.  If a person were in a small room with 3 smokers for a period of years, I would say they could be harmed.  To say that someone in a restaurant is much more likely to get cancer if they're smokers in there, is just garbage though.  Even in a bar, etc.  If a waitress dies of lung cancer, they may attribute that to 2nd hand smoke, but it's possible she simply was predisposed to cancer.  Point being, they truly don't know shit.  The funniest is talking about kids who have died from this under 12...quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  Simple common sense should tell you how full of crap some of these studies are.  If there were truth behind many of these studies, our race should have been getting lung cancer left and right 20 years ago from all the restaurants we were in with smokers and bars.  I'm glad my government cares so much about my health...oh brother.  
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240_Iz_Nutz

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2007, 11:57:45 PM »
I have not always agreed with you about things Croatch, but this time I do.  It is a bunch of crap and they gather support for these kind of things from people who don't even go to bars, sit near smoking sections, etc. It does not even matter to them other than to sit on a moral high-ground. Those same people have no problem with their bodyfat being too high, not being active, etc.  Even if they do not like smoke when they get near it, not gonna kill them, or even do any real harm. Is it irritating to see people take small children to sit in smoking sections and things like that?  Yeah, it is..but..adults have choices to make on their own...As a non-smoker you can just stay away from a business that allows smoking if you need to.  If enough people do that, the establishment might change the policy without any governement shit.  There are people out there, older ones who always vote BTW, that control these things without even being affected by them. A lot of bars seem to be doing fine by allowing smoking.  Even non-smokers in a bar situation know what they are getting into and 99% of the time are in a group where more than one person smokes. As a business owner you put your ass on the line and certain business types need to allow smoking.  Agree or not, it's true...The government bullshit does apply to the BB game also...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2007, 12:22:07 AM »
You're missing the point.  They try to pass laws with no actual proof, other than smoking offends people.  Imagine if they didn't allow juicers in gyms, you'd probably be irrate on that one.  If juicers were in the majority across the country, that would be legal as well.  It's about votes and not really your "health".
Back to synthol and steroids now....
That's funny because you strike me as the type that would ban juicers from the gym.  You've spent enough time bitching about them.  And there's a big difference, AAS doesn't rub off on people around the user.  If I'm around a smoker, I end up smelling like shit too.  Well I don't want to smell like nasty ass cig smoke so fuck them. I like eat in a restaurant without smelling like cigerette smoke for the rest of the day.  Smoking is nasty.

Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2007, 12:52:39 AM »
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That's funny because you strike me as the type that would ban juicers from the gym.  You've spent enough time bitching about them.  And there's a big difference, AAS doesn't rub off on people around the user.  If I'm around a smoker, I end up smelling like shit too.  Well I don't want to smell like nasty ass cig smoke so f**k them. I like eat in a restaurant without smelling like cigerette smoke for the rest of the day.  Smoking is nasty.
You can't go around banning things, simply cause you don't like them.  I don't like it when people stink like alcohol and act like douchebags.  Maybe they should just ban public drinking?
Also, get rid of public gayness.  I'm sure many would be for that one.  2 guys kissing in public is cool, but just don't smoke.  This country is shot.
Yes, they should ban anyone who uses steroids in all gyms.  Why, cause I'd like to really see what people are made of, drugs aside.  How fun would it be to see how weak and mediocre people would be without their miracle pills/shots/implants.  I would call the gym "Naturals".  No breast implants either.  I want to know it's a true big titty, if it catches my eye.  I think I'm going to find a study on how people on steroids offend people who train natural, then get someone to pass a law on it.  Good idea.

Just cause you don't agree with something or like it, doesn't mean a law should be passed on it.  Think back to days of segregation.  Whites didn't like blacks and they couldn't even go to the same restaurants, etc.  Now how ridiculous was that?  At the time it seems perfectly normal though.  If someone doesn't like smelling like smoke, don't sit in the smoking section.  It's not that hard.  And yes, smoking smells like complete shit..haha
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2007, 01:08:52 AM »
You can't go around banning things, simply cause you don't like them.  I don't like it when people stink like alcohol and act like douchebags.  Maybe they should just ban public drinking?
Also, get rid of public gayness.  I'm sure many would be for that one.  2 guys kissing in public is cool, but just don't smoke.  This country is shot.
Yes, they should ban anyone who uses steroids in all gyms.  Why, cause I'd like to really see what people are made of, drugs aside.  How fun would it be to see how weak and mediocre people would be without their miracle pills/shots/implants.  I would call the gym "Naturals".  No breast implants either.  I want to know it's a true big titty, if it catches my eye.  I think I'm going to find a study on how people on steroids offend people who train natural, then get someone to pass a law on it.  Good idea.

Just cause you don't agree with something or like it, doesn't mean a law should be passed on it.  Think back to days of segregation.  Whites didn't like blacks and they couldn't even go to the same restaurants, etc.  Now how ridiculous was that?  At the time it seems perfectly normal though.  If someone doesn't like smelling like smoke, don't sit in the smoking section.  It's not that hard.  And yes, smoking smells like complete shit..haha
Well, I agree, I wish steriods were not but that's not reality of it and I'm not about to become sour over what others do.  You know who you are, what you are, fuck everybody else.  Who you are does not depend on who others are unless you make it that way. 

I've been around long enought to know the smoking section doesn't cut it... the whole place smells like smoke unless the establishment really had it planned good and not many of them did.  aside from restaurants, there were not smoking sections... It's not like you can go bowling or some other thing back in the day and avoid the fog bank of smoke... It really sucked when smoking was popular with everyone and people could smoke nearly everywhere.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2007, 01:17:09 AM »
Here's the way I feel about it... I'm for a persons right everytime unless that right infringes on another's right in public.  The smoker has a right to smoke and the non-smoker has a right to not breath smoke.  Does the non smoker make way for the smoker and avoid all public areas?  Or does the smoker yield his habit for the non smoker.  He still gets to smoke away from public and the non-smoker gets to breath fresh air.  both get keep their rights in this matter... I say it works better with the smoker yielding to the non-smoker with his right to smoke rather than him expecting the non-smoker to yield their right to breath clean air.

Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2007, 06:07:05 PM »
Yeah, I remember that article.  It came right after that one about Frosty the Snowman.Where is the direct proof that 2nd hand smoke actually caused that?  Answer, there is none.  Please tell me you're not dumb enough to believe a tale like that.  Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.  Get with it bro.

Why don't you just go ahead and say that smoking itself doesn't cause cancer...Get a clue...Some people are more vunerable to cancer...To say it doesn't cause cancer is just stupid...You have it all backwards...The governments of the world tried hiding facts about this for decades...It doesn't take a genius to know that smoke (regardless of what is in it)is an irratent...Get enough of any irratent and it can be problematic for anyone...Their have been babies that develope broncidious because of the mother smoking 24/7...Asthma is another problem that for sure comes for smoking and second hand smoke...I reason you see so many studies going the other way is for one reason and one reason only...To protect employers esp. in the restuarant business from being sued by their employes...Do you really believe that states like california(very liberal state and New York) wouldn't still be fighing smoking in public if they had a leg to stand on?

Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2007, 06:10:25 PM »
You can't go around banning things, simply cause you don't like them.  I don't like it when people stink like alcohol and act like douchebags.  Maybe they should just ban public drinking?
Also, get rid of public gayness.  I'm sure many would be for that one.  2 guys kissing in public is cool, but just don't smoke.  This country is shot.
Yes, they should ban anyone who uses steroids in all gyms.  Why, cause I'd like to really see what people are made of, drugs aside.  How fun would it be to see how weak and mediocre people would be without their miracle pills/shots/implants.  I would call the gym "Naturals".  No breast implants either.  I want to know it's a true big titty, if it catches my eye.  I think I'm going to find a study on how people on steroids offend people who train natural, then get someone to pass a law on it.  Good idea.

Just cause you don't agree with something or like it, doesn't mean a law should be passed on it.  Think back to days of segregation.  Whites didn't like blacks and they couldn't even go to the same restaurants, etc.  Now how ridiculous was that?  At the time it seems perfectly normal though.  If someone doesn't like smelling like smoke, don't sit in the smoking section.  It's not that hard.  And yes, smoking smells like complete shit..haha

Re-read what you just wrote...After doing so, if you don't come away thinking this was written by a total retard.  Then you must be retarded...WTF :-\


http://www.smoke-free.ca/Second-Hand-Smoke/health_kids.htm

i guess Canada(how much more liberal can you get)is messing with their statistics to show hundreds of thousands of reported illnesses to kids under 18 :-\ :-\

Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2007, 06:29:54 PM »
You can't go around banning things, simply cause you don't like them.  I don't like it when people stink like alcohol and act like douchebags.  Maybe they should just ban public drinking?
Also, get rid of public gayness.  I'm sure many would be for that one.  2 guys kissing in public is cool, but just don't smoke.  This country is shot.
Yes, they should ban anyone who uses steroids in all gyms.  Why, cause I'd like to really see what people are made of, drugs aside.  How fun would it be to see how weak and mediocre people would be without their miracle pills/shots/implants.  I would call the gym "Naturals".  No breast implants either.  I want to know it's a true big titty, if it catches my eye.  I think I'm going to find a study on how people on steroids offend people who train natural, then get someone to pass a law on it.  Good idea.

Just cause you don't agree with something or like it, doesn't mean a law should be passed on it.  Think back to days of segregation.  Whites didn't like blacks and they couldn't even go to the same restaurants, etc.  Now how ridiculous was that?  At the time it seems perfectly normal though.  If someone doesn't like smelling like smoke, don't sit in the smoking section.  It's not that hard.  And yes, smoking smells like complete shit..haha

and sucking on the back of a tail pipe won't kill ya either right

realkarateblackbelt

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2007, 07:11:07 PM »
Yes, cus sucking a tail pipe is like walking by someone smoking.  ::)

Oh brother.

Croatch is right, if anything we need less laws. It's turning into a fascist state controlled by old fuckers.
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Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2007, 07:32:34 PM »
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Re-read what you just wrote...After doing so, if you don't come away thinking this was written by a total retard.  Then you must be retarded...WTF


http://www.smoke-free.ca/Second-Hand-Smoke/health_kids.htm

i guess Canada(how much more liberal can you get)is messing with their statistics to show hundreds of thousands of reported illnesses to kids under 18 
If you believe that bunch of horseshit, I pray for you.  What a bland uncontrolled study.  You need to pick up on things like:
A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.*** 
Could be reduce...not are reduced.
A U.S. analysis** of over 100 reports on pædiatric diseases concluded that children’s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to:
Repsonsible for up to, not responsible for.  Hell, it could be responsible for all of them, or maybe none.
ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including:
Causally linked, meaning not directly, but a possible link.
It's odd, my dad smoked 2 packs a day and I have had none of the mentioned things in this study.  I must have superior genetics or, maybe it's just a bunch of bullshit many people are dumb enough to buy.  Trust me, there are no actual studies to prove that 2nd hand smoke directly has caused even one death.  Why, because there are no controlled studies on this matter.  It's all speculation.  You could say that all these illnesses are cause by the exhausts from cars in the city.  I could make a study showing how people who live in NYC are 3x as likely to get respiratory illness.  It's a joke bro, wake the f**k up.
Meltdown..haha ;)
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Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2007, 08:32:06 PM »
If you believe that bunch of horseshit, I pray for you.  What a bland uncontrolled study.  You need to pick up on things like:
A British study found that SIDS deaths could be reduced by two-thirds if parents did not smoke.*** 
Could be reduce...not are reduced.
A U.S. analysis** of over 100 reports on pædiatric diseases concluded that children’s exposure to tobacco smoke is responsible for up to:
Repsonsible for up to, not responsible for.  Hell, it could be responsible for all of them, or maybe none.
ETS is causally linked with a number of adverse health effects in children (under 18), including:
Causally linked, meaning not directly, but a possible link.
It's odd, my dad smoked 2 packs a day and I have had none of the mentioned things in this study.  I must have superior genetics or, maybe it's just a bunch of bullshit many people are dumb enough to buy.  Trust me, there are no actual studies to prove that 2nd hand smoke directly has caused even one death.  Why, because there are no controlled studies on this matter.  It's all speculation.  You could say that all these illnesses are cause by the exhausts from cars in the city.  I could make a study showing how people who live in NYC are 3x as likely to get respiratory illness.  It's a joke bro, wake the f**k up.
Meltdown..haha ;)

Their is no real studies because they are all buried...But i will make this very simple. Do you believe that Benzene and Methylene Chloride are carcinogens and Mutagens(cancer causing and gene mutating agents?) They are known to be. No real disputing that one i hope Croatch. But its your choice as whether you "believe" them to be..Its One of the reasons why i give the sucking on the end of a tail pipe analogy. If you were to purchase them to be used in a lab(they do have scientific value as solvents),they are clearly marked as cancer causing agents. They have to be used in hoods or isolaters(glove boxes)in the labs(why do you think that is?)

If you accept that they are , then the answer is simple. Smoke contains these compounds. Chemically and physically, it contains them. They are by-products of the combustion process. They form at a particular temperature during the burning. They are classified under the term "hex" because of the hexgonal Benzene Ring in the molecule. If you look at a gas chromotograph of various peaks in cigarette smoke(remember the peaks in the movie medicine man?)they are usually far toward the right of the graph. Its the hex compounds that are very nasty. These tie into the concept of "free radicals" (tell me you believe in free radicals?) which everyone has heard about. If you inhale smoke, then your putting Benzene, methylene Cloride and other "hex" ring compounds into your lungs,sinuses, throat ect(Just imagine a 12 year olds lung, sinuses, and throat which are still evolving)where they will cause genes with cells to mutate and cause cancer cells to grow..

It doesn't really matter if you believe anything about the smoke. Its whether you are willing to acknowledge that these Benzene ring compounds are as nasty as they are.

Then its a simple matter. And heres the key point. if the natural defenses in a body can continue to fight these mutations and cancer cells, you wont get cancer.  This happens all the time. Maybe even in your case. You just don't know yet..Your dad might have already done the damage..Bodies have defenses againts mutations, against cancer cells, against virses, against bacteria, ect. BUT, your natural defense mechanisms in your body can't keep up with destroying these cells before they can start replicating themselves. Then you are fcked. Thats why some get cancer and some don't. Maybe someone can smoke for 20 years and not get cancer...but that doesn't mean they are not giving it to their 12 year old child whose body is still going thru the growing stage...Forget about what i said about the smoke and realize that it has everything to do with the "hex ring"compounds in the smoke. And whether you are willing to acknowledge the chemistry of these compounds. In how these compounds cause genes to mutate and cause cancer cells to grow out of control. And whether your body has the defenses to fight off the cancer cells before they grow out of control. But every person is different. But i guess in your eyes if YOU don't get cancer right now then no one will get cancer ever from these compounds..  Interesting way to live...If i was a smoker and i thought for one second that it was hurting my children in my house or friends driving in my car ect. i certainly wouldn't want that on me...No way...Not when i could walk outside and not hurt a soul...But you keep believeing what you believe...And remember the government was not the ones to throw negitive propaganda at this...It was people like you and me that went out and did the research...

I'm for letting everyone do whatever the fck they want including uses drugs if they like..As long as they are not directly influencing my or anyone elses health...

realkarateblackbelt

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2007, 08:34:46 PM »
Niggga...

There are carcinogens everywhere you walk.

Walk around New Yawk or LA and breath the carcinogens.

You ain't gonna get lung cancer from walking pass some person in the street smoking, or sitting by somebody smoking in the restaurant.
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Croatch

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2007, 09:10:15 PM »
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You ain't gonna get lung cancer from walking pass some person in the street smoking, or sitting by somebody smoking in the restaurant.
Pretty much my point.  It's not a health issue, it's a political issue, nothing more.  One day, someone got tired of smelling smoke, so to justify banning it from places, they found a few horseshit studies to support the ban.
Whether you smoke or hate it, it goes against the freedom of being a US citizen.  If you can't have a smoking section in a restaurant, that is garbage.  The problems with most smokers is they will tolerate getting the shank and continue going to places that don't allow smoking.  People go to bars, then go outside to smoke like a 2nd class citizen. 
I can't wait for the day they try to ban it from casinos...ahah.  That would never happen because there is too much money to be lost.  This is why the anti 2nd hand smoke pussies didn't try to get this passed in Nevada.  If it was really about peoples safety, why not ban it in casinos now?  It's banned in supermarkets, huge shopping centers.
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Wombat

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Re: 2nd hand smoke
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2007, 09:17:31 PM »
Niggga...

There are carcinogens everywhere you walk.

Walk around New Yawk or LA and breath the carcinogens.

You ain't gonna get lung cancer from walking pass some person in the street smoking, or sitting by somebody smoking in the restaurant.


your right...But how about someone working all day and night at a bar or in that same restaurant you mentioned...So you believe a women living in a one bedroom apartment smoking 4 packs a day with 3 kids living in the same apartment are not at any real risk?...And if they are then these people working in restaurants and bars are also at risk...