Author Topic: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours  (Read 5602 times)

Dos Equis

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Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« on: January 13, 2007, 09:58:32 AM »
 :)

Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
POSTED: 11:22 a.m. EST, January 13, 2007

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush on Saturday challenged lawmakers skeptical of his new Iraq plan to propose their own strategy for stopping the violence in Baghdad.

"To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible," Bush said.

In a pitch to lawmakers and the American people, Bush said the United States will keep the onus on the Iraqi government to take charge of security and reach a political reconciliation. Democrats and many Republicans oppose the Bush plan to send 21,500 more U.S. troops into Iraq.

"We have a new strategy with a new mission: Helping secure the population, especially in Baghdad," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "Our plan puts Iraqis in the lead."

The president asked for patience from lawmakers who grilled Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, when they testified before Congress in defense of the president's new plan.

Democratic leaders in the House and Senate intend to hold votes within a few weeks on Bush's revised Iraq policy. The nonbinding resolutions would be one way to show their opposition to any troop buildup and force Republicans to make a choice about whether they support the president's plan.

Rep. Tim Walz, D-Minnesota, said that he, along with most Democrats and an increasing number of Republicans, believe sending more troops compounds a bad situation. Walz, a veteran of the war in Afghanistan, said diplomatic and political solutions are needed, not more troops.

"Before moving forward with this escalation, we owe it to these troops, to their families, and to all Americans to ask the tough questions and demand honest answers about this policy," Walz said in the Democrats' Saturday radio address.

"Is there a clear strategy that the commanders on the ground believe will succeed?" Walz said. "What are the benchmarks for success, and how long does the president believe it will take to achieve them? Is this a policy that will contribute to the America's security in the larger war on terror, or distract from it?"

Bush: Those who oppose plan must 'offer alternative'
"Members of Congress have a right to express their views, and express them forcefully," Bush said. "But those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success. "

In his radio broadcast, Bush replayed the highlights of his Wednesday night address to the nation.

He said the 21,500 troops being sent to Baghdad and Anbar province, a base for al Qaeda, have a changed mission.

"This time there will be adequate Iraqi and U.S. forces to hold the areas that have been cleared," Bush said.

Bush said Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has pledged that political sectarian interference with security operations will not be tolerated. "This time, Iraqi and American forces will have a green light to enter neighborhoods that are home to those fueling sectarian violence," he said.

The president also said the United States will hold the Iraqi government to its pledge to take responsibility for security in all of Iraq's provinces by November, pass legislation to share oil revenues among all Iraqis and spend $10 billion of its own money on reconstruction that will create new jobs.

"The Iraqi government knows that it must meet them, or lose the support of the Iraqi and the American people," Bush said.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/13/Bush.Dems.radio.ap/index.html

mightymouse72

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 10:09:22 AM »
the subject line says it all. 
the only arguement i've heard is, we shouldn't be there anyway. 
no plan, just criticism.

why can't they get over it, we're there, we're not leaving, so let's work together.
good post, beach
W

mightymouse72

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 10:10:48 AM »
oh yeah, leaving is not a plan. 

i'm sure it will be stated
W

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 10:27:57 AM »
LOL!!!

"Boss, I spent this year's human resources budget on coke this weekend.  If anyone else has a better idea how the money should have been spent, contact me in january 2008 and we'll talk about it"

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 10:40:09 AM »
The dems have been out of power for 12 years, now their back in, you'd think with all the bitching and critisizing and name calling they could have came up with something in at least the last 5 years......now you have all these doctored photos and bullshit conspiracy sites blaming the Government for 9/11.......unfuckingbelievable!

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2007, 10:41:44 AM »
the subject line says it all. 
the only arguement i've heard is, we shouldn't be there anyway. 
no plan, just criticism.

why can't they get over it, we're there, we're not leaving, so let's work together.
good post, beach

Thanks.  Ozmo and I were discussing this yesterday.  Bush must have been reading.   :)  Given that Congress has the power to declare war, they passed resolutions supporting this war, and many of the liberals in Congress were elected in November by criticizing the war, they need to come forward with a plan.  They can only throw darts for so long.  I think they're afraid.  What they're trying to do is deflect attention away from their lack of substance by focusing on things like the minimum wage (talk about a waste of time).  The war should be at the top of their agenda.    

240 is Back

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2007, 11:21:49 AM »
now you have all these doctored photos and bullshit conspiracy sites blaming the Government for 9/11.......unfuckingbelievable!

It is unbelievable.  But history has shown that "self attacks" have worked very well for OTHER countries' governments in the past to achieve greater things for the nation.  And Congress agreed in the late 70s that JFK "probably" was killed as a result of a larger group (making it a conspiracy), documents admit Gulf of TOnken was faked.  So I guess that would mean OTHER nations do it, and OUR govt did it in 1963 and 1964, but they wouldn't do it today.  Right?

Also, you shouldn't generalize "the Govt" for 9/11.  19 arabs did hijack planes.  They were assisted in succeeding by a small group of people on the ground in key positions.  Just like I wouldn't blame "the govt" when one congressman has 90,000 in bribe in his freezer, i don't blame "the govt" because 50 or less people in key positions acted to ensure those planes hit their targets.

Finally - I saw you attack the evidence as false.  Can you cite 5 piece of 9/11 evidence that are false?   

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2007, 11:50:18 AM »
Thanks.  Ozmo and I were discussing this yesterday.  Bush must have been reading.   :)  Given that Congress has the power to declare war, they passed resolutions supporting this war, and many of the liberals in Congress were elected in November by criticizing the war, they need to come forward with a plan.  They can only throw darts for so long.  I think they're afraid.  What they're trying to do is deflect attention away from their lack of substance by focusing on things like the minimum wage (talk about a waste of time).  The war should be at the top of their agenda.     

Well, again,  i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.   

I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, :::::::: 

BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.

Besides there is aplan out there:  ISG.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2007, 11:59:16 AM »
Well, again,  i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.   

I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, :::::::: 

BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.

Besides there is aplan out there:  ISG.

I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election.  And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it.  They haven't. 

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2007, 12:03:57 PM »
I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election.  And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it.  They haven't. 

they will.  When the political climate dictates it they will have a plan. 

Plus i think the American public voiced it's distaste for the neo-con leadership not it's support of dems neccesarily. 

Whne you have Hillary Clinton, voting for a bill allowing kids to get abortions without parent notification, to me it sounds like the dems still have a little way to go to get back down to earth.

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2007, 12:04:11 PM »
I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election.  And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it.  They haven't. 

The Dems have been in power 4 days now.   They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.

1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?

If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize.  but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago.  Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?

Be reasonable.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2007, 12:04:22 PM »
Eveyrone has been telling that dumnbass for a troop pullout and he hasn't been listening. Instead he's send more troops and accusing everyone of not having a plan.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2007, 12:06:17 PM »
they will.  When the political climate dictates it they will have a plan. 

Plus i think the American public voiced it's distaste for the neo-con leadership not it's support of dems neccesarily. 

Whne you have Hillary Clinton, voting for a bill allowing kids to get abortions without parent notification, to me it sounds like the dems still have a little way to go to get back down to earth.

Good points.

240 is Back

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2007, 12:07:04 PM »
Eveyrone has been telling that dumnbass for a troop pullout and he hasn't been listening. Instead he's send more troops and accusing everyone of not having a plan.

ALL GROUPS HERE - except a small neocon faction and the defense contractors - CALL FOR EITHER A JUMP TO 250K+ TROOPS, OR A REDUCTION TO ZERO.  NONE CALL FOR 'MAINTENANCE' LEVEL OF FORCES

Bush doesn't represent the wishes of the American people, his own party majority, or the people of iraq.  he represents the wishes of PNAC and defense contractors.

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2007, 12:09:34 PM »
The Dems have been in power 4 days now.   They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.

1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?

If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize.  but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago.  Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?

Be reasonable.

This makes a great deal of sense.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2007, 12:10:59 PM »
The Dems have been in power 4 days now.   They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.

1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?

If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize.  but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago.  Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?

Be reasonable.

That makes no sense.  They proposed a political agenda before they took control.  They haven't had 4 days.  The war has been ongoing for years.  They ran on the war for months leading up to the election.  Before they took over both houses they had an agenda, that conspicuously did NOT include the war.  Obviously, the war was the most important issue in the election and is the most important issue today.  Yet, they have proposed nothing.  But they have proposed raising my taxes and attacked business.  No surprise.  

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2007, 12:12:34 PM »
Well, again,  i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.   

I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, :::::::: 

BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.

Besides there is aplan out there:  ISG.

What question is that? I post between clients, then when I train a client for an hour, I come back and there's twenty more posts I don't have time too look for my questions!

240 is Back

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2007, 12:15:09 PM »
That makes no sense.  

This makes a great deal of sense.

Wide difference here.

beach bum, i take it you don't understand how bills are passed.  "Having an agenda" means you have a game plan and an estimation of popular beliefs.  Since many dems weren't even IN wash DC until this week when they got started, obviously they wouldn't have everything passed immediately.

The "agenda" COULD NOT include the war, because they didn't know what Bush planned to do (and he wouldn't tell anyone).  He could have reduced 75k forces, raised it by 21k, or raised it by 100k.  Would it have been rationale for them to build a plan before knowing the situation they would be facing there?  No.

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2007, 12:15:47 PM »
That makes no sense.  They proposed a political agenda before they took control.  They haven't had 4 days.  The war has been ongoing for years.  They ran on the war for months leading up to the election.  Before they took over both houses they had an agenda, that conspicuously did NOT include the war.  Obviously, the war was the most important issue in the election and is the most important issue today.  Yet, they have proposed nothing.  But they have proposed raising my taxes and attacked business.  No surprise.   

I think it does. 

Remember they are the Senate and Congress.  Not the Commander and Chief.  They don;t decide issues like this.  they vote to declare only.  But they don't dictate tactical actions in war. The President and his generals do.  For them to put a plan out now might not be very kosher from a political stand point and for the benefit of the moral of the troops over there.....even if it seems like a good plan. 

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2007, 12:17:47 PM »
What question is that? I post between clients, then when I train a client for an hour, I come back and there's twenty more posts I don't have time too look for my questions!

Dude,  chill   ;D


Quote
Quote from: Mr. Intenseone on January 12, 2007, 11:34:48 AM
You know as well as I do that Dems are notoriously and historically weak on defence and have virtually done nothing,

Still more crickets...............

Anyone here have answers to this?

Can someone give me real facts to show me what he is talking about?

Camel Jockey

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2007, 12:18:45 PM »
ALL GROUPS HERE - except a small neocon faction and the defense contractors - CALL FOR EITHER A JUMP TO 250K+ TROOPS, OR A REDUCTION TO ZERO.  NONE CALL FOR 'MAINTENANCE' LEVEL OF FORCES

Bush doesn't represent the wishes of the American people, his own party majority, or the people of iraq.  he represents the wishes of PNAC and defense contractors.

Exactly, that cokehead is pretty much doing whatever the hell he wants without thinking in the best internest of both the American and Iraqi people.

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2007, 12:20:32 PM »
Wide difference here.

beach bum, i take it you don't understand how bills are passed.  


LOL!  ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2007, 12:22:52 PM »
I think it does. 

Remember they are the Senate and Congress.  Not the Commander and Chief.  They don;t decide issues like this.  they vote to declare only.  But they don't dictate tactical actions in war. The President and his generals do.  For them to put a plan out now might not be very kosher from a political stand point and for the benefit of the moral of the troops over there.....even if it seems like a good plan. 

They also pass resolutions, like they did after the war started, which supported the war.  They also fund the war.  They can meet with the Joint Chiefs any time they want.  They can hold committee hearings to share ideas.  The way you make it sound they should never put out their own plan.   :-\ 

OzmO

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2007, 12:26:43 PM »
They also pass resolutions, like they did after the war started, which supported the war.  They also fund the war.  They can meet with the Joint Chiefs any time they want.  They can hold committee hearings to share ideas.  The way you make it sound they should never put out their own plan.   :-\ 

I'm not saying they shouldn't.  I was thinking as i was typing that maybe it's not really a good idea to put out a detailed plan right now.  Maybe becuase of the moral of the troops and maybe becuase of the fact there are no good answers.

What we are looking for, or at least what you seem to be getting at, is a strategic and tactical plan in Iraq.  That's really something for the president and the generals. 

And 240 does have a point. IMO, It's been 4 days.

Mr. Intenseone

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Re: Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2007, 12:28:08 PM »
Dude,  chill   ;D




Quickly the first thing that comes to mind are the attacks on at the WTC in 1993,USS Cole, US embassies and then letting BinLaden go a few times all during the Clinton admisistration!