Offering Lines in Church

[Parker]

Many of you have proably been to church where you make a "free will offering". Well in some big churches they have lines for the various denominations that you are going to give. For instance, the 5 dollar line, the 10 dollar line, the 50, 100, 1,000, 5, 000, etc., etc.

To me this seems like people who are trying to buy there way into heaven, as if giving $1,000 each Sabbath day , means that they are closer to GOD, or closer to getting in good with the Lord.

A Man who gives 5K because he is a high roller, is no more holy than the 85 year old woman who gives $5 because that is all she can afford from her Social Security check, and she has been going faithly to church and bible study since she was a child. 

[Count Grishnackh]

Parker, times have changed. Why do you look at the people in churches with blinders on?

I don't expect to see any higher percentage of true christians in a church on sunday than I would in a walmart on thursday evening.

[Parker]

Parker, times have changed. Why do you look at the people in churches with blinders on?

I don't expect to see any higher percentage of true christians in a church on sunday than I would in a walmart on thursday evening.

It's not that I look at them with blinders on, I just choose not to judge them in church, but when someone asks "How much did you give", or gives the womanizing, no child support paying, dude a pat on the back for giving $1,000 to church, but not to his kids, I kinda shake my head.

You notice this more in the mega-churches that have become the de riguer place to go nowadays.

[24KT]

To me this seems like people who are trying to buy there way into heaven, as if giving $1,000 each Sabbath day , means that they are closer to GOD, or closer to getting in good with the Lord.

I don't see it so much as trying to buy your way into heaven, as much as i see it as trying to buy your status in the eyes of men. Why separate the lines? I can understand having a number of lines in order to allow the process to flow much faster and much smoother, ...but to have a $5, $10, $50, $500, or even $1,000 line? That's for show. I wouldn't doubt that the particular 'church' is preying {no pun intended} on the congregations desires to curry favour in the eyes of the rest of the congregation, and knows EXACTLY what they're doing. It would be interesting to see how many people in $1,000 line actually have $5 bills. Would the person taking the money through them out of line and make them go to the back of the $5 line, ...or would they simply accept the donation?

Parker, could you try it tomorrow, see what happens, and report back? 

I agree with Grishnackh's statement about Church on Sunday vs. Walmart on Thursday.

[Dos Equis]

I don't agree with the line thing, but people should give according their means.

And the Christian percentage comments are malarkey.  I am in Church and Wal-Mart quite a bit, and there is a distinct difference in the types of people I encounter in each.  The anti-Christian attitude at church is the exception. 

People who have abandoned their faith, or never found it, seem disproportionately hostile to religion. 

[Parker]

People who have abandoned their faith, or never found it, seem disproportionately hostile to religion. 

i find the people who truly are sincere are those who have gone thru some ish. For instance, while in college I had a summer job, and there was this dude who had cheated on his wife. The mess that he went thru, showed him that, the way he was going was not right. He became faithful, and he showed a certain "realness", that many Christians who shout and scream, don't have. Why, because they have never really been tested.

And I truly beleive that you cannpt find God within a house. God is everywhere, all around you, and especially within you. I have a theory, have you ever seen pics of when a person takes their last breath, what happeneds is the supposedly the spirit is released. It looks like a breath (smoke). Well, didn't God braeth life into Adam? Just something i thought about.   

[K-1]

i find the people who truly are sincere are those who have gone thru some ish. For instance, while in college I had a summer job, and there was this dude who had cheated on his wife. The mess that he went thru, showed him that, the way he was going was not right. He became faithful, and he showed a certain "realness", that many Christians who shout and scream, don't have. Why, because they have never really been tested.
   

This is so true. I'll speak on my own self here. I was just as you speak.....until I was tested.  I'm currently going through one of those test where you just hit rock bottom and thinks it's all over. After beating myself up, asking why, this and that, world is over,what did I do to deserve this, this is too much to deal with, you don't understand what I'm going through...etc.........Al l I did was "went back home".

I went back to my foundation on how I was brought up which was in church as a child in a religious family, and turned it over to GOD to handle this for me, accept his mercy and take things day by day to humble myself and reach my full potential as a human being for me in all aspects of life.

I was the kid who had the backing, but I didn't believe like everyone else I guess. Guess you could say I was lost and needed a reality check like this to make me decide was I going to continue to ignore, run and take the easy way out or do the opposite, show mercy, forgive and change...take the high road which is a lot harder. I chose to take the high road.

Funny thing is mentally I'm very intellectual. Thought I could figure out my troubles. Very cerebral type. Not this time. I had NO answers. For the first time in my life, I felt helpless. Of course I talked to myself and knew this is happening for a reason, and that reason was for me to just go back home. Go back to my roots man.

Man since I did that, the load off of my back was surreal. It's almost like I feel like a completely different human being when I just let go. All I did was turn this battle raging in my mind, the current situation, and all my troubles over to him. I just have to do my part now. You see my entire life I'd been harboring so much pain and I didn't know how to let go. I never really ever had a piece of mind (looking back at my life) until I just let go man.

It's a great feeling to know this battle is not mine to fight anymore. I just have to do my part and continue to walk the walk now in every aspect of my life and praise. I'm at piece now and everybody can see it and hear it in my voice as I go through my troubles. Everyone is amazed at the strength and courage in the way I'm handling things. I myself even sometimes can't believe the amount of character and courage I truly had inside of me.

[Tre]

Many of you have proably been to church where you make a "free will offering". Well in some big churches they have lines for the various denominations that you are going to give. For instance, the 5 dollar line, the 10 dollar line, the 50, 100, 1,000, 5, 000, etc., etc.

You've gotta be fuckin' shittin' me.

[Tre]

You notice this more in the mega-churches that have become the de riguer place to go nowadays.

Those places merely prove what I've been saying all along - that religion is a good business to get into if you'd like to make a lot of money. 

[beatmaster]

what about all those preachers (should i say con artists) on tv, you think they make money?, millionaire!!!

big hoaxe, thats all it is realy

[Butterbean]

Many of you have proably been to church where you make a "free will offering". Well in some big churches they have lines for the various denominations that you are going to give. For instance, the 5 dollar line, the 10 dollar line, the 50, 100, 1,000, 5, 000, etc., etc.

That is ridiculous. 


I visited a church once that had everyone go up to the front to give their offering.  I thought that was bad enough, but different lines for different amounts?  That is unbelievable!

I don't see it so much as trying to buy your way into heaven, as much as i see it as trying to buy your status in the eyes of men. Why separate the lines? I can understand having a number of lines in order to allow the process to flow much faster and much smoother, ...but to have a $5, $10, $50, $500, or even $1,000 line? That's for show.

I agree w/Jag. 


Parker, what church is that please?

[Parker]

That is ridiculous. 


I visited a church once that had everyone go up to the front to give their offering.  I thought that was bad enough, but different lines for different amounts?  That is unbelievable!


I agree w/Jag. 


Parker, what church is that please?

Many of the big churches, you know like AME, generally in urban areas like Reliegh, Baltimore, DC,  you know the whole production type of churches. That is where I have noticed it. Good chance it is other churches as well

[Count Grishnackh]

Those places merely prove what I've been saying all along - that religion is a good business to get into if you'd like to make a lot of money. 

Church is a multi-billion dollar, tax free enterprise !!!!!!!  I'd say that is a pretty good business venture.

[Count Grishnackh]

People who have abandoned their faith, or never found it, seem disproportionately hostile to religion. 

I think it's quite the opposite. I think the people who are too afraid to perhaps look at the moral fiber of their own faith, find hostility in being questioned or confronted about it.

It's kind of like of walking in on a cheating significant other, the first thing you will hear is a long list of every possible excuse that can be thought of, second you will hear anger, resentment and hostility and then third, finally the realization and remorse will set in and then they can move forward again with their life.

Of course some never make it to that 3rd step.

[Dos Equis]

i find the people who truly are sincere are those who have gone thru some ish. For instance, while in college I had a summer job, and there was this dude who had cheated on his wife. The mess that he went thru, showed him that, the way he was going was not right. He became faithful, and he showed a certain "realness", that many Christians who shout and scream, don't have. Why, because they have never really been tested.

And I truly beleive that you cannpt find God within a house. God is everywhere, all around you, and especially within you. I have a theory, have you ever seen pics of when a person takes their last breath, what happeneds is the supposedly the spirit is released. It looks like a breath (smoke). Well, didn't God braeth life into Adam? Just something i thought about.   

I understand where you're coming from.  I would add that it is easier to find God in church than many other places (e.g., a strip club). 

[Dos Equis]

I think it's quite the opposite. I think the people who are too afraid to perhaps look at the moral fiber of their own faith, find hostility in being questioned or confronted about it.

It's kind of like of walking in on a cheating significant other, the first thing you will hear is a long list of every possible excuse that can be thought of, second you will hear anger, resentment and hostility and then third, finally the realization and remorse will set in and then they can move forward again with their life.

Of course some never make it to that 3rd step.

That hasn't been my experience at all.  I have been in the church my entire life.  I've read and studied many other religions.  I've had many discussions and debates with atheists and agnostics.  I'm very comfortable with my belief in God and in Christianity.  What I've heard and experienced from atheists and agnostics is hostility.  A common theme from those who have been willing to share is something along the lines of "where was God when I needed him?"  Many of these people experienced tough times and are angry with God for not preventing and/or stopping some kind of suffering or pain (whether it involves money, relationships, etc.).

But to say that you will find a larger percentage of true Christians at Wal-Mart rather than church is just an overstatement.  Certainly hasn't been my experience.   

[Count Grishnackh]

But to say that you will find a larger percentage of true Christians at Wal-Mart rather than church is just an overstatement.  Certainly hasn't been my experience.   

I said I don't expect to find any higher percentage of people attending church that are true christians as I would find shopping in a Walmart on Thursday night.

I stand by that.

[Dos Equis]

I said I don't expect to find any higher percentage of people attending church that are true christians as I would find shopping in a Walmart on Thursday night.

I stand by that.

O.K.  Still think it's overstatement. 

[loco]

Many of you have proably been to church where you make a "free will offering". Well in some big churches they have lines for the various denominations that you are going to give. For instance, the 5 dollar line, the 10 dollar line, the 50, 100, 1,000, 5, 000, etc., etc.

To me this seems like people who are trying to buy there way into heaven, as if giving $1,000 each Sabbath day , means that they are closer to GOD, or closer to getting in good with the Lord.

A Man who gives 5K because he is a high roller, is no more holy than the 85 year old woman who gives $5 because that is all she can afford from her Social Security check, and she has been going faithly to church and bible study since she was a child. 

That's wrong.  Jesus Christ and we, Christians, agree with you.

Mark 12:41-44
"Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins,worth only a fraction of a penny.
 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

Matthew 6:2
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."

I have been to many Christians churches in my lifetime, and I have never seen anything like what you saw.  Most Christians churches are not like that.

[loco]

Church is a multi-billion dollar, tax free enterprise !!!!!!!  I'd say that is a pretty good business venture.

Yes, and I'm sure there are probably some corrupt, abusive, con artists who take advantage of this and misuse or steal some of this money.  However, a lot of this money has been used to feed the poor, help the orphans and the widows and spread the message of Jesus Christ to all nations.  I have experienced this first hand.

1. Southern Baptist Missionaries gave up their comfy life styles in the US and moved to my native country to preach the gospel to my great grand parents.  Thanks to them, I was blessed and was raised in a great Christan home, by great Christian parents in a good Christian church

2. I personally know a widow whose husband died suddenly and left her with a mortgage, bills, debt, etc.  His life insurance was enough to cover some of it, but not all.  Christian individuals and churches around the US pitched a dollar here, a dollar there until she had received around $50,000.  These people didn't even know the widow.  They just did it out of love for Jesus.

3. I personally know of a couple who got broken into around Christmas.  All their valuable possessions and Christmas presents got stolen.  They were struggling financially so they didn't have renters insurance.  Their church secretly got the list of stolen goods from the police and used it as a shopping list.  They went shopping and bought almost everything back for them, everything that they could find.  They also gave the couple a good amount of cash for the things that the church couldn't find.

There is more, but this is getting too long.  I don't have a problem giving money to my church.  I have experienced first hand that this money is put to good use.

[24KT]

People who have abandoned their faith, or never found it, seem disproportionately hostile to religion. 

I doubt the hostility is directed towards the religion, moreso than towards those who proselytize it without thought or consideration to what they are actually saying and implying. I'm sure that's where the bulk of the hostilty is directed.

[24KT]

O.K.  Still think it's overstatement. 

{LOL} Beachbum, how is that an overstatement?

Re-read Grischnackh's comment again, ...pause, read it again, pause and read it a 5th, 6th or even 7th time if needed.

But don't add anything to it. That's the problem with communication. People write one thing, and other people will read something completely different from what has been written, adding to it their own baggage and prejudices. Take away everything, and leave only his words. You'll find no overstatement, ...just a statement.

[the choad]

I understand where you're coming from.  I would add that it is easier to find God in church than many other places (e.g., a strip club). 

I'd rather give my money to the community as opposed to the fucking man..

Wait a minute god is all around us...So the probabilty of finding God at a church is no greater than finding him at a nuddy bar..the probability of finding him at either place is .00000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 000001

[Dos Equis]

I doubt the hostility is directed towards the religion, moreso than towards those who proselytize it without thought or consideration to what they are actually saying and implying. I'm sure that's where the bulk of the hostilty is directed.

Not really.  It is directed to God, who in the eyes of the people I've spoken with, did not come through for them. 

Yes there are many people who criticize those who are very open about their Christianity, but they're in a different category.  Those people aren't necessarily atheists or agnostics.  They're often engaged in behavior that the Bible condemns, and take every opportunity to highlight when a professed Christian "sins."   

[Dos Equis]

{LOL} Beachbum, how is that an overstatement?

Re-read Grischnackh's comment again, ...pause, read it again, pause and read it a 5th, 6th or even 7th time if needed.

But don't add anything to it. That's the problem with communication. People write one thing, and other people will read something completely different from what has been written, adding to it their own baggage and prejudices. Take away everything, and leave only his words. You'll find no overstatement, ...just a statement.

"I don't expect to see any higher percentage of true christians in a church on sunday than I would in a walmart on thursday evening."

Obviously, this is all a matter of opinion, and I don't expect we will agree.  This is an overstatement based on my experience, because I am in church about 50 out of 52 weeks of the year and I am in Wal-Mart almost once a week too.  I think the majority of the people I encounter in church are "true Christians."  It's pretty apparent to me that you will find a higher percentage of Christians in a place where Christians frequent, more so than a discount store.  I understand the point he was trying to make, but it is overstated in my view.  It's like saying you'll find a higher percentage of great athletes in Wal-Mart than on a football field.

But I am huge fan of Sam Walton.  I have his autobiography "Made in America" on my office shelf.