Are rights being infringed upon

[bigdumbbell]

How could someone ever go and get pregnant when being a smoker?

And how could they ever continue smoke with the baby and all?

What kind of mother does that? 


-Hedge

there are tons of white trash mothers who smoke

[G o a t b o y]

i think the right to smoke ends where the other person's nose starts... like, you should be able to smoke 24/7, tobacco, weed, crack, i don't care.  but the moment you ruin another person's right to smell the fresh air, there is the problem.

Agree.

[GoneAway]

It's a little thing called Health. I think it's a great idea to be punished by law for smoking in the house/car with children. It's common sense.

[Theoak*]

How could someone ever go and get pregnant when being a smoker?

And how could they ever continue smoke with the baby and all?

What kind of mother does that? 


-Hedge

Exactly, smokes are poison. Do I think this law should be passed? maybe not, but I sure as hell wouldnt want the mother of my child smoking near my kids or while pregnant. Shit if they made AAS illegal why not smoking?

[Hedgehog]

wow now I'm a lousy being. Now I can sleep better tonight knowing that

It takes 15 years for people who stops smoking to get their risk ratio down to normal for lung cancer.

Just a little FYI.

So when your kid is in Junior High, then you're safe.

-Hedge

[AVBG]

In Australia, it is all but illegal to smoke in any enclosed areas (except your home or private address), I don't mind it at all, its pretty good to go to a bar and leave without smelling like crap.

The gun laws are extremely tight, its not a right to bear arms here and that's a relief.. IMO.

[NarcissisticDeity]

first you cant smoke in public places,, then you cant smoke in bars,, then you cant smoke in your car.. you see where things are going. its not just smoking its everything.. little by little the liberal government wants to run every aspect of our lives..

conservative government= less government,less laws,,less restrictions,,more self responsibility
liberal government= more laws,more restrictions,,more government responsibility,, less self responsibility

Why is the Government intervening? because they have to subsidize all the medical costs associated with the problems directly caused by smoking , to they're trying to nip the problem in the bud , every year more people die from smoking related problems than people in the American Revolution , American Civil War , World War I , World War II , Korea , Vietnam and both Gulf wars COMBINED almost half a million a year every year .

[G o a t b o y]

Why is the Government intervening? because they have to subsidize all the medical costs associated with the problems directly caused by smoking , to they're trying to nip the problem in the bud

Who costs the government more, someone who dies instantly from a smoking-related heart attack at 57, or a non-smoker who lives to 85, having spent 20 years on social security and medicare, the last six of which are spent in and out of the hospital with various expensive medical ills associated with old age?


Food for thought re: your argument.

[Hedgehog]

You can't compare cigarettes to guns.

Cigarettes can't be used in any responsible way.

Even alcohol has its pros, it makes people socialise better.

They are toxic. Period.

If someone came up with the idea of cigarettes today, do you seriously think any nation would allow it? They don't allow ephedera, which isn't even in the same ballpark as cigarettes when it comes to toxicology.

Enough of wasted lives, less effective workforces. It's not only a huge tragedy for all those people who loses their lives and their relatives to cigarette-related diseases. But also a big waste of money for the society as a whole.

Ban it.

-Hedge

[newmom]

It takes 15 years for people who stops smoking to get their risk ratio down to normal for lung cancer.

Just a little FYI.

So when your kid is in Junior High, then you're safe.

-Hedge

thanks hedge

[Theoak*]

You can't compare cigarettes to guns.

Cigarettes can't be used in any responsible way.

Even alcohol has its pros, it makes people socialise better.

They are toxic. Period.

If someone came up with the idea of cigarettes today, do you seriously think any nation would allow it? They don't allow ephedera, which isn't even in the same ballpark as cigarettes when it comes to toxicology.

Enough of wasted lives, less effective workforces. It's not only a huge tragedy for all those people who loses their lives and their relatives to cigarette-related diseases. But also a big waste of money for the society as a whole.

Ban it.

-Hedge

Perhaps newmom is under the impression if she keeps her lighter in a safety box on one side of the house and her cigarettes in another safety on the other side of the house that would constitute her being a responsible smoker.

[240 is Back]

600k died in the civil war, if middle school history doesn't fail me...

[NarcissisticDeity]

600k died in the civil war, if middle school history doesn't fail me...

Okay minus the civil war lol

[newmom]

the oak you know me so well lol

[Ozzy]

The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II, irrespective of political alignment, was roughly 62 million people. The civilian toll was around 37 million, the military toll about 25 million. The Allies lost around 51 million people, and the Axis lost 11 million.

[Hedgehog]

Who costs the government more, someone who dies instantly from a smoking-related heart attack at 57, or a non-smoker who lives to 85, having spent 20 years on social security and medicare, the last six of which are spent in and out of the hospital with various expensive medical ills associated with old age?


Food for thought re: your argument.

The average smoker and the average non-smoker.

Those are the two you have to compare Goat.

And lets pretend the facts that smokers are usually low-educated, un-intellectual, et al...

But the average smoker and the average non-smoker, out of those two, the non-smoker has better health, and also costs the society less.

Why?

Because he has fewer sick days, and is also able to work longer up in his age.

And, not to mention...

HE DOESN'T GO OUT FOR A SMOKE!!!

Case closed.

-Hedge

[240 is Back]

In Australia, it is all but illegal to smoke in any enclosed areas (except your home or private address), I don't mind it at all, its pretty good to go to a bar and leave without smelling like crap.

I play in 2 to 3 local bands in florida, where they have a smoking ban in bars.  no one enforces it.  they work around it, re-designate areas, create patios which connect to the bar/restaurant, etc etc.  When it was first passed, I loved it - playing in crystal clear clubs instead of hazy nasty places where I would come home and need 15 min of scrubbing to smell better.  But in the last 2-3 years, it's hurt business so bad (along with the hurricanes and our new high temperatures all year due to global warming) that they just don't follow it.

[kh300]

Why is the Government intervening? because they have to subsidize all the medical costs associated with the problems directly caused by smoking , to they're trying to nip the problem in the bud , every year more people die from smoking related problems than people in the American Revolution , American Civil War , World War I , World War II , Korea , Vietnam and both Gulf wars COMBINED almost half a million a year every year .

its not just smoking.. but its everything else too.. new laws are created everyday that take our rights away..

theres a guy in vermont who raped a 4 year old and got off with probation-no jail time.. theres no law that requires jail time for rape,,but now we need a law about smoking?

[bigdumbbell]

I play in 2 to 3 local bands in florida, where they have a smoking ban in bars.  no one enforces it.  they work around it, re-designate areas, create patios which connect to the bar/restaurant, etc etc.  When it was first passed, I loved it - playing in crystal clear clubs instead of hazy nasty places where I would come home and need 15 min of scrubbing to smell better.  But in the last 2-3 years, it's hurt business so bad (along with the hurricanes and our new high temperatures all year due to global warming) that they just don't follow it.

typical florida  retard state

[240 is Back]

conservative government= less government,less laws,,less restrictions,,more self responsibility
liberal government= more laws,more restrictions,,more government responsibility,, less self responsibility

new laws are created everyday that take our rights away..

Given which party has owned all the lawmaking power for the last six years, you just contradicted yourself.

[G o a t b o y]

You can't compare cigarettes to guns.

Cigarettes can't be used in any responsible way.

Even alcohol has its pros, it makes people socialise better.

They are toxic. Period.

If someone came up with the idea of cigarettes today, do you seriously think any nation would allow it? They don't allow ephedera, which isn't even in the same ballpark as cigarettes when it comes to toxicology.

I don't disagree with you, but the bigger question is are we going to allow government to intrude in the private lives of grown adults and prevent them from making stupid decisions?  Unlike you Europeans, I don't like paternalistic governments. We don't believe in that sort of thing in America... or at least we didn't used to, I'm not so sure about the current generation of young liberal idiots.

Like I said earlier, I'm torn on this issue.  I really dislike smoking, but I dislike government oppression more. I think 240 said it best...  you should be allowed to smoke whatever the fucck you want in private, but the moment it hits someone else's nostrils, that's where your rights end and the rights of the other person begin.

[NarcissisticDeity]

its not just smoking.. but its everything else too.. new laws are created everyday that take our rights away..

theres a guy in vermont who raped a 4 year old and got off with probation-no jail time.. theres no law that requires jail time for rape,,but now we need a law about smoking?

Oh I agree Stem-cell research etc , but smoking I mean this isn't a bad thing it effects all of us one way or another.

[Ozzy]

The average smoker and the average non-smoker.

Those are the two you have to compare Goat.

And lets pretend the facts that smokers are usually low-educated, un-intellectual, et al...

But the average smoker and the average non-smoker, out of those two, the non-smoker has better health, and also costs the society less.

Why?

Because he has fewer sick days, and is also able to work longer up in his age.

And, not to mention...

HE DOESN'T GO OUT FOR A SMOKE!!!

Case closed.

-Hedge

Wow, I guess all the billions in taxes and whatnot tobacco users pay to the government don't do anything. I guess all those scientists that smoke must actually be retards. Oh, and I've only been sick a few times in my life, usually catching the flu from someone else. Same with my Uncle, who's been smoking for a long time.

Case re-opened.

[Theoak*]

Wow, I guess all the billions in taxes and whatnot tobacco users pay to the government don't do anything. I guess all those scientists that smoke must actually be retards. Oh, and I've only been sick a few times in my life, usually catching the flu from someone else. Same with my Uncle, who's been smoking for a long time.

Case re-opened.

We will see how your views change when you are coughing up blood.

[Hedgehog]

I don't disagree with you, but the bigger question is are we going to allow government to intrude in the private lives of grown adults and prevent them from making stupid decisions?  Unlike you Europeans, I don't like paternalistic governments. We don't believe in that sort of thing in America... of at least we didn't used to, I'm not so sure about the current generation of young liberal idiots.

Like I said earlier, I'm torn on this issue.  I really dislike smoking, but I dislike government oppression more. I think 240 said it best...  you should be allowed to smoke whatever the fucck you want in private, but the moment it hits someone else's nostrils, that's where your rights end and the rights of the other person begin.

Great argument.

There is that old liberal tradition in USA, going all the way back to the constitution I guess.

I see your point, but I also think that something that is only negative, definitely should be banned.

Cocaine is banned, why not cigarettes?

They're not equally dangerous, but they're both poisonous. And both kills.

-Hedge