VIDEO: Vince Gironda Dip

[Bluto]

Vince had his own ideas on how to best work the chest, here's some guys doing a modified version of his v-bar dip:

[pumpster]

Vince loved isolations. As far as compounds, he suggested variations that made them more effective. Bench press for example:

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[Bluto]

Interesting clips, I don't know anyone currently using his different exercises and theories that can show the results from it, but it's interesting stuff nevertheless since he seemed to have his own ideas.

I could see myself giving the dip a try.

[pumpster]

Interesting clips, I don't know anyone currently using his different exercises and theories that can show the results from it, but it's interesting stuff nevertheless since he seemed to have his own ideas.

I could see myself giving the dip a try.

That they're not commonly used says more about the prevalency of conventional thought. His methods were ahead of their time and are some of the best ever, as were some of Arthur Jones' training methods completely aside from HIT.

The v-dip is fairly similar in ROM to decline flys. That's why they're so good.

[jpm101]

Those "V" dipping bars have been around for at least 50 years. Very important piece of equipment for that pec/delt tie-in. Funny, some people have never heard of them. We have one at our gym. Where, with the "V" shape, you can go extra wide or extra close for the grip. It's made special, where the handle/gripping bar can lock in to turn knuckles forward or inwards when dipping. Also hit's the triceps at a different angles.

Of course the decline fly (or press) has no relation to the "V" at all. Not even close. Physic's are totally different from one another, with regard to muscle curve, action/reaction, placement of resistance, etc.. Just have to look at either exercise to notice that right away. Good Luck.

[Bluto]

I've never seen the V shaped dips bar in person. They just have the regular one at my gym unfortunately.

[pumpster]

Of course the decline fly (or press) has no relation to the "V" at all. Not even close. Physic's are totally different from one another, with regard to muscle curve, action/reaction, placement of resistance, etc.. Just have to look at either exercise to notice that right away. Good Luck.

Consistently wrong, and always accompanied by precisely nothing of substance to refute anything.

I salute JPM for maintaining a long tradition of limited thinking.  Also very very strong on stating the obvious re: training methods-stuff's right out of the book.

[pumpster]

I've never seen the V shaped dips bar in person. They just have the regular one at my gym unfortunately.

A good example of how the mainstream inexplicably sometimes gets it wrong, with the standard dip bars not as effective.

[jpm101]

"V" bar dips and Decline presses: trying to keep this short.

A) Dips, along with chins, are sometimes referred to as a body's motion through space exercise. As opposed to most any other exercise, where the body is somewhat stable and in a fixed position (feet planted as in squats & DL's, reclining/sitting  on a bench, etc). With body through space exercises, they tend to call into action more joint/muscle response. Making the "V" dip a true compound exercise (one of the reasons chins and dips should be included in everyone back/chest program from time to time).  Decline presses/fly's are limited in this regard.

B) Decline presses are an out in front and away from the body movement. "V" dip's (or any other dipping action) is an down, along the body plain, push movement. Different responses to the joint/muscle from either exercise.

C) Gironda used the compound "V" dips (and their different versions) to focus on that all important pec/delt tie in. The main reason he favored that exercise. If done correctly, it will also hit the inner and upper portions of the chest.  (the whole pec structure is involved in most any chest pressing exercise, but there can be more focus on certain parts depending on hand position, angle and preforming of the exercise).

One thing that Gironda did not like were heavy developed lower pec's (along with big butt's on men...hence the Sissy squat). One of the reasons he  had designed a better dipping exercise plan (over the regular dipping bar) was to direct  resistance onto the middle/upper part of the pec's. The Decline press will target the lower pec's so much more, as will  regular dipping exercise.

Nothing wrong with decline presses, very rewarding for a lot of men/women. But they are not to be confused with the superior, overall development that may be achieved with the "V" dipping bar. The decline press is not similar or just as good as the "V" bar.They offer different muscle responces. Good Luck.

[pumpster]

"V" bar dips and Decline presses: trying to keep this short.

A) Dips, along with chins, are sometimes referred to as a body's motion through space exercise. As opposed to most any other exercise, where the body is somewhat stable and in a fixed position (feet planted as in squats & DL's, reclining/sitting  on a bench, etc). With body through space exercises, they tend to call into action more joint/muscle response. Making the "V" dip a true compound exercise (one of the reasons chins and dips should be included in everyone back/chest program from time to time).  Decline presses/fly's are limited in this regard.

B) Decline presses are an out in front and away from the body movement. "V" dip's (or any other dipping action) is an down, along the body plain, push movement. Different responses to the joint/muscle from either exercise.

C) Gironda used the compound "V" dips (and their different versions) to focus on that all important pec/delt tie in. The main reason he favored that exercise. If done correctly, it will also hit the inner and upper portions of the chest.  (the whole pec structure is involved in most any chest pressing exercise, but there can be more focus on certain parts depending on hand position, angle and preforming of the exercise).

One thing that Gironda did not like were heavy developed lower pec's (along with big butt's on men...hence the Sissy squat). One of the reasons he  had designed a better dipping exercise plan (over the regular dipping bar) was to direct  resistance onto the middle/upper part of the pec's. The Decline press will target the lower pec's so much more, as will  regular dipping exercise.

Nothing wrong with decline presses, very rewarding for a lot of men/women. But they are not to be confused with the superior, overall development that may be achieved with the "V" dipping bar. The decline press is not similar or just as good as the "V" bar.They offer different muscle responces. Good Luck.

V-bar dips and flys are similar. What JPM still fails to comprehend is that Gironda used modified ROMS on many compound motions, precisely because he felt as i do, that standard compounds aren't particularly effective for BB. JPM still hasn't picked up on this nuance even with advanced age.

Hence Gironda's dip bar, the special version of bench press, the special form of squats-all intended to address some of the inadequacies of standard compounds. JPM should retire the long-winded rhetoric long enough to pick up these nuances that continue for years now to allude him.

[jpm101]

It's a shame some people must revert to personal attacks. Always a sign of weakness and not really offering any thing in a way of proving their side of a disagreement. And that's all it is, different view points. Nothing too serious to worry about.

Gironda's version of the BP to the neck ( full ROM) was to avoid developing the lower pec's, not to avoid the inadequacies of the compound regular BP, just a different angle. Those "V" bar dips (full ROM) were another tool used to stay away from the low pec's and target the middle/upper chest better. Also to stress the pec/delt tie in. The Sissy squat (a very full ROM) was used to focus on the quads themselves, rather than involving the hip/glutes as the standard squat will do. Again, not to avoid the inadequacies of the regular compound squat, just a different angle. DB fly's will lose the resistance point about one third to a half up from the starting bottom point. This will make it so much more an incomplete exercise compared to the "V" dip. Simple stuff, really. Cable and pec decks are so much more functional but still not all that close to "V" dips.

This will be my last post on this thread, less it go on forever like some tend to do. Pointless really. Good Luck.

PS: I'll be 35 near the end of this year...don't really feel that's too old. Been working out with serious intent since 16 years old. Been to most of the heavy lifting gym's from the Mexican boarder to Ventura county and watched and trained with some very large gentlemen. So I may have absorbed  some knowledge (no matte how little) through the years.

[pumpster]

It's a shame some people must revert to personal attacks. Always a sign of weakness and not really offering any thing in a way of proving their side of a disagreement. And that's all it is, different view points. Nothing too serious to worry about.

Gironda's version of the BP to the neck ( full ROM) was to avoid developing the lower pec's, not to avoid the inadequacies of the compound regular BP, just a different angle. Those "V" bar dips (full ROM) were another tool used to stay away from the low pec's and target the middle/upper chest better. Also to stress the pec/delt tie in. The Sissy squat (a very full ROM) was used to focus on the quads themselves, rather than involving the hip/glutes as the standard squat will do. Again, not to avoid the inadequacies of the regular compound squat, just a different angle. DB fly's will lose the resistance point about one third to a half up from the starting bottom point. This will make it so much more an incomplete exercise compared to the "V" dip. Simple stuff, really. Cable and pec decks are so much more functional but still not all that close to "V" dips.

This will be my last post on this thread, less it go on forever like some tend to do. Pointless really. Good Luck.

PS: I'll be 35 near the end of this year...don't really feel that's too old. Been working out with serious intent since 16 years old. Been to most of the heavy lifting gym's from the Mexican boarder to Ventura county and watched and trained with some very large gentlemen. So I may have absorbed  some knowledge (no matte how little) through the years.

If this guy really knew anything he'd be able to do better than one-dimensional beginner's-level advice.

For example on flys he leaves out a critical point because he himself isn't aware. Guys like Schwarzenegger got around the shortcoming of flys by eliminating the top portion of the ROM. Do this and as Arnold found, it was a great exercise, contrary to what our friend claims. Or as i've said many times here, do pulley flys or pec deck - apparently i have to explain basics because this character inevitably leaves out critical portions that result in misleading conclusions. Not well informed.

Gironda's version of the BP to the neck ( full ROM) was to avoid developing the lower pec's, not to avoid the inadequacies of the compound regular BP, just a different angle.

Utter garbage from JPM once again, all due to shallow understandings of training. Excerpt, T-Nation:

The greatest strength of Gironda was his capacity to design exercise variations that perfectly stimulated the desired muscle group. For example, he quickly understood that for the majority of the population the bench press is actually a poor chest builder. Most people will over-stimulate their anterior deltoid and/or triceps, leaving the pectorals relatively under-stimulated.
So Gironda did something unthinkable at the time (even today): he all but banned the regular bench press from his gym! None of his trainees used it. Talk about kicking a sacred cow! In all fairness, his trainees did use the bench press, but mostly the wide-grip neck press variation.

This is much like a regular bench press except you use a wide grip, keep your lower back flat on the bench, and (most important of all) you bring the bar down to the base of your neck while flaring out the elbows. This fully stretches the pectorals and directs the contraction path in accordance to the orientation of the pectoral muscle fibers. Both factors make this lift a superior chest builder.

Why isn't it seen more often then? Ego! You see, when using this movement you'll have to use much less weight than you can in a regular bench press. That's because the delts and triceps aren't brought into play as much. Most people we see in gyms everyday train on the bench press to impress others (hence the famous question, "How much do you bench?").

Someway, somehow, the bench press has become our test of manhood. Considering that fact, do you think that an exercise that makes you appear like you're bench pressing less weight (to the untrained eye, the neck press resembles a regular bench press), thus being less of a man, would catch on? Not likely, and it's sad really because people really are missing out on a great pec builder.