DISGUSTED: Bodybuilding Guru?

[Mr. Intenseone]

Intenseone how did you manage to get so fat with clean food?

Who says I'm fat? Too many carbs maybe, but not fat !

[Disgusted]

So your saying that you can't get ripped and dry with Twinkies and Haagen Daz ??

Weeeeeelll, I could prove that theory correct by posting my pic but I will save myself the embarrassment. 

[troponin]

Dear God, this is not rocket science. There are certainly fundamental principles that I base my training on and they have worked everytime for ALL people. Some of the stuff that you guys are arguing about are pointless. Yes there is more than one way to ripped but some ways are more efficient than others. The main thing that I see people screw up on is drying out. No one seems to understand this. Shredded dry and with as little muscle loss as possible is the key. Understand this and you have won no matter how you place.

Agree wholeheartedly.  

I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study.  I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.  
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.  

None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.

I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow.  I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective.  If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.  
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.  

[The True Adonis]

Who says I'm fat? Too many carbs maybe, but not fat !

You did get fat.


You looked best when you were eating around 1800 calories and less.

[The True Adonis]

Agree wholeheartedly.  

I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study.  I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.  
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.  

None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.

I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow.  I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective.  If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.  
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.  

I don`t agree.

[Mr. Intenseone]

You did get fat.


You looked best when you were eating around 1800 calories and less.

Can't be ripped all the time, but I can swear on my Father that I have abs @ 230!

[swilkins1984]

Agree wholeheartedly.  

I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study.  I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.  
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.  

None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.

I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow.  I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective.  If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.  
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.  

So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.

[The True Adonis]

So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.

We aren`t done yet.

You cannot make a judgement.

But he has lost 8-10 lbs so far.  Of PURE FAT.  GO to www.musculardevelopment. com Natural Section.

Case Study 1.

I will have more people joining him as well.

Everyone will be doing pictures on a weekly basis.

Stay tuned and learn something.

[the choad]

ketogenic is the best and the easiest way for me..I usually use a CKD for cutting 5-6 days of zero carbs, followed by a 1000 gram carb day then a 600 gram of carb day...Then i start the whole cycle again... I only need like 6-10 weeks to cut up after a long winter bulk...I'm talking about cutting down to 7-8% bodyfat range....There's no need for me to go any further than that..

[The True Adonis]

So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.

No such thing as an Ectomorph.

[swilkins1984]

We aren`t done yet.

You cannot make a judgement.

But he has lost 8-10 lbs so far.  Of PURE FAT.  GO to www.musculardevelopment. com Natural Section.

Case Study 1.

I will have more people joining him as well.

Everyone will be doing pictures on a weekly basis.

Stay tuned and learn something.

Adonis I will admit I saw the progress from about 4-5days on your diet for Chase and it definitely looks like he lost some fat. I'm just wondering if it is more of an intial bodily response to a low calorie diet and will taper off with time. I'll keep watching though...

[troponin]

So, do you think Adonis is lying about the diet he used to get lean or is he maybe an extreme ectomorph that loses weight easily? Or whatever else you think? His case study at MD is a 6'2 250+lb guy eating 1780-1800cals a day of anything and is supposed to come in with zero muscle loss and lean.

The key point that has been neglected here is the terms "weight" and "fat."  Weight loss will obviously occur in a hypo-caloric diet.  That cannot be denied.  
Fat loss is controlled by other, and more complex processes than just calories in v. calories out.  

The thing with posts like this, is they end up becoming entirely self serving.  I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either.  So, things like this become a debate on nothing.  
After a well designed post defining exactly how a calorie is not a calorie, all Adonis has to say is "I disagree," even when the point is not debatable.  

[the choad]

Can't be ripped all the time, but I can swear on my Father that I have abs @ 230!

I hope your not just talking about the top two abs mr intenseone..Cause some dudes can show those with upwards of  25% which is pretty fucking fat..

[swilkins1984]

No such thing as an Ectomorph.

What about those skinny guys that eat way more than everyone else don't exercise and don't gain a pound muscle or fat? There is no such thing as a naturally faster than usual metabolism?

[Disgusted]

Agree wholeheartedly.  

I have not butchered, or used chunks of any study.  I only stated physiological facts regarding insulin and its effects on fatty acid oxidation.  
The basic facts are saturated fat and processed sugar are not optimally conducive to promoting a physique with the most possible muscle mass, with the lowest possible fat mass.  

None of my statements on the enzymatic actions in response to certain macronutrients are false, or in anyway debatable.

I've stated from the begining that I don't care at all what diet people follow.  I don't even care if people don't feel my methods are effective.  If you can achieve your personal goals with a particular diet, that is great.  
But, from a physiological stand point, in regards to muscle mass, glycogen storage, water storage, and fat storage, a calorie is not a calorie.  

I have alway said that a calorie is not a calorie and I have seen this time and time again in the real world when putting not just a BBer on a diet but the general public. I would love to have a round table discussion at the Arnold with everyone there. I'm up for it if anyone is going.

[Rich Gainihger]

I have alway said that a calorie is not a calorie and I have seen this time and time again in the real world when putting not just a BBer on a diet but the general public. I would love to have a round table discussion at the Arnold with everyone there. I'm up for it if anyone is going.

who's bringing the table?

[swilkins1984]

I'm trying to figure out how the diet could work. Is it because it is low glycemic (i.e. burgers because of fat supress insulin in the buns, and sugar-free ice cream?) on a low calorie diet?

[Disgusted]

who's bringing the table?

Smartass.   

[swilkins1984]

who's bringing the table?

Nice timing 

[Disgusted]

I have a feeling that this is what it would end up looking like.  

[swilkins1984]

I have a feeling that this is what it would end up being.  

LMFAO

[The True Adonis]

Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Of course Protein, Carbohydrates and Fats each have a different function.

But as far as energy values go, of course a Calorie is a Calorie and will always be so no matter what.

In a caloric defecit, all calories ingested are burned. If not, then you are not in a caloric defecit.

[rjp]

The key point that has been neglected here is the terms "weight" and "fat."  Weight loss will obviously occur in a hypo-caloric diet.  That cannot be denied. 
Fat loss is controlled by other, and more complex processes than just calories in v. calories out. 

The thing with posts like this, is they end up becoming entirely self serving.  I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either.  So, things like this become a debate on nothing. 
After a well designed post defining exactly how a calorie is not a calorie, all Adonis has to say is "I disagree," even when the point is not debatable. 

Your posts were spot on and there is a reason they were not debated...they are undeniable facts as we currently understand the body. The only reply he can give is "I don't agree".

The problem even with Adonis' case study or any study involving the weight loss of an individual is that it's a one time deal and you don't get a do-over. What I mean is let's say TA's subject comes in ripped eventually...which I believe he actually will if he continues. How would we know what he would have looked like had he followed a more conventional diet? We can't know; only theorize. Similarly if someone uses a conventional diet there's no telling what they would have looked like eating in a caloric deficit of only donuts.

So how do you prove the most efficient method of fat loss/muscle sparing? You can't use two different people since their metabolisms will differ. You possibly could use the same person using a TA diet during one period and a convential diet on another but even then how do you keep a control on other factors such as activity level or a change in their own metabolism? You can't in the practical world.

Therefore, I believe the only thing that TA's case study may prove is you can get lean eating a non traditional diet. What it will fail to prove because it's nearly impossible to prove is if it is better than a traditional diet and that he retained as much or more muscle than if he dieted traditionally.

[troponin]

Your posts were spot on and there is a reason they were not debated...they are undeniable facts as we currently understand the body. The only reply he can give is "I don't agree".

The problem even with Adonis' case study or any study involving the weight loss of an individual is that it's a one time deal and you don't get a do-over. What I mean is let's say TA's subject comes in ripped eventually...which I believe he actually will if he continues. How would we know what he would have looked like had he followed a more conventional diet? We can't know; only theorize. Similarly if someone uses a conventional diet there's no telling what they would have looked like eating in a caloric deficit of only donuts.

So how do you prove the most efficient method of fat loss/muscle sparing? You can't use two different people since their metabolisms will differ. You possibly could use the same person using a TA diet during one period and a convential diet on another but even then how do you keep a control on other factors such as activity level or a change in their own metabolism? You can't in the practical world.

Therefore, I believe the only thing that TA's case study may prove is you can get lean eating a non traditional diet. What it will fail to prove because it's nearly impossible to prove is if it is better than a traditional diet and that he retained as much or more muscle than if he dieted traditionally.

Thanks. 
I think everyone could agree that WEIGHT loss is inevitable when less calories are taken in than are being burned.  That should be obvious.  But, that should be the extent at which that tool is marketed. 
Optimizing body fat loss, while simultaneously minimizing muscle mass loss requires more planning than that. 

What is important is basic understanding of human physiology and nutrition.  The better you understand the processes that are going on when nutrients are utilized by the body, the better you can potentially be at maximizing fat loss, while minimizing muscle loss.

[Van_Bilderass]

I doubt anyone has actually read my posts on how insulin actually blunts fat loss......and to be honest, I probably wouldn't have read them either.  So, things like this become a debate on nothing. 

I read your posts and asked a follow up question re: what you mean by "presence of insulin". Please look back at my post.