Author Topic: Who Pays Almost All Federal Income Tax?  (Read 45838 times)

Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2008, 07:43:40 AM »
You are way off with this one, not true in the majority of cases..."Tort reform in the popular sense is nonsense.  It's a way to artificially cap recoveries to benefit of the wealthy".

All the legal work to protect from lawsuits raises the cost of business in every field.  In the medical field, it does nothing of the sort.  Frivilous lawsuits and extreme payouts for damages cost everyone money from the hospital to the physician, to the practice, the staff, the insurance companies and finally the patients.  This is not debateable.  Medicine is practiced differently because of malpractice lawyers and the costs to practice medicine are much higher.  A neurologist I worked with had his malpractice double in one year.  He was in private practice.  He had to cut 2 of his employees and reduced his salary that year.  For family practice doctors, malpractice can be $20,000 per year, for specialists, its 5-6 times that.  Its out of hand.
Lawyers serve an important function but some of the unscrupulous behavior has gotten out of control and has affected nearly all of us in one field or another.
This is highly debatable b/c you've fallen for a PR pitch.  Tort reform is a ploy by big tobacco, big pharmaceuticals, the gun lobby, big insurance and other corporate giants to shield corporations from liability.

This is a non-issue for the Republicans.  It has all the urgency of other 'pressing' issues like saving marriage, voter fraud or WMDs in Iraq.

If the costs of malpractice insurance upsets you, why don't you take it up with the insurer?  And if doctors hate the high costs of malpractice insurance, then stop cutting off the wrong damn foot.  In other words, if doctors did a minimally competent job, the costs would go down.

Incidentally, lawyers have malpractice insurance costs as well.

Frivolous lawsuits are nipped in the bud early...usually a motion to dismiss will take care of that and there are penalties for bringing such lawsuits...including disbarment for the attorney bringing the suit.  Another non-issue to get upset over.

shootfighter1

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2008, 07:55:25 AM »
PR pitch my ass.  I am in the middle of it in medicine and can tell you how it works and affects us.

"If the costs of malpractice insurance upsets you, why don't you take it up with the insurer?  And if doctors hate the high costs of malpractice insurance, then stop cutting off the wrong damn foot.  In other words, if doctors did a minimally competent job, the costs would go down"

If this is your assessment of the situation, we'll stop debating because you have no insight on the effect or depth of the malpractice issue in the US.  Take it up with the insurer?  Are you kidding?  If you are even named in a suit, no matter how ridiculous it is, your rates go up and you may be disqualified from certain jobs and plans.  Do you know how easy it is to be named in a suit?  There's no standard of negligence to be named, thats proved in court. There are many lawyers who take cases just to settle them for $, regardless if they are just.  Most hospitals settle and private docs are terrified of the court.  My brother is a lawyer (not malpractice) but he at least sees both sides of the issue.  My malpractice for a small family practice clinic is nearly $20,000 per year.  I will make less than $100K this year.  Specialist insurance runs $40-125,000 per year.  Thats just protection from lawsuits.  You think that is reasonable?
Also, medicine is an art based in science but some hold it as an absolute where unexpected bad outcomes can be held against the practitioner.  I am in full agreement for malpractice when something like 'the wrong foot is cut off' but there are thousands of suits that are nothing like that.

The is no pre-screening anymore for medical lawsuits.  Its up to the lawyer to take the case forward or not, which is inapropriate.

War-Horse

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2008, 08:56:03 AM »
PR pitch my ass.  I am in the middle of it in medicine and can tell you how it works and affects us.

"If the costs of malpractice insurance upsets you, why don't you take it up with the insurer?  And if doctors hate the high costs of malpractice insurance, then stop cutting off the wrong damn foot.  In other words, if doctors did a minimally competent job, the costs would go down"

If this is your assessment of the situation, we'll stop debating because you have no insight on the effect or depth of the malpractice issue in the US.  Take it up with the insurer?  Are you kidding?  If you are even named in a suit, no matter how ridiculous it is, your rates go up and you may be disqualified from certain jobs and plans.  Do you know how easy it is to be named in a suit?  There's no standard of negligence to be named, thats proved in court. There are many lawyers who take cases just to settle them for $, regardless if they are just.  Most hospitals settle and private docs are terrified of the court.  My brother is a lawyer (not malpractice) but he at least sees both sides of the issue.  My malpractice for a small family practice clinic is nearly $20,000 per year.  I will make less than $100K this year.  Specialist insurance runs $40-125,000 per year.  Thats just protection from lawsuits.  You think that is reasonable?
Also, medicine is an art based in science but some hold it as an absolute where unexpected bad outcomes can be held against the practitioner.  I am in full agreement for malpractice when something like 'the wrong foot is cut off' but there are thousands of suits that are nothing like that.

The is no pre-screening anymore for medical lawsuits.  Its up to the lawyer to take the case forward or not, which is inapropriate.



Isnt it neat how "Private enterprise" regulates itself.   Welcome to the free market.

Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2008, 08:56:40 AM »
PR pitch my ass.  I am in the middle of it in medicine and can tell you how it works and affects us.

"If the costs of malpractice insurance upsets you, why don't you take it up with the insurer?  And if doctors hate the high costs of malpractice insurance, then stop cutting off the wrong damn foot.  In other words, if doctors did a minimally competent job, the costs would go down"

If this is your assessment of the situation, we'll stop debating because you have no insight on the effect or depth of the malpractice issue in the US.  If you are even named in a suit, no matter how ridiculous it is, your rates go up and you may be disqualified from certain jobs and plans.  There are many lawyers who take cases just to settle them for $, regardless if they are just.
That's fantastic.  So the malpractice insurer has no appeal system?  That's interesting.  Every other insurer under the sun has offices to redress issues.

Nevada and California in the '70s and '80s did "tort reform" in response to spikes in Mal. insurance premiums.  You know what the result was?  Zilch.  The insurance companies left the premiums as is.  

There's your tort reform.  Ineffective.

Proving a medical malpractice claim is extremely difficult.  Generally the standard of minimal competency is doctor-friendly b/c the plaintiff must show the doctor did not exercise minimal care employed by peers under the circumstance.  Expert testimony by other doctors is a given.

If a doctor has his attorney settle just to make the case go away, then that doctor is either a fool or he knows he's responsible for the damages complained of.

Back when I was in lawschool, I looked into this a bit.  Back then over 35 states capped non-econonmic damages already.  I'm sure that's gone up.  Anyways, frivolous lawsuits are handled in a few different ways "Summary Judgment", "Directed Verdicts", "JNOV (judgment notwithstanding the verdict), the appeals process, and finally the contingency payment method used by almost all lawyers in these types of cases (the lawyer gets zilch if he loses begging the question, "If a lawyer files a frivolous lawsuit, how the hell does he make a living?")

The odds of a frivolous lawsuit working are about nil.

Please point out the cases or dollar amounts from these "frivolous lawsuits" which are ruining the practice of medicine in this country.

"...The report released yesterday, called the "Medical Malpractice Closed Claim Study," covered July 1995 to June 2005. It was the second such report Kreidler's office has released this year."  "...Both reports were deemed "unremarkable" by Kreidler's staff, who said the reports show no huge spikes in the number of malpractice claims or payouts."  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002540408_medmal05m.html

It ain't the lawyers, it's the insurance companies.

War-Horse

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2008, 09:00:53 AM »
Hahahaha.  Decker is getting ready to "School" someone else.   Run for cover..... ;D

Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2008, 10:22:43 AM »
Hahahaha.  Decker is getting ready to "School" someone else.   Run for cover..... ;D
I'm not doing that.  I just think that shootfighter1 is repeating big business propaganda.  Look, GW Bush believes Tort Reform is a good idea so by that association it must be BS or a pending-disaster.

It's really a way to permit Government to interfere in an overly burdensome way with the operations of lawsuits btn private individuals.


War-Horse

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2008, 10:27:35 AM »
I'm not doing that.  I just think that shootfighter1 is repeating big business propaganda.  Look, GW Bush believes Tort Reform is a good idea so by that association it must be BS or a pending-disaster.

It's really a way to permit Government to interfere in an overly burdensome way with the operations of lawsuits btn private individuals.




I know.  Im just a trouble maker... :)    Your right tho.  This admin is a massive epic failure.

Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2008, 11:08:07 AM »

I know.  Im just a trouble maker... :)    Your right tho.  This admin is a massive epic failure.
Sorry, My sense of humor does not compute today.  For the millionth time this year, the flu is going around our office and i just can't avoid it.

24KT

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2008, 01:15:14 PM »
Judi, WTF does the plight of a 3rd world country have to do with the unfair progressive tax system in the United States? Do you think by raising my taxes it's going to make their lives any better? Hasn't the United States given enough money to 3rd world dictators just so we can borrow another billion dollars from China?

The taxes collected by your government are for providing for the security and infrastructure of YOUR country.


Another prime example of taking a statement "out of context" and twisting it to support an agenda.
my statement had nothing to do with your argument, and everything to do with the statement of the poster to whom I was responding.
w

w8tlftr

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2008, 02:19:43 PM »
Another prime example of taking a statement "out of context" and twisting it to support an agenda.
my statement had nothing to do with your argument, and everything to do with the statement of the poster to whom I was responding.

What agenda? I don't have an agenda other than taking care of my family and not being another slug that mooches off hard working tax payers.

You really make me scratch my head trying to figure you out, woman.   :-\

gcb

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2008, 07:26:31 PM »
I WAS one of those "cogs" and I worked my way up to where I am today. Fvck the rest if they're are not willing to put in the hard work and sacrifices to succeed.

No one in this life owes anyone a fvcking thing. If your life is ard or if you think things are *sniff* unfair then do something about it or get used to hearing, "it sucks to be you."

So, yeah, I'm telling you I earn 300k and deserve to keep it. I worked for it - YOU didn't.




You're missing the point - the infrastructure and "cogs" contribute more to your wealth than you ever could. You may well deserve to have gotten where you are because you worked hard - I'm not denying that, people do need a carrot to be motivated. The illusion you are under is that somehow you "created" all your wealth - you didn't its part and parcel of living in a modern technologically advance society.

24KT

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2008, 01:49:10 AM »
What agenda? I don't have an agenda other than taking care of my family and not being another slug that mooches off hard working tax payers.

No agenda? Maybe that your problem? Want one?  :D I can give you a mission and a purpose bigger than both of us

Quote
You really make me scratch my head trying to figure you out, woman.   :-\



You think you can figure out women, ...let alone this woman?  {LOL}

pssst: If you ever figutre out a woman, ...don't sleep with her, ...cause chances are it ain't a woman, ...it's a man in drag
You will NEVER figure us out. We are a mystery. Those who try are either stupid, or masochists, or love playing with moving goal posts.
w

w8tlftr

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2008, 03:25:32 AM »
You're missing the point - the infrastructure and "cogs" contribute more to your wealth than you ever could. You may well deserve to have gotten where you are because you worked hard - I'm not denying that, people do need a carrot to be motivated. The illusion you are under is that somehow you "created" all your wealth - you didn't its part and parcel of living in a modern technologically advance society.

Fair enough but now I think you misunderstand me. I fully realize that I didn't create my wealth. I am just one member of a team that makes the machine I work on function. That still doesn't mean that whatever I earn isn't mine because of the plight of some poor bastard in a third world country.


w8tlftr

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2008, 03:52:14 AM »
No agenda? Maybe that your problem? Want one?  :D I can give you a mission and a purpose bigger than both of us



You think you can figure out women, ...let alone this woman?  {LOL}

pssst: If you ever figutre out a woman, ...don't sleep with her, ...cause chances are it ain't a woman, ...it's a man in drag
You will NEVER figure us out. We are a mystery. Those who try are either stupid, or masochists, or love playing with moving goal posts.


LOL

w8tlftr

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2008, 04:29:40 AM »

are you referring to Halliburtion or Big Oil ?



NT

Yes

And don't forget all the subsidies for corn farmers.

How long before we're paying $10.00 for a gallon of milk?



24KT

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #90 on: April 03, 2008, 06:15:58 AM »
Fair enough but now I think you misunderstand me. I fully realize that I didn't create my wealth. I am just one member of a team that makes the machine I work on function. That still doesn't mean that whatever I earn isn't mine because of the plight of some poor bastard in a third world country.


Realize that for most, it is quite often upon the backs of those poor 3rd. world bastards that we stand.



Yes

Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Neither Haliburton, nor Big Oil can be considered some poor bastard in a third world country.
(Didn't think we'd catch that huh didja?)   :P

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And don't forget all the subsidies for corn farmers.

How long before we're paying $10.00 for a gallon of milk?

Not long, and the price of bread, and many other things will go up as well.
You joke about driving a gas guzzler that pollutes, and you laugh at us "tree-huggers" on a mission to get the word out about how to reduce pollution, and reduce fuel consumption at the same time, but you fail to see the big picture. While wasting gas, or consuming more gas than you have to, ...you're causing the rise in the prices of the very staples you need to get by. We're in a difficult situation as it is, ...with more and more farms switching over to corn, we :
  • 1st.end up losing our bio-diversity
  • 2nd.effectively reduce our food supply even more, ...at a time when we can least afford to do so

All that additional corn will be turned into ethanol, rather than for feeding Americans

When I get time, I'll post about the threat posed by BioFuels. It's very shocking & rather eye-opening!  :o
w

w8tlftr

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #91 on: April 03, 2008, 06:48:28 AM »
Realize that for most, it is quite often upon the backs of those poor 3rd. world bastards that we stand.

What did Bush Sr. say, "the worlds needs ditch diggers too."?

Every pyramid needs a strong base, Judi. All the more reason to teach our children that education is the key to a brighter future.

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Liar, liar, pants on fire!
Neither Haliburton, nor Big Oil can be considered some poor bastard in a third world country.
(Didn't think we'd catch that huh didja?)   :P

Now YOU'RE taking my quote out of context. I was referring to those that mooch off the government at the tax payers expense. What makes Haliburton or Big Oil different from the inner city slut that can't keep her legs together and is raising 10 kids off of welfare?

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Not long, and the price of bread, and many other things will go up as well.
You joke about driving a gas guzzler that pollutes, and you laugh at us "tree-huggers" on a mission to get the word out about how to reduce pollution, and reduce fuel consumption at the same time, but you fail to see the big picture. While wasting gas, or consuming more gas than you have to, ...you're causing the rise in the prices of the very staples you need to get by. We're in a difficult situation as it is, ...with more and more farms switching over to corn, we :
  • 1st.end up losing our bio-diversity
  • 2nd.effectively reduce our food supply even more, ...at a time when we can least afford to do so

All that additional corn will be turned into ethanol, rather than for feeding Americans

When I get time, I'll post about the threat posed by BioFuels. It's very shocking & rather eye-opening!  :o

Drill for more oil, baby, and build some damn refineries! The United States would be sitting on the world's largest oil reserves if we just took off the chain around our necks.

I also hit another squirrel today. I think I'll name him Shakes. He'll have his place of honor next to the other squirrel and bunny silhouettes on the door of my V-8 Touareg.  ;)

Seriously though, I think it's time to park the SUV in the garage and buy a hooptie to commute in.  :P



shootfighter1

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #92 on: April 03, 2008, 09:09:35 AM »
I agree that the insurance companies are a real problem, but lawyers share a good bit of blame too.  Insurance companies base claims on risk, lawyers increase the risk by lawsuits (some too eagerly).  I'm not going to look up research, I've seen it in journals for the last 10 yrs.  Here's 1 quick article that disagrees with you.  I'm sure theres both sides of the issue. 
http://www.northwestern.edu/observer/issues/2006/11/15/tort.html

This is an incorrect statement:
 "Generally the standard of minimal competency is doctor-friendly b/c the plaintiff must show the doctor did not exercise minimal care employed by peers under the circumstance".  It is NOT minimal, the definition is "generally accepted standard"...big difference.  Standard of care is where much of the arguing of experts occurs.  Minimal is the wrong word, if your a lawyer, you should know that.  Its general standard (+negligence with some damages incurred).

"If a doctor has his attorney settle just to make the case go away, then that doctor is either a fool or he knows he's responsible for the damages complained of".
Decker, you seem reasonably intelligent.  This statement is ridiculous.  Lawyers typically eat docs for breakfast on the stand, its their field.  Defense attorneys are expensive.  Going through legal proceedings are expensive, time consuming and disrupt the work and care of the medical professional.  Most hospitals force the lawyers to settle on befalf of the doctor.  Many physician groups settle to avoid greater payment via large settlements, legal fees and time lost.  Though you often have intelligent responces here, You must have no experience in this particular legal field.

You still haven't addressed the biggest issue.  Anytime a doc is named in a claim, their insurance rises, its on their permanent record and their privilages may be limited.  That is completely unfair without an independent screening process, which we don't have!

Tort reform may not be the best to affect insurance premiums, but its a reasonable measure nontheless, to discourage outrageous payouts.  About time we inject more reasonable behavior & basic logic into the legal field instead of semantics and deception for profit.  The goal of lawyers is to win, not to be just and fair...totally different purpose than doctors, who typically enter the field to help people.





shootfighter1

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #93 on: April 03, 2008, 09:12:13 AM »
Decker, look at this from John Kerry in 2004.  I love it!  He was right about this.  This is probably at least as effective, if not more, compared to tort reform.

August 04, 2004

'I bet most people in this room don’t know that there is a policy,' said Chris Jennings, president of Washington-based Jennings Policy Strategies Inc. Mr. Jennings said that Sen. Kerry’s policy would focus on preventing medical errors and promoting patient safety but would require that malpractice claims be reviewed by medical specialists to ensure that a 'reasonable grievance exists.' Mr. Jennings said that lawyers who brought three frivolous medical malpractice claims would be barred from bringing further claims, and mediation—rather than litigation—would be an option for all medical malpractice claims. In addition, punitive damages would be barred in all medical malpractice cases except those involving 'reckless indifference to life,' said Mr. Jennings, a former adviser to President Clinton who now serves as an unpaid adviser to the Kerry campaign.




Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #94 on: April 03, 2008, 10:48:48 AM »
Quote
I agree that the insurance companies are a real problem, but lawyers share a good bit of blame too.  Insurance companies base claims on risk, lawyers increase the risk by lawsuits (some too eagerly).  I'm not going to look up research, I've seen it in journals for the last 10 yrs.  Here's 1 quick article that disagrees with you.  I'm sure theres both sides of the issue. 
http://www.northwestern.edu/observer/issues/2006/11/15/tort.html

That article states that caps on damages generally limits settlement amounts.  I have never disputed that.  In fact, it seems rather logical.  Limiting damages will lower settlement offers.

Quote
This is an incorrect statement:
 "Generally the standard of minimal competency is doctor-friendly b/c the plaintiff must show the doctor did not exercise minimal care employed by peers under the circumstance".  It is NOT minimal, the definition is "generally accepted standard"...big difference.  Standard of care is where much of the arguing of experts occurs.  Minimal is the wrong word, if your a lawyer, you should know that.  Its general standard (+negligence with some damages incurred).

There is no "one definition” for professional negligence.  Each state defines professional negligence its own way.  I was merely pointing out that, for the most part, professional competency is measured by a baseline (minimal) level of care common to like-professionals under like-circumstances.  I think I did a good job summing it up.


Quote
"If a doctor has his attorney settle just to make the case go away, then that doctor is either a fool or he knows he's responsible for the damages complained of".
Decker, you seem reasonably intelligent.  This statement is ridiculous.  Lawyers typically eat docs for breakfast on the stand, its their field.  Defense attorneys are expensive.  Going through legal proceedings are expensive, time consuming and disrupt the work and care of the medical professional.  Most hospitals force the lawyers to settle on befalf of the doctor.  Many physician groups settle to avoid greater payment via large settlements, legal fees and time lost.  Though you often have intelligent responces here, You must have no experience in this particular legal field.
Courts generally throw out frivolous lawsuits quickly.  A motion to dismiss will take care of it.  And if the lawsuit is indeed frivolous, the plaintiff will likely pick up court costs and attorney costs.

Lawyers for the plaintiff are expensive too.  And they get paid only if they win.  If the plaintiff’s lawyer files a ‘frivolous’ lawsuit, odds are he won’t get paid.  Unless of course the Dr. in question has hired sub-par counsel that caves in and settles.  If a lawsuit is frivolous, a court can order the plaintiff to pay for courts costs and attorney fees for the defendant.

You grotesquely misstate the ease with which a plaintiff can score a settlement.  You make it sound as if the filing of a lawsuit inexorably leads to a big payday settlement.  That’s not how it works.


Quote
You still haven't addressed the biggest issue.  Anytime a doc is named in a claim, their insurance rises, its on their permanent record and their privilages may be limited.  That is completely unfair without an independent screening process, which we don't have!
My first sentence addressed this.  All insurance companies have appeal procedures in place to address any problems.  And if they don’t, isn’t that an insurance company problem?   Why blame the legal system?


Quote
Tort reform may not be the best to affect insurance premiums, but its a reasonable measure nontheless, to discourage outrageous payouts.  About time we inject more reasonable behavior & basic logic into the legal field instead of semantics and deception for profit.  The goal of lawyers is to win, not to be just and fair...totally different purpose than doctors, who typically enter the field to help people.
Tort reform does absolutely nothing to drive down the costs of professional negligence insurance.  That’s a matter of history.

What tort reform does do is limit the liability of negligent Big Corporations and doctors.  Big Corporations are now encouraged to make more dangerous products and Doctors are encouraged to be less careful b/c damages are capped at an artificial level.   I mean why order that expensive MRI test if you don't have to?

I just hope that you never have a problem like this:

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Rhode Island Hospital has been fined $50,000 and reprimanded by the state Department of Health after its third instance this year of a doctor performing brain surgery in the wrong side of a patient's head.

Dos Equis

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2008, 12:37:06 AM »
"Tort reform" is no different than socialized medicine IMO.  We need a socialized legal system about as much as we need government-controlled healthcare.

Decker

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #96 on: April 08, 2008, 12:28:11 PM »
Medical Errors Costing U.S. Billions

Mistakes resulted in 238,337 preventable deaths from 2004-06, survey finds

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100199884&GT1=31036

I tell you folks, it's those damn trial lawyers that are driving up the costs of malpractice insurance!

(I did that in my best Rush Limbaugh voice)

War-Horse

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #97 on: April 08, 2008, 01:53:21 PM »
Medical Errors Costing U.S. Billions

Mistakes resulted in 238,337 preventable deaths from 2004-06, survey finds

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100199884&GT1=31036

I tell you folks, it's those damn trial lawyers that are driving up the costs of malpractice insurance!

(I did that in my best Rush Limbaugh voice)



LOL.   that was easy to visualize.   

Ive run into alot of people that are proud of suing the state for workercomp or govt for SSecurity.   I love it when they video a guy watersking doing air tricks while hes living off our money......busted!!!

Dos Equis

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2010, 11:13:31 PM »
Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax
Recession, new tax credits have nearly half of US households paying no federal income tax

Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer, On Wednesday April 7, 2010

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

Most people still are required to file returns by the April 15 deadline. The penalty for skipping it is limited to the amount of taxes owed, but it's still almost always better to file: That's the only way to get a refund of all the income taxes withheld by employers.

In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.

Tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

"We have 50 percent of people who are getting something for nothing," said Curtis Dubay, senior tax policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property.

That helps explain the country's aversion to taxes, said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert Deloitte Tax. He said many people simply look at the difference between their gross pay and their take-home pay and blame the government for the disparity.

"It's not uncommon for people to think that their Social Security taxes, their 401(k) contributions, their share of employer health premiums, all of that stuff in their mind gets lumped into income taxes," Stretch said.

The federal income tax is the government's largest source of revenue, raising more than $900 billion -- or a little less than half of all government receipts -- in the budget year that ended last Sept. 30. But with deductions and credits, especially for families with children, there have long been people who don't pay it, mainly lower-income families.

The number of households that don't pay federal income taxes increased substantially in 2008, when the poor economy reduced incomes and Congress cut taxes in an attempt to help recovery.

In 2007, about 38 percent of households paid no federal income tax, a figure that jumped to 49 percent in 2008, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center.

In 2008, President George W. Bush signed a law providing most families with rebate checks of $300 to $1,200. Last year, Obama signed the economic recovery law that expanded some tax credits and created others. Most targeted low- and middle-income families.

Obama's Making Work Pay credit provides as much as $800 to couples and $400 to individuals. The expanded child tax credit provides $1,000 for each child under 17. The Earned Income Tax Credit provides up to $5,657 to low-income families with at least three children.

There are also tax credits for college expenses, buying a new home and upgrading an existing home with energy-efficient doors, windows, furnaces and other appliances. Many of the credits are refundable, meaning if the credits exceed the amount of income taxes owed, the taxpayer gets a payment from the government for the difference.

"All these things are ways the government says, if you do this, we'll reduce your tax bill by some amount," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center.

The government could provide the same benefits through spending programs, with the same effect on the federal budget, Williams said. But it sounds better for politicians to say they cut taxes rather than they started a new spending program, he added.

Obama has pushed tax cuts for low- and middle-income families and tax increases for the wealthy, arguing that wealthier taxpayers fared well in the past decade, so it's time to pay up. The nation's wealthiest taxpayers did get big tax breaks under Bush, with the top marginal tax rate reduced from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, and the second-highest rate reduced from 36 percent to 33 percent.

But income tax rates were lowered at every income level. The changes made it relatively easy for families of four making $50,000 to eliminate their income tax liability.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.

Internal Revenue Service: http://www.irs.gov

Tax Policy Center: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1

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Re: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2010, 11:56:55 PM »
In the meantime, they'll support any flat-tax (introduced by millionaires, oddly) which will crash their buying power and of course, greatly shrink the buying power of the lowest 20% - the same 20% that keeps the portfolios of the top 20% loaded.

Think about what will happen to your WMT stock when a lot of its shoppers see their buying power decrease by 23% (or whatever number Steve Forbes is telling us this week)

Massive Truth.
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