Will Americans discriminate again based on religion in the Presidential race?

[Cap]

If Rudy Guiliani wins the Republican nomination, will he lose the Presidential race based on the fact that he is Catholic?  As a Catholic I think he would.  I wonder if he was a Democrat like Kennedy if it would be less of an issue.  Hmmm.

Sure there are other things like him being pro choice, pro gay rights and pro gun control will possible ding his candidacy but I think this will be a big issue because people in America sure do not like the idea of a Catholic being in power.

[Hedgehog]

Good point.

I remember some years ago when some politician was "outed" as an Atheist. She was burned.

-Hedge

[240 is Back]

If Rudy Guiliani wins the Republican nomination, will he lose the Presidential race based on the fact that he is Catholic?  As a Catholic I think he would.  I wonder if he was a Democrat like Kennedy if it would be less of an issue.  Hmmm.

Sure there are other things like him being pro choice, pro gay rights and pro gun control will possible ding his candidacy but I think this will be a big issue because people in America sure do not like the idea of a Catholic being in power.

2006 showed that none of these issues matter in comparison to the war.

You add two MORE years of a pro-war republican saying "We're in the war and you can't stop us".

There's a lot of resentment motivating people to vote anti-war.  2000 and 2004 were virgin tight even when there was no divisive issue.  In 2008, with things as they are, people would put a purple dinosaur into office it means stopping 4 more years of the Repub bullies.

[Cap]

2006 showed that none of these issues matter in comparison to the war.

You add two MORE years of a pro-war republican saying "We're in the war and you can't stop us".

There's a lot of resentment motivating people to vote anti-war.  2000 and 2004 were virgin tight even when there was no divisive issue.  In 2008, with things as they are, people would put a purple dinosaur into office it means stopping 4 more years of the Repub bullies.

So do you contend that supporting the war makes all Republicans bullies?  That's pretty narrow minded.

[240 is Back]

So do you contend that supporting the war makes all Republicans bullies?  That's pretty narrow minded.

Dick Cheney said that even if 99% of Americans didn't support the war, NOTHING would change about his policy. 

THAT is a bully move.  "I'm vice president and they're not".  He said that too.


Yes, people resent that shit.  Especially when only 25% of America backs the war surge.

[24KT]

If Rudy Guiliani wins the Republican nomination, will he lose the Presidential race based on the fact that he is Catholic?  As a Catholic I think he would.  I wonder if he was a Democrat like Kennedy if it would be less of an issue.  Hmmm.

It quite possibly could hurt him, and might not be as much of an issue if he were a Democrat.

I say this only because Republicans over the past few years have heavily courted the Christian Bible belt. A large percentage of it's base are very fundamentalist and borderline bigots. (That's not to say that every Republican, or every fundamentalist Christian is a bigot, but a large portion of the Republican base is) I personally think his religion is irrelevant, but a lot of the Republican voter base does not.

Sure there are other things like him being pro choice, pro gay rights and pro gun control will possible ding his candidacy but I think this will be a big issue because people in America sure do not like the idea of a Catholic being in power.

I'd prefer to live in a world where his stance on reproductive rights, civil rights, and constitutional rights are deemed more important than his religion. But if that's not the case, y'all really better pray for the future of your country.

[Cap]

Dick Cheney said that even if 99% of Americans didn't support the war, NOTHING would change about his policy. 

THAT is a bully move.  "I'm vice president and they're not".  He said that too.


Yes, people resent that shit.  Especially when only 25% of America backs the war surge.

Does he intimidate you or anyone you know?  If so then you are being bullied.  If not then you are just crying because you aren't getting your way.  I would argue that politicians, such as Cheney, say the things they do because the average Joe does not know enough abou the military and Iraq to make an informed decision.  It's like the blacks in Vietnam saying, "Ah Ain't fightin no white man's war."  That was a blanket statement made followed by "no Chinaman eva called me no nig ger."  It's the same thing with the MTV generation.

[Dos Equis]

It quite possibly could hurt him, and might not be as much of an issue if he were a Democrat.

I say this only because Republicans over the past few years have heavily courted the Christian Bible belt. A large percentage of it's base are very fundamentalist and borderline bigots. (That's not to say that every Republican, or every fundamentalist Christian is a bigot, but a large portion of the Republican base is) I personally think his religion is irrelevant, but a lot of the Republican voter base does not.

I'd prefer to live in a world where his stance on reproductive rights, civil rights, and constitutional rights are deemed more important than his religion. But if that's not the case, y'all really better pray for the future of your country.

lol.  Deciphering:
 
Reproductive rights = abortion
civil rights = homosexual marriage
constitutional rights = obliterating the First Amendment

How did I do? 

[240 is Back]

Does he intimidate you or anyone you know?  If so then you are being bullied.  If not then you are just crying because you aren't getting your way.  I would argue that politicians, such as Cheney, say the things they do because the average Joe does not know enough abou the military and Iraq to make an informed decision.  It's like the blacks in Vietnam saying, "Ah Ain't fightin no white man's war."  That was a blanket statement made followed by "no Chinaman eva called me no nig ger."  It's the same thing with the MTV generation.

Are you reading this?

Cheney said the will of the AMerican people no longer influences the Bush Admin decision making on the war.

If 99% of AMerica writes a letter to the WHite House asking them to end the war, they will not listen.  This is what he's saying. 

That is bullying, yes.  Or, it's taking a big dump in your lap and calling it democracy.

[Cap]

Are you reading this?

Cheney said the will of the AMerican people no longer influences the Bush Admin decision making on the war.

If 99% of AMerica writes a letter to the WHite House asking them to end the war, they will not listen.  This is what he's saying. 

That is bullying, yes.  Or, it's taking a big dump in your lap and calling it democracy.

Do 99% of the population care about anything in that war except having people come home.  When I first debated the war with many liberals their onyl argument against the war was loss of life.  Explain that.  That has nothing to do with strategy.  The average american thinks we should never lose a life in combat or it's a lost cause.  That is the truth pal. 

[24KT]

lol.  Deciphering:
 
Reproductive rights = abortion
civil rights = homosexual marriage
constitutional rights = obliterating the First Amendment

How did I do? 

Not very well I'm afraid.   
In your attempt to mock you lost sight of the big picture. however, your myopia has been well noted.

reproductive rights = his stance on reproductive rights... whether he be pro-choice or anti-abortion.
civil rights = the rights of all citizens to have the same rights & priviledges without marginalization
constitutional rights = His stance on the right to bear arms.

I was refering specifically to the points Cap raised in his post, however, constitutional rights encompasses much more than mere gun ownership rights.

Hope That Clarifies.

[Dos Equis]

Not very well I'm afraid.   
In your attempt to mock you lost sight of the big picture. however, your myopia has been well noted.

reproductive rights = his stance on reproductive rights... whether he be pro-choice or anti-abortion.
civil rights = the rights of all citizens to have the same rights & priviledges without marginalization
constitutional rights = His stance on the right to bear arms.

I was refering specifically to the points Cap raised in his post, however, constitutional rights encompasses much more than mere gun ownership rights.

Hope That Clarifies.

Ah two out of three ain't bad.   

[240 is Back]

Do 99% of the population care about anything in that war except having people come home.  When I first debated the war with many liberals their onyl argument against the war was loss of life.  Explain that.  That has nothing to do with strategy.  The average american thinks we should never lose a life in combat or it's a lost cause.  That is the truth pal. 

You can talk all day about the leve of understanding, and you're right.  Most don't get it.

But, it will come down to one-liners:

McCain and Rudy support Bush's policy there.

Hilary and Obama support ending the war.

Period.  

[24KT]

Do 99% of the population care about anything in that war except having people come home.  When I first debated the war with many liberals their onyl argument against the war was loss of life.  Explain that.  That has nothing to do with strategy.  The average american thinks we should never lose a life in combat or it's a lost cause.  That is the truth pal. 

Tho I'm not American, I think I have more of a pulse on the mentality of the average American than you.
And the average American thinks it's absolute insanity to continue an unjust and illegal war, which was started by lies and manipulation of the truth, to invade a sovereign nation that did no harm to them. They think it's egregious that so many of their sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and extended families are dying, being maimed and crippled over a lie, and to serve the goal of corporate profits, ...and that this is ruining the country at home. The average American thinks her best & brightest should not be wasted like this, and that their children & grandchildren should not be saddled with the burdensome debt created by a petulant child with his head lodged firmly up his anatomy. Ignorant, dishonest, petulant little children throwing tantrums should not be allowed to dictate the fate of a nation.

[Cap]

Tho I'm not American, I think I have more of a pulse on the mentality of the average American than you.
And the average American thinks it's absolute insanity to continue an unjust and illegal war, which was started by lies and manipulation of the truth, to invade a sovereign nation that did no harm to them. They think it's egregious that so many of their sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and extended families are dying, being maimed and crippled over a lie, and to serve the goal of corporate profits, ...and that this is ruining the country at home. The average American thinks her best & brightest should not be wasted like this, and that their children & grandchildren should not be saddled with the burdensome debt created by a petulant child with his head lodged firmly up his anatomy. Ignorant, dishonest, petulant little children throwing tantrums should not be allowed to dictate the fate of a nation.

1. The average American (like Cindy Sheehan) thought her son's dress unifrom was great til he died.  Poor excuse lady.  That's not logical thinking on her part.  I guess with your point, Kerry should have never supported the war or made his comments about America's "best and brightest".

2. This remark encompasses everyone under 30 that I know in terms of the wars or police or any other person of authority.  Additionally, I think that comment speaks to every politician.

[240 is Back]

"The average american thinks we should never lose a life in combat or it's a lost cause."

Way off, there.  Seriously.

[240 is Back]

1. The average American (like Cindy Sheehan)

There is your problem.

Are you for real?

[Cap]

"The average american thinks we should never lose a life in combat or it's a lost cause."

Way off, there.  Seriously.

I heard the coke in Florida is good but damn.  Keep trying pal.  You know very little on these topics.  Why do you think people hated Vietnam, LOSS OF LIFE.  At least the World War 2 generation wasn't filled with a bunch of pussies that couldn't handle war.  Americans can't stand us losing one soldier.  We kill thousands but if one soldier gets killed it is breaking news.  Give me a break.

There is your problem.

Are you for real?

Stupid girls like this drag down support for troops.  Her son was a damn volunteer and she knew it.  If she had such qualms about him dying, she should have expressed them before he signed the papers.

[24KT]

1. The average American (like Cindy Sheehan) thought her son's dress unifrom was great til he died.  Poor excuse lady.  That's not logical thinking on her part.  I guess with your point, Kerry should have never supported the war or made his comments about America's "best and brightest".

2. This remark encompasses everyone under 30 that I know in terms of the wars or police or any other person of authority.  Additionally, I think that comment speaks to every politician.

1) Wasn't thinking of Cindy Sheehan at all. She's probably one of the very last people who comes to my mind.
The only time I think of her is when other people bring her up. She's a non-entity in my mind. As for the "best and brightest" ...wasn't even thinking about Kerry. I stopped thinking about him in 2004. I am refering to American military personnel. I call them the "best and brightest" Americans, not because they are incredibly smart, ...but the best in the sense that they want to serve their country unselfishly, ...and the brightest in that their desire to serve their fellow man makes them a bright point of light worthy of admiration. Having all the facts behind their service is something I'm not sure they understood. I have no doubt most believe they would only be called upon to defend their country, ...not to have their lives squandered away as cannon fodder in support of imperialistic designs of global hegemony and corporate greed.


2) {LOL} Wasn't addressing the under 30 crowd at all.
I was thinking more of the ignorant, dishonest, petulant child with the power to decide the fate of nations.

[Cap]

1) Wasn't thinking of Cindy Sheehan at all. She's probably one of the very last people who comes to my mind.
The only time I think of her is when other people bring her up. She's a non-entity in my mind. As for the "best and brightest" ...wasn't even thinking about Kerry. I stopped thinking about him in 2004. I am refering to American military personnel. I call them the "best and brightest" Americans, not because they are incredibly smart, ...but the best in the sense that they want to serve their country unselfishly, ...and the brightest in that their desire to serve their fellow man makes them a bright point of light worthy of admiration. Having all the facts behind their service is something I'm not sure they understood. I have no doubt most believe they would only be called upon to defend their country, ...not to have their lives squandered away as cannon fodder in support of imperialistic designs of global hegemony and corporate greed.


2) {LOL} Wasn't addressing the under 30 crowd at all.
I was thinking more of the ignorant, dishonest, petulant child with the power to decide the fate of nations.

Soldiers don't need facts, they need orders.  They don't need to believe in the mission, they follow orders.  Don't you know anything about the UCMJ?  No rights that normal citizens have.  You are not permitted to question orders. Deal with it.

Chavez? Kim Jong Il (forgive the spelling)?

[Dos Equis]

Soldiers don't need facts, they need orders.  They don't need to believe in the mission, they follow orders.  Don't you know anything about the UCMJ?  No rights that normal citizens have.  You are not permitted to question orders. Deal with it.

Good point.  The short answer is "no," Jag doesn't know anything about the UCMJ or the U.S. military.

[24KT]

I heard the coke in Florida is good but damn.  Keep trying pal. 

So now because he doesn't agree with your position, ...he's a coke head?

You know very little on these topics.

I'd venture to say he knows far more about this than you.
Your very posts on the issues gives rise to that sentiment.

Why do you think people hated Vietnam, LOSS OF LIFE.

That and the fact that the USA had no business going into Vietnam in the first place.
The USA's entry was based on another self-attack. Look it up.

At least the World War 2 generation wasn't filled with a bunch of pussies that couldn't handle war.  Americans can't stand us losing one soldier.  We kill thousands but if one soldier gets killed it is breaking news.  Give me a break.

Are you saying Americans didn't suffer casualities in World War 2?

Stupid girls like this drag down support for troops.

Can you leave the misogyny out of your comments?  please & thank you.

Her son was a damn volunteer and she knew it.  If she had such qualms about him dying, she should have expressed them before he signed the papers.

Herein lies the overwhelming folly in your debate, and clearly illustrates your narrow mindedness.
No one here is talking about Cindy Sheehan. That's already been stated clearly for you,
...yet you persist in arguing it's all about Cindy Sheehan. It's not about Sheehan.

[24KT]

Soldiers don't need facts, they need orders.  They don't need to believe in the mission, they follow orders.  Don't you know anything about the UCMJ?  No rights that normal citizens have.  You are not permitted to question orders. Deal with it.

Chavez? Kim Jong Il (forgive the spelling)?

yes, ...however, before they become soldiers, they should have an understanding of what it is they're signing up for
The PR campaigns tell them it is to defend America. The reality of service tells them corporate greed plays a part.
I think there's gonna be a lot of fragging going.

As for the 'You are not permitted to question orders' ...puts one in a nasty catch 22 doesn't it.
What was Nuremburg all about them if not establishing the right if not the duty to question orders?

[Cap]

So now because he doesn't agree with your position, ...he's a coke head? He made an incorrect statement but thinks he's right.

I'd venture to say he knows far more about this than you.  Okay.  Conspiracy theorists to the rescue.  His claim to fame is 9/11 nothing more
Your very posts on the issues gives rise to that sentiment.

That and the fact that the USA had no business going into Vietnam in the first place.
The USA's entry was based on another self-attack. Look it up. I know about the bombing of which you speak.  As far as the war, people didn't want loss of life and the hippy generation kept that going. 

Are you saying Americans didn't suffer casualities in World War 2? Learn to read for God sakes.  They had worse casualties and a harder war and they didn't bitch and gripe like all these sissies from the 70's on.

Can you leave the misogyny out of your comments?  please & thank you. I call a spade a spade

Herein lies the overwhelming folly in your debate, and clearly illustrates your narrow mindedness.
No one here is talking about Cindy Sheehan. That's already been stated clearly for you,
...yet you persist in arguing it's all about Cindy Sheehan. It's not about Sheehan. She represents a larger group of morons who are only bitching because theire sons died, not because of 9/11 or any other BS.  Hope that helps.

[Cap]

yes, ...however, before they become soldiers, they should have an understanding of what it is they're signing up for
The PR campaigns tell them it is to defend America. The reality of service tells them corporate greed plays a part.
I think there's gonna be a lot of fragging going.

As for the 'You are not permitted to question orders' ...puts one in a nasty catch 22 doesn't it.
What was Nuremburg all about them if not establishing the right if not the duty to question orders?

It doesn't matter what they believe.  People join for many reasons.  Fragging huh?  Using one jargon term does not make you an expert.  Systematically killing 6 million and fighting terrorists and others that hate us are two quite different scenarios.