Same Muscle 2x a week?

[Lugar]

Anyone ever train the same muscle or group of muscles twice a week, with one heavy (90% of max) and one light (60-70%) i.e. chest on Monday and Thursday......did you find there was enough recovery?

[thewickedtruth]

Yep and Yep if you eat and sleep enough.

[pumpster]

Anyone ever train the same muscle or group of muscles twice a week, with one heavy (90% of max) and one light (60-70%) i.e. chest on Monday and Thursday......did you find there was enough recovery?

Twice weekly's no problem. Keep the intensity up and the workouts shorter you can go 2-3 times a week/muscle.

[Lugar]

SO here's my MAX (90-95%) routine for chest day on Monday....what would you do today?  Change to dbells, and then what, reps, sets.........or stick to barbell?  Or maybe even smith to give the delts a break.........INCLINE BARBELL        
135x10      12
145x6      8
145x6      8
160x3-4   DROP   4
145X4      3
135x5      4
      
FLAT BARBELL (startHERE)      
0X15      
145X10      10
145X10      10
155X9      9
160X5   DROP   4
195x1+1      6
155x6      4
155x6      
      
PECK DECKS      
105+x12      12
120+x10      10
120+x10      10
120+x9   DROP   9
120x4      4
105x5      4
      
FLAT FLY      
30X10      10
35X10      10
40X10      10
45X10      10
       
      
PULLOVERS      
50X10      10
60X8      8
70X6      6

[jpm101]

Might try:

1) Inclines with a BB.
2)Flat bench with DB's..get a fuller chest stretch 
3) Pec Decks.

Can even reverse this order, if you wish, for more of a pre-exhaust experience. Even with heavy weights.

Doing flys and pullovers is redundant, not needed. Might also drop the total sets to at least half (or more) for that heavy chest program. I would do just 6 sets, total, on 90% days, if you plan on doing a lighter chest workout later that week. If your really doing 90-95% max, than the reps you have given are too high. One or 2 (based on max poundage) would be more in the range of max effort.

Thousands of trainees have applied the heavy/light system, twice a week, with success. Good Luck.

[Rimbaud]

I'll usually train biceps & triceps twice a week (one day light & one heavy). I sometimes do the same with chest (one day pressing movements & one day flyes & such). Sometimes I break up leags as well - for example one day do a lot of quads with only a little bit of hamstrings & the next time switch it around. But it all depends on how I feel. If I'm well rested & such I go for it. If not then once a week for chest & legs.

[pumpster]

Doing flys and pullovers is redundant, not needed.

No explanation accompanies this fundamentally incorrect bit of misinformation. Flys are ONE OF THE VERY BEST chest exercises, and can be easier on the shoulders than presses. Pullovers are ONE OF THE VERY BEST lat exercises, hit the chest somewhat but not primarily. There's not a huge overlap between them-KEEP BOTH. Two of the very best for the torso.

What IS redundant is flys and pec deck in the same workout. Very similar; I'd suggest using one of the other in a workout, but not both. By cutting one of them out you'll also reduce the total number of sets, a good thing as the numbers are high. If you use good intensity you will not need so many sets.

Try dumbbells, machines, etc.

[Nathan]

I agree I built my whole chest with flys. (benching bothers my shoulders due to an old injury)
2X per week is no problem as mentioned earlier as long as work outs are straight to the point efficient and 30-45min or so and you eat very well and sleep 8-10hrs or so a day. nice advice pumster peep's here are starting to actually make sense on this board I'll have to view it more offten now

[jpm101]

Pec decks are vastly superior to regular DB flys. As are cable flys/crossovers to regular DB flys. On a proper Pec Deck, the point of the elbows is where (and should be) the resistance is, giving more direct and total influence to the pec's. The regular DB fly is a very poor choice compared to the Pec Deck. Basic mechanics of the body explains that very well. Not hard to understand, pretty basic stuff really. Pullovers affect the outer pec structure  well, but that has all been covered by the flat DB bench and Pec deck.Bent arm pullovers will tend to influence the pecs more that the straight arm version. So including the less productive DB fly and pullover  becomes redundant and unneeded. Keep any program simple and to the point for best results. Good results.

[Lugar]

will you guys shoot me over a good routine for today since I maxed out Monday?  Much thanks.......should I go dbell heavy?  I did delts yesterday, so thinking it might now be a great idea....

[Lugar]

will you guys shoot me over a good routine for today since I maxed out Monday?  Much thanks.......should I go dbell heavy?  I did delts yesterday, so thinking it might now be a great idea....

[pumpster]

Pec decks are vastly superior to regular DB flys. As are cable flys/crossovers to regular DB flys. On a proper Pec Deck, the point of the elbows is where (and should be) the resistance is, giving more direct and total influence to the pec's. The regular DB fly is a very poor choice compared to the Pec Deck. Basic mechanics of the body explains that very well. Not hard to understand, pretty basic stuff really. Pullovers affect the outer pec structure  well, but that has all been covered by the flat DB bench and Pec deck.Bent arm pullovers will tend to influence the pecs more that the straight arm version. So including the less productive DB fly and pullover  becomes redundant and unneeded. Keep any program simple and to the point for best results. Good results.

Continues to be a poor student, as i've already been over this..I'm a biiiiig proponent of cable and machine work, anyone whose read my posts knows that. The fact is that flys done properly, as i've already spelled out (below, repeated for the cognitively challenged here) are still very very good, good & similar enough that doing them AND pec deck or cable flys in the same workout is redundant. Smarter to occasionally alternate between similar exercises for the beneficial shock value the change-up between them affords.

The best way to do flys as i've already mentioned a while ago, is to leave out the top 1/4-1/3 of the ROM; this maintains tension and creates an even better exercise. It's generally the way experienced BBs know to do it even if some here don't, and creates a serious alternative to cable or pec deck. Not the same, but similar.

[pumpster]

If your past 8-10 reps I'd up it till, you can only do 4-6 reps then work up to 8-10 again.

The only thing is that the injury potential goes way up with higher weight and very low reps. Also it's arguable that very low reps are quite as good for development; they put a lot of stress on the joints and ligaments. I'd suggest keeping the reps around 6 or higher..just a suggestion.

[Lugar]

sorry I should have looked at what you said more closely. I'd do legs 3-4 sets squats, 3-4 sets leg extentions, 3-4 sets hack squats, could do DL if you don't do it on back day, 3-4 sets standing clave raises, 3-4 sets seated calf raises. (standing and seated clave raises work the 2 different muscles within the calve.

are you drunk???

This is about chest.............could I get a good chest routine for my second day...is it wise to go heavy again?  Even though I maxed on Monday and did delts yesterday??/

[Nathan]

I don't understand what the hell you want, but if your going to be a jerk have fun on your own

[jpm101]

If one is going to suggest partial flys, than do so. If one  has always been a biiiiig proponent of cables and machines as first choice, why would DB fly's even be considered? I believe the idea is to offer sound training advice, not second rate training ideas. The only shock value is that DB fly's (1/4-1/3..which is it?), would only be considered if a person did not have access to a Pec Deck or selective cables. I would suggest dip's ("V" bar prefered) as a superior pec developer. It's like casting pearls before swine, some guy's just don't get it. Good luck.

[pumpster]

If one is going to suggest partial flys, than do so. If one  has always been a biiiiig proponent of cables and machines as first choice, why would DB fly's even be considered? I believe the idea is to offer sound training advice, not second rate training ideas.

The salient points are invariably missed/go over the head due to 2nd rate understandings or lack thereof, combined with an inherent need to make things seem more complex than they are. There's a demonstrated lack of understanding of nuance.

In this case the original post discussed flys as one of the exercises, so of course that is what was discussed. And it IS a viable good exercise-not "V" dips that weren't brought up and very few have access to; Jesus is common sense that difficult?

Those partial flys that "JPM" dismisses were Schwarzenegger's bread & butter along with presses. LOL

"JPM's" main forte seems to be injecting thinly-veiled insults into most posts. Fortunately no one takes this frustrated angry individual seriously.

[beatmaster]

yes, this is exactly what i do for chest, shoulders and arms, works for me!!!

i made better gain that way, but i make sure i have ay least 48 hours recovery (well it's more like 72 hours if you do it on monday and hit again on thursday)

[pumpster]

yes, this is exactly what i do for chest, shoulders and arms, works for me!!!

i made better gain that way, but i make sure i have ay least 48 hours recovery (well it's more like 72 hours if you do it on monday and hit again on thursday)

That's good-48 hours (2 days) to 72 hours (3 days) is fine in terms of rest.

[Princess L]

That's good-48 hours (2 days) to 72 hours (3 days) is fine in terms of rest.

How many times does this subject need to be addressed? 
Pumpster, don't you get tired of repeating yourself?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=114248.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=92371.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=123717.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=124980.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=116226.0

[jpm101]

Gee...I would think a serious BB'er ,working chest,would want a full TUT (time under tension) ROM, which is mostly obtained from the Pec Deck and cables (crossovers, etc). And not settle for only a partial ROM muscle tension from DB fly's. If your chest program was inclines flat BP and Peck Deck's (or maybe cable flys), why throw in unneeded sets of partial DB fly's?

I'm sure, by actually watching Arnold train (in the old time days) someone could really vouch for the partial DB flys' (along with presses) being his bread and butter. Or does someone believe everything they may read about Arnold and the way he  trained? And pass that on as the truth? Good luck.

[pumpster]

Gee...I would think a serious BB'er ,working chest,would want a full TUT (time under tension) ROM, which is mostly obtained from the Pec Deck and cables (crossovers, etc). And not settle for only a partial ROM muscle tension from DB fly's. If your chest program was inclines flat BP and Peck Deck's (or maybe cable flys), why throw in unneeded sets of partial DB fly's?

I'm sure, by actually watching Arnold train (in the old time days) someone could really vouch for the partial DB flys' (along with presses) being his bread and butter. Or does someone believe everything they may read about Arnold and the way he  trained? And pass that on as the truth? Good luck.

Worm-like, vindictive & petty "JPM" still having trouble with simple concepts, hence this week's equivalent of verbal diarrhea in lieu of common sense. He knows more than Schwarzenegger i guess LOL 30 years later he hasn't yet figured out that Arnold was doing flys in the fashion described, in Pumping Iron...

[bmacsys]

IMO bmacsys needs a Bowflex and more balls than he's ever had till now, in order to rid himself of these hideous 13" "guns" LOL WTF is this clown doing on a bodybuilding site, let alone training board? hahahahahahah

Yup, at least I used weights instead of toys to build those 13" pythons!

[william]

I hit every thing twice a week for a year and a half i resently switched to once a week but going balls to the wall every time. I have got better size and strength gains with once a week, but thats just me. everyone reacts different.

[pumpster]

I hit every thing twice a week for a year and a half i resently switched to once a week but going balls to the wall every time. I have got better size and strength gains with once a week, but thats just me. everyone reacts different.

At some point I think you should also try balls to wall twice a week, see what happens...