Bodybuilders from the past who could beat Mr Olympia Jay Cutler

[natural al]

it depends on the judgeing criteria, I don't think it's "right" at the olympia for some reason.  I dont' know where it went so bad but if you judge a show like they did at the 06 olympia nobody is gonna beat Jay.  I've said it a million times "it's not Jay's fault he looked like he did when he won the olympia" the judges dictated what he had to look like to win.  He basically did what they told him to do.  Personally I think the 01 version of Jay is awsome and if he stepped onstage looking just like that I'd think he could win an Olympia.  the judges don't see things that way and it's a shame. 

I honestly thing if you took the top 6 guys from last year, threw them in a time machine and had them step onstage at the 91 olympia they wouldn't do well at all.  Waist's are too big, not enough seperation etc.  That's pretty damn sad when a "sport" has digressed that much.

[Thin Lizzy]

Assuming that the guys from the past could have access to today's juice:

Steve Reeves
Sergio
Serge Nubret
Arnold
Mike Mentzer
Robbie Robinson
Bob Paris
Matt Mendenhall
Haney
Dorian
Flex
Ronnie

[suckmymuscle]

I think that Jay at 274lbs would beat all of them except for the 1999 version of Coleman.

  Dorian at the 1997 Olympia was 270 lbs with a much harder condition than Jay. His back was more separated than Cutler's and his midsection was vastly superior, evident by his separated abs and serratus. Yates was at his worst, and yet he would soundly defeat the 2006 Olympia Cutler in muscularity.

  Now, the 1995 Dorian would defeat Cutler both in muscularity&symmetry. It wouldn't even be close. Dorian would rape him in the asshole and leave him for dead. What do you have to say about this, Royalty?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Royalty]

  Dorian at the 1997 Olympia was 270 lbs with a much harder condition than Jay. His back was more separated than Cutler's and his midsection was vastly superior, evident by his separated abs and serratus. Yates was at his worst, and yet he would soundly defeat the 2006 Olympia Cutler in muscularity.

  Now, the 1995 Dorian would defeat Cutler both in muscularity&symmetry. It wouldn't even be close. Dorian would rape him in the asshole and leave him for dead. What do you have to say about this, Royalty?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I disagree....Yates was getting beaten on several of the mandatories at the 1995 Olympia by Nasser. I have this show on tape.

The 2006 version of Cutler would crush the 1995 Nasser on all poses (except for the front double bicep)

Jay is actually bigger than Nasser was too.

[kiwiol]

  Dorian at the 1997 Olympia was 270 lbs with a much harder condition than Jay. His back was more separated than Cutler's and his midsection was vastly superior, evident by his separated abs and serratus. Yates was at his worst, and yet he would soundly defeat the 2006 Olympia Cutler in muscularity.

  Now, the 1995 Dorian would defeat Cutler both in muscularity&symmetry. It wouldn't even be close. Dorian would rape him in the asshole and leave him for dead. What do you have to say about this, Royalty?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Hahahaha exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apart from the front double biceps, Dorian would blow Jay out of the water with ever other pose

[dragonheart]

did someone say cormier ?

chris is murdering jay in those shots.  How he won that year is beyond me.

[dragonheart]

cormier
wheeler
coleman
el sonbaty
levrone
ray

all would take jay in 2006 form easy if you ask me.  2001 I dont know, jay looked damn good that year.

[suckmymuscle]

I disagree....Yates was getting beaten on several of the mandatories at the 1995 Olympia by Nasser. I have this show on tape.

  Nope. Dorian won that contest with straight-firsts scores from all judges in all rounds. This means that he won both the muscularity&symmetry rounds with perfect scores. It wasn't even close. Not even Arnold at the 1974 Olympia dominated as badly as Dorian did in 1995. As the FLEX coverage of that contest announced:

 "Yates blows 'em away!"

You're one of the most knowledgeable members of this board and I respect your opinion, but you have just talked out of your ass on this one. Nasser was never a threat for Dorian. Ever. He won the front relaxed round in virtue of his wider clavicles and smaller waist, but lost all mandatories, including the front ones.

  When they turned to the sides, Dorian's immense muscle thickness, the likes of which is only challenged by Coleman in his 2003 version, destroyed Nasser. All the years of doing super-heavy presses and rows to failure gave Dorian a thickness that made Nasser look like and amateur in comparison. Not to mention that Yates made Nasser look soft.

The 2006 version of Cutler would crush the 1995 Nasser on all poses (except for the front double bicep)

  On the back mandatories, absolutely. In overral symmetry and on all other mandatories, Nasser is at least as good as Jay.

Jay is actually bigger than Nasser was too.

  See, your entire argument for why Jay would defeat Dorian focuses on size. You ignore symmetry&proportions, as well as conditioning. Dorian was infinitely superior to Cutler on all those things: his muscles were separated, dry and super-hard. I watched the 2006 Olympia on pay-per-view, and I can tell you that Cutler is the softest-looking Mr.Olympia ever. His muscles are bigger than that of the 1995 Dorian, but they lack separations and are as soft as marschmellow. His midsection is the worst ever seen on a Mr.Olympia. Dorian's 260 lbs package destroys Cutler's 275 lbs one very easily if you take quality as well as quantity into consideration.

  Now, you wanted size, so I offered you a version of Dorian that could go head to head against the 2006 Cutler for size, with the added bonus that Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite at 270 lbs, whereas Cutler looks like Dorian or Ronnie in off-season mode. I mean, if we're going to make this all about size and ignore everything else, then the 1997 Dorian was as big as Cutler with superior conditioning. Sure, his symmetry&proportions sucked, but Cutler in his 2006 version has the worst symmetry&proportions of any Sandow winner ever. Bottom line: Dorian carries that weight with more quality than Cutler, and thus wins. Game over.

  I am actually appalled that you would say that Dorian at his best would lose to Cutler - of all people! The only bodybuilder of the last 20 years who's on Dorian's league is Ronnie, and both Dorian and Ronnie at their bests shit all over Cutler. Please...it isn't even close. If you want, I can post Dorian pics of him at the 1997 Olympia where he's 270 lbs looking like stone. Bottom line: he has Cutler's size at the 2006 Olympia, but with infinitely superior hardness and separations.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Buttsuck]

 Nope. Dorian won that contest with straight-firsts scores from all judges in all rounds. This means that he won both the muscularity&symmetry rounds with perect scores. It wasn't even close. Not even Arnold at the 1974 Olympia dominated as badly as Dorian did in 1995. As the FLEX coverage of that contest anounced:

 "Yates blows 'em away!"

You're one of the most knowledgeable members of this board and I respect your opinion, but you have just talked out of your ass on this one. Nasser was never a threat for Dorian. Ever. He won the ront relaxed round in virtue o his wider clavicles and smaller waist, but lost all mandatories, including the front ones.

  When they turned to the sides, Dorian's immense muscle thickness, the likes of which is only challeged by Coleman in his 2003 version, destroyed Nasser. All the years of doing super-heavy presses and rows to failure gave Dorian a thickness that made Nasser look like and amateur in comparison. Not to mention that Yates made Nasser look soft.

  On the back mnadatories, absolutely. In overral symmetry and on all other mandatories, Nasser is at least as good as Jay.

  See, your entire argument for why Jay would defeat Dorian focuses on size. You ignore symmetry&proportions, as well as conditioning. Dorian was ininitely superior to Cutler on all those things: his muscles were separated, dry and super-hard. I watched the 2006 Olympia on pay-per-view, and I can tell you that Cutler is the softest-lookig Mr.Olympia ever. His muscles are bigger than that of the 1995 Dorian, but they lack separations and are as soft as marschmellow. His midsection is the worst ever seen on a Mr.Olympia. Dorian's 260 lbs package destroys Cutler's 275 lbs one very easily if yopu take quality as well as quantity into cosideration.

  Now, you wanted size, so I offered you a version of Dorian that could go head to head against the 2006 Cutler or size, with the added bonus that Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite at 270 lbs, whereas Cutler looks like Dorian or Ronnie in off-season mode. I mean, if we're going to make this all about size and ignore everything else, then the 1997 Dorian was as big as Cutler with superior conditioning. Sure, his symmetry%proportions sucked, but Cutler in his 2006 version has the worst symmetry&proportions o any Sandow winner ever. Bottom line: Dorian carries that weight with more quality than Cutler, and thus wins. Game over.

  I am actually appalled that you would say that Dorian at his best would lose to Cutler - of all people! The only bodybuilder of the last 20 years who's on Dorian's league is Ronnie, and both Dorian and Ronnie at their bests shit all over Cutler. Please...it isn't even close. I you want, I can post Dorian pics of him at the 1997 Olympia where he's 270 lbs looking like stone. Bottom line: Cutler's size at the 2006 Olympia, but with infinitely superior hardness and separations.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

MELTDOWN!!!

[suckmymuscle]

MELTDOWN!!!

  Why, newbie? And by the way, who cares what a newbie thinks?

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[MikeThaMachine]

Cormier for sure, he should have beaten Cutler on numerous ocassions such as the 2004 ASC. Cormier is what BBing is all about.

[suckmymuscle]

Hahahaha exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Apart from the front double biceps, Dorian would blow Jay out of the water with ever other pose

  Basically, any Mr.Olympia could defeat Cutler. I would give the win over him even to Larry Scott, solely on the basis of superior biceps, symmetry and aesthetics alone. Among all Sandow winners, Jason Cutler has: the worst symmetry, structure and conditioning ever.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Dballn247]

In their best shape, I'd Say Yates,Coleman, and Levrone.  Wheeler was sharp, but just didn't carry the size to win.  Too light to fight too thin to win.  I feel that is why he never dethroned Dorian. 

I don't see Jay losing his title on stage, unless he blows it.  The IFBB has been waiting for Jay as he is very marketable.  Initially Coleman was marketable as he was a police officer, however his limited vocabulary destroyed any attempt to display or convey an intelligent point.

Everyone is so quick to endorse the newguys.  We have so great new up and coming BB's.  However I dont think that Freeman or Martinez can beat Jay on the same stage.   

[phyxsius]

Jay destroyed Cormier

[Royalty]

 Nope. Dorian won that contest with straight-firsts scores from all judges in all rounds. This means that he won both the muscularity&symmetry rounds with perfect scores. It wasn't even close. Not even Arnold at the 1974 Olympia dominated as badly as Dorian did in 1995. As the FLEX coverage of that contest announced:

 "Yates blows 'em away!"

You're one of the most knowledgeable members of this board and I respect your opinion, but you have just talked out of your ass on this one. Nasser was never a threat for Dorian. Ever. He won the front relaxed round in virtue of his wider clavicles and smaller waist, but lost all mandatories, including the front ones.

  When they turned to the sides, Dorian's immense muscle thickness, the likes of which is only challenged by Coleman in his 2003 version, destroyed Nasser. All the years of doing super-heavy presses and rows to failure gave Dorian a thickness that made Nasser look like and amateur in comparison. Not to mention that Yates made Nasser look soft.

  On the back mandatories, absolutely. In overral symmetry and on all other mandatories, Nasser is at least as good as Jay.

  See, your entire argument for why Jay would defeat Dorian focuses on size. You ignore symmetry&proportions, as well as conditioning. Dorian was infinitely superior to Cutler on all those things: his muscles were separated, dry and super-hard. I watched the 2006 Olympia on pay-per-view, and I can tell you that Cutler is the softest-looking Mr.Olympia ever. His muscles are bigger than that of the 1995 Dorian, but they lack separations and are as soft as marschmellow. His midsection is the worst ever seen on a Mr.Olympia. Dorian's 260 lbs package destroys Cutler's 275 lbs one very easily if you take quality as well as quantity into consideration.

  Now, you wanted size, so I offered you a version of Dorian that could go head to head against the 2006 Cutler for size, with the added bonus that Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite at 270 lbs, whereas Cutler looks like Dorian or Ronnie in off-season mode. I mean, if we're going to make this all about size and ignore everything else, then the 1997 Dorian was as big as Cutler with superior conditioning. Sure, his symmetry&proportions sucked, but Cutler in his 2006 version has the worst symmetry&proportions of any Sandow winner ever. Bottom line: Dorian carries that weight with more quality than Cutler, and thus wins. Game over.

  I am actually appalled that you would say that Dorian at his best would lose to Cutler - of all people! The only bodybuilder of the last 20 years who's on Dorian's league is Ronnie, and both Dorian and Ronnie at their bests shit all over Cutler. Please...it isn't even close. If you want, I can post Dorian pics of him at the 1997 Olympia where he's 270 lbs looking like stone. Bottom line: he has Cutler's size at the 2006 Olympia, but with infinitely superior hardness and separations.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

watching the 1995 Olympia, Nasser had a better front double bicep and I feel his side chest and ad/thigh were equal to, or better than Yates.

The side tricep was close. Slight Edge to Yates.

Dorian took the rear lat spread easily and rear double bicep easily (that won him the show)

Nasser was actually close to Yates on the front lat spread though.


Dorian easliy had a better posing routine.

[suckmymuscle]

watching the 1995 Olympia, Nasser had a better front double bicep and I feel his side chest and ad/thigh were equal to, or better than Yates.

The side tricep was close. Slight Edge to Yates.

Dorian took the rear lat spread easily and rear double bicep easily (that won him the show)

Nasser was actually close to Yates on the front lat spread though.


Dorian easliy had a better posing routine.

  Those are all your opinions; I'm telling you what the judges actually decided at that contest: that Dorian was so far above the field that he won all mandatories as well as the symmetry and posing rounds. Period. You may not like it, but this is how the I.F.B.B judging body ruled.

  I agree with you about Nasser having a better front double biceps than Dorian - you can't win that mandatory with a torn biceps. I disagree with you about the abs-and-thighs. At best, it was a tie, with Nasser having the best quads - both size and cuts -, and Dorian having the better abs/serratus. As for the side chest...please...Dorian's pectoral thickess was greater than Nasser's, and his calves and vastus lateralis complemented the pose better than Nasser's. Dorian's conditioning was also on a whole other level than Nasser's.

  Now, your main argument for why Cutler would defeat Dorian, his small advantage in size, is nonsensical, because Dorian's muscles were harder and more separated than Cutler's. And as I pointed out, the 1997 version of Dorian would out-muscle Cutler, since Dorian was only 5 lbs lighter than Cutler, and still had a look of stone to him, while Jay looks off-season. Compare both their backs, and you'll see that Dorian's is just as wide as Cutler's, but thicker, harder and more separated. Game over. Too entirely different levels of bodybuilder, with Dorian being in the higher category.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[tu_holmes]

Lee Labrada and Rich Gaspiari. Probably Serge and Sergio as well.

[Andre Nickatina]

JP Fux.

fux sux

[Andre Nickatina]

i cant post this pic enough. CUTLER was just rock hard here.

[kiwiol]

fux sux

Fux never got everything together properly even for 1 show, like Edgar Fletcher. The closest he came was in the 1997 Mr Olympia. But there's no denying that that if he'd gotten his gut under control, didn't have the accident and gotten someone to help him with his dieting and training, he'd have been Mr Olympia at least once. His muscularity, size, shape and density were nothing short of mindblowing.

[kiwiol]

Fux could have been way better than even fellow mass monsters Marcus Ruhl and Nasser El Sonbaty

[kiwiol]

A few more pics of one of my favorite mass monsters

[rccs]

Was Fux able to completely recovery from his squat nasty injury?

[kiwiol]

Was Fux able to completely recovery from his squat nasty injury?

Unfortunately not He went from the pic below to the one attached further below

[rccs]

Before anything, I'd like to say that I have all the respect in the world for Jay, who's a class act and whose work ethics, humbleness, demeanour and even physique are all very undervalued and unappreciated. In his own way, Jay's raised the Mr Olympia title to another level. He will never be as impressive physically as Ronnie was at his best, but that's not taking anything away from his persistence, focus and discipline.

That being said, I think that the following bodybuilders from the past, in their best shape, would have beaten Jay in his 2006 Mr Olympia form:

Ronnie Coleman,
Dorian Yates,
Flex Wheeler,
Kevin Levrone,
Markus Ruhl,
Chris Cormier,
Aaron Baker,
Mike Francois,
Lee Haney
and possibly Shawn Ray.

What do you guys think?

I think that Wheeler, altough almost having a perfect simmetry, could never win a Sandow, his oponents were a level above, especially in what mass density is concerned. I think that wheeler could have been a very strong competitor in the mid 80's. But no way he could defeat Jay. The same goes to Cormier...