Author Topic: ICE CREAMS and calorie is a calorie and Haha Apenis - all three threads merged.  (Read 84170 times)

pumpher

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2007, 11:41:23 PM »
@The True Adonis: Not all science is "good science."

Scientists publish articles because they are paid to and are pressured by the Universities they work for.

Many of the articles you have posted, are pure crap are pure crap. You can fool many here, but if you actually read the article (NOT just the abstract) you will find that their either:

1) Their methodology is flawed (e.g. they measure nitrogen retetion, but use the industry standard 10% fecal excretion instead of actually measuring it in the shit)

2) Improper (or lack of) proper controls

3) Lack of randomization of characteristics; sometimes they don't even mention inclusion/exclusion criteria

4) Lack of statistical significance or power

5) And, most commonly in nutritional & exercise physiology "papers" the sample size is too small

Because of these and other critical failings, many of these type of papers when properly critiqued: CANNOT be used to generalize findings to certain groups (say, bodybuilders, or 35 year old 75kg white males). Some are properly done, but you really have to READ the article, not just post the abstract...

Alex23

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2007, 11:45:31 PM »
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/cabi/pns/1999/00000058/00000002/art00027

Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet
Author: Millward D.J.*

Source: Proceedings of the Nutrition Society, Volume 58, Number 2, 1999, pp. 403-413(11)

Publisher: CABI Publishing

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Abstract:

For protein, progress is slow in defining quantifiable indicators of adequacy other than balance and growth. As far as current requirements are concerned, only in the case of infants and children is there any case for revision, and this change is to lower values. Such intakes would appear to be safe when consumed as milk formula. In pregnancy, notwithstanding the concern that deficiency may influence programming of disease in later life, there is little evidence of any increased need, and some evidence that increased intakes would pose a risk. For the elderly there is no evidence of an increased requirement or of benefit from increased intakes, except possibly for bone health. For adults, while we now know much more about metabolic adaptation to varying intakes, there would appear to be no case for a change in current recommendations. As far as risks and benefits of high intakes are concerned, there is now only a weak case for risk for renal function. For bone health the established views of risk of high protein intakes are not supported by newly emerging data, with benefit indicated in the elderly. There is also circumstantial evidence for benefit on blood pressure and stroke mortality. With athletes there is little evidence of benefit of increased intakes in terms of performance, with older literature suggesting an adverse influence. Thus, given that a safe upper limit is currently defined as twice the reference nutrient intake, and that for individuals with high energy requirements this value (1·5 g/kg per d) is easily exceeded, there is a case for revising the definition of a safe upper limit.




Please elaborate.

Alex23

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2007, 11:48:51 PM »
@The True Adonis: Not all science is "good science."

Scientists publish articles because they are paid to and are pressured by the Universities they work for.

Many of the articles you have posted, are pure crap are pure crap. You can fool many here, but if you actually read the article (NOT just the abstract) you will find that their either:

1) Their methodology is flawed (e.g. they measure nitrogen retetion, but use the industry standard 10% fecal excretion instead of actually measuring it in the shit)

2) Improper (or lack of) proper controls

3) Lack of randomization of characteristics; sometimes they don't even mention inclusion/exclusion criteria

4) Lack of statistical significance or power

5) And, most commonly in nutritional & exercise physiology "papers" the sample size is too small

Because of these and other critical failings, many of these type of papers when properly critiqued: CANNOT be used to generalize findings to certain groups (say, bodybuilders, or 35 year old 75kg white males). Some are properly done, but you really have to READ the article, not just post the abstract...



Nice work pumpher. Dont' worry he's not fooling anybody with that shit.

Great physiques talk for themselves and his ain't saying a word...

Thanks for all the support brothers. There's allways a critical but logical vibe on getbig, that's why it's the best BB board 8)

Ozzy

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2007, 12:07:15 AM »
Most educated people derive and support statements/opinions from prior independant research such as credible journal articles. Going through the university process will teach you this.


Sup Adam.

Hedgehog

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2007, 12:37:40 AM »
I never modified, I just figured that the majority already knew this.  I was wrong and that is sad.  People are more ignorant than I thought.

No. You've made different claims in the past.

Another man`s junk, is another man`s treasure.

hahhahah

There is no such thing as junk food.

A calorie is a calorie in all sense.

1 Calorie=1 Calorie of any substance.

When it comes to food, you should not overeat even when trying to gain muscle.

In any normal diet, you will be adequately fueled nutrient wise to build muscle or lose fat.

You would have to try your HARDEST to not meet nutritional needs.  Its not feasible.

You also posted pics of your past diet.

-Hedge
As empty as paradise

Alex23

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2007, 12:39:50 AM »
No. You've made different claims in the past.

You also posted pics of your past diet.

-Hedge

Hedgehog, following this post,  I have a man crush on you.

Count Grishnackh

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2007, 01:09:06 AM »
You can't fuck around with what you did or didn't say with Hedge, he pulls shit out of nowhere and crucifies people.

wolfgang187

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2007, 01:11:11 AM »
You can't fuck around with what you did or didn't say with Hedge, he pulls shit out of nowhere and crucifies people.


SHUT THE F%CK UP AND GO LIFT!

Count Grishnackh

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #83 on: March 16, 2007, 01:13:38 AM »

SHUT THE F%CK UP AND GO LIFT!

hahahahah ok "wolfgang"    ::)

Saxon

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2007, 05:05:08 AM »
You need to meet the basic Nutrition Requirements set out by the RDA which is easy to do.

Then you can eat all the Flour and Sugar you want, provided you don`t exceed a certain caloric limit.

Can you explain this then...


The Enigma

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #85 on: March 16, 2007, 05:13:25 AM »
No, I don't agree, Adonis, do realize I've been doing this shit for along time and I do it for a living, and if my athletes don't perform correctly it's my ass? It's my job that the agents that come to me with their athletes depend on me for them to perform at the highest possible level and more than training itself, their eating program comes first.....dude, your the one that has no clue, and for you to even think about challenging me is rediculous in itself!


As a Board Certified Physician who works w/ MANY current World Champion athletes to improve performance, I couldn't imagine even thinking about "A calorie is a calorie" cr*p that TA pushes. To improve performance, I concentrate on increasing an athletes anaerobic/lactate threshold, as well as improving their Phosphate and O2 energy systems.

In conjunction w/ the above stated, I implement a strict eating program to insure the calories consumed are NOT EMPTY calories. Additionally, a supplement program is designed to help the athlete deal w/ the day to day recovery, energy levels, electrolyte replacement etc.

My program EXCLUDES all of the "Adonis Principles" (A total joke)  

I suggest you ignore TA.......the boy is totally clueless, and is just looking to get "a rise" out of the G.B. members. He's nothing but a non-degreed wannabe.

Hope this helps.

SteelePegasus

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2007, 05:48:54 AM »
Most educated people derive and support statements/opinions from prior independant research such as credible journal articles. Going through the university process will teach you this.


going through the universityprocess also gives you the foundation to explore and analyze ideas put forth by others. Also it teaches you respect for the ideas and processes that came before you..there is word for it if you don't...Plagiarism

anyone that went through at least 1 year of college wouldn't called "taking in less calories than you expend to lose weight" the Adonis principles, They would get laughed at

...conventional usage of the the Diet impliess that already.

Adonis, what college(s) have you attended and what were/are your major again?  lol, he won't answer..guess why?
Here comes the money shot

nycbull

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2007, 07:12:35 AM »
I like Adonis because he values science, challenges ingnorance and infuriates the religiously blind on this board.

However, Adonis is also known for quoting rat studies as well. The only thing science will find in a rat cage is a rat shit. The money wasted on rat studies is incalculable.

And the sooner they abandon this inferior and fraudulent form of study the faster science will make discoveries that will benefit humans.

pumpher

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2007, 07:13:33 AM »

As a Board Certified Physician who works w/ MANY current World Champion athletes to improve performance, I couldn't imagine even thinking about "A calorie is a calorie" cr*p that TA pushes. To improve performance, I concentrate on increasing an athletes anaerobic/lactate threshold, as well as improving their Phosphate and O2 energy systems.

In conjunction w/ the above stated, I implement a strict eating program to insure the calories consumed are NOT EMPTY calories. Additionally, a supplement program is designed to help the athlete deal w/ the day to day recovery, energy levels, electrolyte replacement etc.

My program EXCLUDES all of the "Adonis Principles" (A total joke)  

I suggest you ignore TA.......the boy is totally clueless, and is just looking to get "a rise" out of the G.B. members. He's nothing but a non-degreed wannabe.

Hope this helps.

You are quite correct. But The True Adonis has purposely mislead everyone in his wording.

From a pure energy/thermogenic standpoint, a calorie is indeed a calorie. It is just a unit of energy.

However, he has changed his tune. He used to believe this from a nutritional standpoint, as Saxon's post shows he thought a 100% diet was sufficient. He used believe macronutrient ratios were irrelevant (If you read his earlier threads)

He has now added that a minimum level of "RDA" approved nutrition is required, and  "macronutrient is not a macronutrient," suggesting that he understands how the body processes different macronutrients with respect to absorbtion, bioavailability, and which how the macro is processed once across enterocytes is much more complex.

Macronutrients are usually in a homeostatic equilibrium, but this equilibrium can coaxed to favor a different biochemical pathway, and ultimately a different fate, by a different hormonal environments. Timing of food, the amount of food per serving, different macro ratios all have an effect on endogenous hormonal release (the most important in this discussion being insulin).

SteelePegasus

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #89 on: March 16, 2007, 07:20:08 AM »
I like Adonis because he values science, challenges ingnorance and infuriates the religiously blind on this board.

However, Adonis is also known for quoting rat studies as well. The only thing science will find in a rat cage is a rat shit. The money wasted on rat studies is incalculable.

And the sooner they abandon this inferior and fraudulent form of study the faster science will make discoveries that will benefit humans.


yes, he confuses those without a highschool education. Most of us with college educations laugh at him...umm...if he values science so much I take it that he went to college to study it. Can you tell us what college and what field he studied in?

he professes to be an expert of the human body so I take it that he has done college level research under some PHD professor. Or has written papers to be critiqued by the science community.

and no, spending all day on google isn't the same


Adam, prove me wrong..where did you perform your studies..what institution of higher learning?

he won't answer, you know why
Here comes the money shot

natural al

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2007, 07:23:16 AM »
yes, he confuses those without a highschool education. Most of us with college educations laugh at him...umm...if he values science so much I take it that he went to college to study it. Can you tell us what college and what field he studied in?

he professes to be an expert of the human body so I take it that he has done college level research under some PHD professor. Or has written papers to be critiqued by the science community.

and no, spending all day on google isn't the same


Adam, prove me wrong..where did you perform your studies..what institution of higher learning?

he won't answer, you know why

TA claims whateva will make him look best at that moment.  Wether it's writing articles for magazines that he can't name and wrote under some assumed name to anything else he claims on here.

dude is deranged and that's the bottom line......
nasser=piece of shit

Buttsuck

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2007, 07:34:22 AM »
BMR at 6.5 cal per lb of bodymass says I require about 1450 cal at rest plus 450 per workout. So at about 1700 I'm defficient and should get ripped soon. Calories being calories and proteins, supplements being all a scam, I decided to get my 1700 cals on Cap n' Crunch and Cocopuffs, both will only bring me 4g of protein so I should be fine.

3 weeks later I'm wasting like there's no tomorow, my insulin is all fucked up and glucose to glucagon ratio is off the roof.

Where did I go wrong with my great application of those so called "Principles"?

Breaking out of that madness, I remembered something from biochemistry called PTOR (protein turn over rate). That scientifically proven rule says that my LBM x 1.818 is what I need to prevent from going catabolic. so that's about 310g of protein.


I come to the conclusion that the fucking idiots who think that "calories are calories" are misleading the goodhearted getbiggers.

Discuss  ;D


Alex, do you hyperventilate after you work out if you don't get your insuline spike and protien shake? Hahahahahaha. I bet you start getting bitchy if you haven't had a meal every 2 hours on the dot. "I HAVE TO KEEP MYSELF IN A POSITIVE NITROGEN BALANCE OMG!!!!!" ahahahah what a joke.

G o a t b o y

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2007, 07:51:27 AM »
Perhaps you missed my question, Adam:





What university awarded you this degree, and in what year?


 ;D
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BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2007, 07:54:55 AM »
I'm waiting for you motherfuckers to realize that Adam gave me, squadfather, bast and powerrod his password and we just fuck with you guys all day and night
$

Buttsuck

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #94 on: March 16, 2007, 07:55:51 AM »
I'm waiting for you motherfuckers to realize that Adam gave me, squadfather, bast and powerrod his password and we just fuck with you guys all day and night
Nonsense... i talk to adam on aim while he makes these posts. Monster attempt to discredit truth.

BroadStreetBruiser

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #95 on: March 16, 2007, 07:57:13 AM »
Nonsense... i talk to adam on aim while he makes these posts. Monster attempt to discredit truth.


You don't think I talk to him as well? I've been talking to him on AIM for over 3 years. It's too easy hahahahahahahaaahahahaha ha
$

valhalla

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #96 on: March 16, 2007, 08:08:13 AM »
Who the hell who eat an entire diet of Big macs,ice cream,candy etc etc ?? ???
Im not talking about calories or macronutrients, im talking about taste,smell and quality of foods!
What ever happend to making your meals from beautyful meat,fresh veggies,extra virgin olive oil..fresh un-processed foods! Where is the joy of cooking up a REAL meal gone ?
Only acne faced teenagers would call a sloppy Big Mac and an ice cream for a meal.

The Enigma

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #97 on: March 16, 2007, 08:22:09 AM »
You are quite correct. But The True Adonis has purposely mislead everyone in his wording.

From a pure energy/thermogenic standpoint, a calorie is indeed a calorie. It is just a unit of energy.

However, he has changed his tune. He used to believe this from a nutritional standpoint, as Saxon's post shows he thought a 100% diet was sufficient. He used believe macronutrient ratios were irrelevant (If you read his earlier threads)

He has now added that a minimum level of "RDA" approved nutrition is required, and  "macronutrient is not a macronutrient," suggesting that he understands how the body processes different macronutrients with respect to absorbtion, bioavailability, and which how the macro is processed once across enterocytes is much more complex.

Macronutrients are usually in a homeostatic equilibrium, but this equilibrium can coaxed to favor a different biochemical pathway, and ultimately a different fate, by a different hormonal environments. Timing of food, the amount of food per serving, different macro ratios all have an effect on endogenous hormonal release (the most important in this discussion being insulin).

One must understand that Adonis is NOT a professional in the healthcare field. His numerous posts are NOT to inform GB members on correct training or nutritional advice. He's a NOBODY who needs CONSTANT attention to serve is ego. One can only hope that members would look in another direction for serious health advice other than the GB board.

Intelligence and knowledge is derived from years of study coupled w/ "real world" application. TA has NONE of these qualities. Googling and posting is not considered being "informed" or "knowledgeable".

BTW.....I agree with your above stated post 100%.


The Heckler

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #98 on: March 16, 2007, 09:02:33 AM »
.

The Heckler

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Re: "Calories are calories" (oh brother) where did I go wrong?
« Reply #99 on: March 16, 2007, 09:07:21 AM »
Hahahahahahahaha another brutal ownage by the dynamo known as Alex23 8)

ok alex ::)