GERMAN JUDGE RULES KORAN ALLOWS WIFE ABUSE *UPDATE*

[tu_holmes]

Yes, it is the reverse of your point. Read the Wiki article.

I have... I see it my way... no harm in disagreeing view points.

[Cavalier22]

Christianity does not promote violence.

[Deedee]

Right, you see it's easier to de-attached Christianity from these acts due to the circumstances and the fact that none of these issues were prescribed by Christianity.

The Spanish Inquisition was to benefit the Spanish Empire building phases, allowing it to remain competitive against Britain. Please also note the ideology here was Catholicism. Is Catholicism == Christianity? No, refute it if you believe otherwise - i'm interested to see your responce.

Interesting methods of killing and torturing aren't prescribed by the bible. I don't even think the koran prescribes individual torturing and killing methods beyond beheading and chopping off hands and fingers for certain criminal acts or against non-believers.

Salem witch hunts is an isolated and complex case where social behaviour and group thinking is more the cause, certainly not prescribe by Christianity.

Research the "Pogroms": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

Please do go on with your stance, but this time, link it directly to what Christianity prescribes as I have done countlessly with islam.

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
                    -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

There are plenty of references in the Christian bible that exhorts violence against those that do not follow its precepts. The good book is basically a manual for behavior and all of its precepts can be interpreted in different ways, dependant on the tolerance of the society or culture. What I mentioned in my post was indicative of the acts "commited in the name of Christianity" by a less than evolved society.  We just happened to move it along a little faster, while the Muslim nation in many ways, is stuck in centuries old interpretations of their manual.

[Camel Jockey]

You should all read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. Christianity and Islam aren't all that different, yet they are in the savages that follow. Which explains why christianity is about several hundred years ahead of islam.

[Cavalier22]

All of Jesus's teachings promote nonviolence.  The old testament is a peace of crap.

[Nordic Superman]

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
                    -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5

There are plenty of references in the Christian bible that exhorts violence against those that do not follow its precepts. The good book is basically a manual for behavior and all of its precepts can be interpreted in different ways, dependant on the tolerance of the society or culture. What I mentioned in my post was indicative of the acts "commited in the name of Christianity" by a less than evolved society.  We just happened to move it along a little faster, while the Muslim nation in many ways, is stuck in centuries old interpretations of their manual.

Old testiment = Jewish doctorine.

Also, why doesn't these theories transgress into the primitive Christian populations in the middle east? How come, if Christianity is as bad, that Christians don't do evils in the name of Christ in the lesser developed part of the world?

Have these people also been able to progress mutually exlusively from that of Western Christians somehow?

[gtbro1]

From a muslim perspective try to refute ANYTHING I have said.

   I am not doubting that what you said is in the KORAN....I am saying the KORAN isn't the "infallible word of GOD." The koran,just like the bible,was written by people.

[Deedee]

Old testiment = Jewish doctorine.

Also, why doesn't these theories transgress into the primitive Christian populations in the middle east? How come, if Christianity is as bad, that Christians don't do evils in the name of Christ in the lesser developed part of the world?

Have these people also been able to progress mutually exlusively from that of Western Christians somehow?

All of Jesus's teachings promote nonviolence.  The old testament is a peace of crap.

Good to know that the old testament is a peace [sic] of crap!  I guess we can tell the creationists to bugger off then, and forget about those ten little rules God handed Moses... alert everyone that we can now fornicate with our neighbors, covet their wives. In fact the old testament is utlized and consulted by Christians, and most certainly definitely was utilized throughout history. It basically serves as the foundation for the new testament.

If you believe that Christianity is a pacifist religion you are dead wrong.  It isn't.  When Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" he was not admonishing people to passively meet violence with non-violence.  He was telling the people to leave the avenging of wrongs in the hands of their governments. I think even Beach will back me up on this.  Btw... didn't George Bush say that God speaks to him, that he is a "messanger for God"?  (And totally without judgement here either way, just stating a fact...) Haven't you noticed that we aren't shipping kittens and gift baskets over to the middle east 

I don't know why you have this obsession with making your point a two-fer, although I can understand your frustration at having your country turned upside down by a backward culture. I think I would completely freak if I had to live among as many burkas and niqabs as you do... that being said, why can't you just say "muslin fundamentalism sucks," without simultaneously screaming at the top of your lungs that Christianity on the other hand is as perfect as angels riding a moonbeam?  Our European ancestors commited disgusting, atrocious acts in the name of Christianity because they didn't know any better, whether you like to see that or not. However, we have evolved in the last couple of hundred years to become the enlightened culture that we are.  If you don't believe it, then I suppose you'll have to concede that since so much murder was commited in the name of Christ over centuries, it certainly isn't a very effective pacificist religion. 

[Cavalier22]

Of course atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity in the past.  I think we just differ on some particulars-how long ago, how bad, and whether or not those perpetrating the violent, cruel acts were really motivated by the teachings of Jesus Christ or by a lust for power where religion was invoked to act as superficial justification.  For example, the intertwined power structure of the Church and Royal Families made any slight or disobedience to the Church a perceived threat to the status quo-which resulted in the barbarism of the Inquisition.

I think my main two points are this: 

If one examines and takes to heart the teachings of Jesus Christ, the main prophet/god of the Christian faith, he or she would be very peaceful and compassionate towards all life. 

If one examines and takes to heart the teachings and life of Mohamed, the main prophet of the Muslim religion, he or she would be inclined ,to and justified in, committing all forms of barbaric violence and brutality towards fellow human beings. 

Those last two points are, in my eyes, indisputable.

[ToxicAvenger]

If one examines and takes to heart the teachings and life of Mohamed, the main prophet of the Muslim religion, he or she would be inclined ,to and justified in, committing all forms of barbaric violence and brutality towards fellow human beings. 

REALLY?

one of the stories i grew up with ws mohd used to walk a certain path every friday for friday prayers and out of hatred for islam a hindu woman would throw her trah on him as he passed below..

one time she failed to do so ..soo being curious he checked up on her..and finding her sick..stayed with her and nursed her back to health..



as i said before mate..if you MUST hate muslims to justify your pro war attitude to console your heart of " we really r doing good" well..so be it..its a free country..

[ToxicAvenger]

I don't know why you have this obsession with making your point a two-fer, although I can understand your frustration at having your country turned upside down by a backward culture. I think I would completely freak if I had to live among as many burkas and niqabs as you do... that being said, why can't you just say "muslin fundamentalism sucks," without simultaneously screaming at the top of your lungs that Christianity on the other hand is as perfect as angels riding a moonbeam?

articulate when angry...its a rarity..


 

[Dos Equis]

Good to know that the old testament is a peace [sic] of crap!  I guess we can tell the creationists to bugger off then, and forget about those ten little rules God handed Moses... alert everyone that we can now fornicate with our neighbors, covet their wives. In fact the old testament is utlized and consulted by Christians, and most certainly definitely was utilized throughout history. It basically serves as the foundation for the new testament.

If you believe that Christianity is a pacifist religion you are dead wrong.  It isn't.  When Jesus said to "turn the other cheek" he was not admonishing people to passively meet violence with non-violence.  He was telling the people to leave the avenging of wrongs in the hands of their governments. I think even Beach will back me up on this.  Btw... didn't George Bush say that God speaks to him, that he is a "messanger for God"?  (And totally without judgement here either way, just stating a fact...) Haven't you noticed that we aren't shipping kittens and gift baskets over to the middle east 

I don't know why you have this obsession with making your point a two-fer, although I can understand your frustration at having your country turned upside down by a backward culture. I think I would completely freak if I had to live among as many burkas and niqabs as you do... that being said, why can't you just say "muslin fundamentalism sucks," without simultaneously screaming at the top of your lungs that Christianity on the other hand is as perfect as angels riding a moonbeam?  Our European ancestors commited disgusting, atrocious acts in the name of Christianity because they didn't know any better, whether you like to see that or not. However, we have evolved in the last couple of hundred years to become the enlightened culture that we are.  If you don't believe it, then I suppose you'll have to concede that since so much murder was commited in the name of Christ over centuries, it certainly isn't a very effective pacificist religion. 

I agree.  You cannot discount the Old Testament.  Some extremely violent God-sanctioned killings are discussed in the Old Testament.  And like you said, the OT contains the creation story and God's law.  The OT also predicts the birth of Jesus.  There are numerous instances where the New Testament quotes the OT. 

But there is a marked change in the NT when it comes to violence.  No mass killings.  Not much discussion of violence.   

I also agree that Jesus wasn't a pacifist.  Turn the other cheek doesn't mean you cannot defend yourself, or take proactive steps to protect yourself.  Nor does it mean you don't punish criminals. 

       

[gtbro1]

alert everyone that we can now fornicate with our neighbors, covet their wives.

YES!!!   

[Nordic Superman]

REALLY?

one of the stories i grew up with ws mohd used to walk a certain path every friday for friday prayers and out of hatred for islam a hindu woman would throw her trah on him as he passed below..

one time she failed to do so ..soo being curious he checked up on her..and finding her sick..stayed with her and nursed her back to health..

as i said before mate..if you MUST hate muslims to justify your pro war attitude to console your heart of " we really r doing good" well..so be it..its a free country..

What about muhammad himself beheading hundreds of men from a tribe, simply by not submitting to muhammad?

What about removing Jews from the arab peninsula?

Molesting children is also a nice way to gain prophethood.

Funny how you've hijacked this thread Deedee after not being able to refute my statesments. Please note that you should open your own Pro-Islam thread and Anti-Christian threads in the future and not hijack mine.

[gtbro1]

     The koran is just a book. It is NEVER ok to abuse anyone

[Nordic Superman]

     The koran is just a book. It is NEVER ok to abuse anyone

Well here's the dangerous part:
Every muslim MUST accept it to be of 100% truth.

Muhammad is the greatest example anyone could ever have to lead their lives.

This means muslims can marry and molest 6 year old children and murder.

[Deedee]

What about muhammad himself beheading hundreds of men from a tribe, simply by not submitting to muhammad?

What about removing Jews from the arab peninsula?

Molesting children is also a nice way to gain prophethood.

Funny how you've hijacked this thread Deedee after not being able to refute my statesments. Please note that you should open your own Pro-Islam thread and Anti-Christian threads in the future and not hijack mine.

I'm not pro-Islam at all... but you're awfully obsessive about your views on Christianity. You can't stand to admit even the slightest discussion into the picture. However, I think I did refute at least some of your statements. Also, I thought this was Cav's thread, not yours, and if he prefers me not to post in his threads I'm pretty sure he'd feel comfortable enough to send me a PM saying so.

[Cavalier22]

Does anyone here actively belong to any organized religion? Just curious

[Camel Jockey]

REALLY?

one of the stories i grew up with ws mohd used to walk a certain path every friday for friday prayers and out of hatred for islam a hindu woman would throw her trah on him as he passed below..

one time she failed to do so ..soo being curious he checked up on her..and finding her sick..stayed with her and nursed her back to health..

I'm sure there were hindus in the arabian peninsula in the 7th century AD. hahaha  

Are you just plain fucking stupid or did your gas station attendant daddy brainwash you?

[Deedee]

Of course atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity in the past.  I think we just differ on some particulars-how long ago, how bad, and whether or not those perpetrating the violent, cruel acts were really motivated by the teachings of Jesus Christ or by a lust for power where religion was invoked to act as superficial justification.  For example, the intertwined power structure of the Church and Royal Families made any slight or disobedience to the Church a perceived threat to the status quo-which resulted in the barbarism of the Inquisition.

I think my main two points are this: 

If one examines and takes to heart the teachings of Jesus Christ, the main prophet/god of the Christian faith, he or she would be very peaceful and compassionate towards all life. 

If one examines and takes to heart the teachings and life of Mohamed, the main prophet of the Muslim religion, he or she would be inclined ,to and justified in, committing all forms of barbaric violence and brutality towards fellow human beings. 

Those last two points are, in my eyes, indisputable.

I would agree with you...  I just don't separate our violent past, and the OT from our experience as Christians. I see things more in line with the way Beach does... but I completely agree that anyone who truly follows the teachings of Christ would be leading a life of tolerance, empathy, and inner peace.

Haven't read enough of the Koran to make any intelligent comment, however, the idea of fundamentalist ideologies of this nature spreading west and taking over scares the crap out of me.

YES!!!

Lol!

[Nordic Superman]

I'm not pro-Islam at all... but you're awfully obsessive about your views on Christianity. You can't stand to admit even the slightest discussion into the picture. However, I think I did refute at least some of your statements. Also, I thought this was Cav's thread, not yours, and if he prefers me not to post in his threads I'm pretty sure he'd feel comfortable enough to send me a PM saying so.

True I was wrong to say it was "mine". However you clearly show compasion for islamic traits, either consciously and you won't admit it or sub consciously. Otherwise why do you bring up the topic of Christianity in this thread when the two are mutually exclusive on the threads topic?

I'm not obsessive about views on Christianity.

[tu_holmes]

I wonder if Acid throwing is allowed now in Germany?

[Cavalier22]

Judge Datz-Winter’s decision caused a furor in Germany, and she was quickly removed from the case. That may be one small sign that Europe is inching toward throwing off its multiculturalist blinders and recovering the spirit of General Sir Charles James Napier, the British Commander-in-Chief in India from 1849 to 1851. It is said that a Hindu delegation protested against the British prohibition of sati, the practice of burning a widow to death on her husband’s funeral pyre, by telling Napier that it was part of their cultural custom. Napier famously responded:

 (I love this quote-Cav)

You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

 

It is long past time for authorities in Europe and the United States to begin to emulate Napier in their dealings with increasingly restive and demanding Islamic communities. Instead of issuing “religious diversity handbooks” and making special accommodations for Islamic practices, Western officials need to reassert the validity of our own laws and mores, and – at least as long as Europe’s suicidal immigration policies remain in place and neither Europe nor America treats immigration as a national security issue – remind newcomers that they are not welcome to bring with them customs and practices that are at variance with our own. This is the standard to which visitors and immigrants to Islamic countries are expected to adhere. The West should demand no less.

-Robert Spencer

[gtbro1]

http://www.filecabi.net/video/mwifebeatings.html

[ToxicAvenger]

What about muhammad himself beheading hundreds of men from a tribe, simply by not submitting to muhammad?

and ya read this in the koran orrr on some site??

What about removing Jews from the arab peninsula?

i doubt it since my parents consider jews and christians as people of the book..

Molesting children is also a nice way to gain prophethood.

o good lord..for once post a link where it says ayesha ws 16..o wait..then you said she ws 15..n o wait..now its 12 is it?

Funny how you've hijacked this thread Deedee after not being able to refute my statesments. Please note that you should open your own Pro-Islam thread and Anti-Christian threads in the future and not hijack mine.

hijack??..dont cry..she soundly spanked you..