Buying Oil under market value.

[Dos Equis]

Wrong answer. 

Like it or not, that's how Iraq was under Hussein.  And there's not a damn thing we could have done about it.

President Bush wanted to invade Iraq.  For what reason, I don't know.

Congress has never declared war on Iraq.

Bush sought Congressional authority to invade Iraq b/c he conflated Iraq with the attacks of 9/11.

So far, so good.

But Bush couldn't attack Iraq b/c, under the holdings of the Nuremberg Trials, generally you can only use force in self-defense, defense of an ally, or imminent attack.

Iraq did not attack the US.  Iraq attacked no one.

That is why Bush asked the UN to permit the US to enforce resolutions dating back to the first Gulf War.  Remember the deplorable presentation by Powell w/ Tenet flanking him?

The current resolution governing Iraq's WMD inspections was Res. 1441 which clearly stated that if WMDs are discovered during inspections, the UN Security Council will convene to authorize a use of force.

The WMD inspectors were turning up nothing.  Bush saw his only legal course for attacking Iraq go up in smoke.  So he ordered the attack before the inspectors could finish their jobs.

That order was in violation of Res. 1441 and thus illegal.

Like some mafia hood, the US rolled into Iraq, capped the owner, and set up shop most advantageous to itself.

Or I could be wrong.  But I'm not.

I figured you wouldn't like that answer.    But it's the truth.  

You didn't mention the two Congressional resolutions supporting the war after it started.  They were either unanimous or nearly unanimous from what I recall.    

[militarymuscle69]

Production sharing agreement.

Agreement? hmmmm Odd, I'll have to look up the term agreement, but I thought that was when two parties were agreeing?

[Decker]

Biggest dog on the porch....if you don't like it I hear Canada is looking for more residents

Are we a country of laws or not?

Are you asking me to move out of the US b/c I have shown you a very ugly and unconstitutional aspect of our current diseased executive administration?

Or don't you like me?

[OzmO]

Agreement? hmmmm Odd, I'll have to look up the term agreement, but I thought that was when two parties were agreeing?

While you are at it, you should look up and see if the Iraq people agreed to those terms and ratified them or were they sold down the river by Awaiia or who ever.

[Decker]

I figured you wouldn't like that answer.    But it's the truth.  

You didn't mention the two Congressional resolutions supporting the war after it started.  They were either unanimous or nearly unanimous from what I recall.    

I didn't mention them because they are irrelevant to whether Bush followed the terms of Res. 1441 for legal use of force in disarming Iraq.

[Decker]

Agreement? hmmmm Odd, I'll have to look up the term agreement, but I thought that was when two parties were agreeing?

You are correct. 
Sometimes language is deceptive.  Especially with propaganda.  Do the facts on the ground match up with the terminology designating such; not in this case.

[militarymuscle69]

You are correct. 
Sometimes language is deceptive.  Especially with propaganda.  Do the facts on the ground match up with the terminology designating such; not in this case.

So NO ONE from Iraq signed these agreements?

[Decker]

So NO ONE from Iraq signed these agreements?

You are playing with semantics.

[militarymuscle69]

You are playing with semantics.

Bull shit I'm playing with semantics....in all your research I'm sure you can show who from Iraq signed this agreement. I mean someone had to.

[Decker]

Bull shit I'm playing with semantics....in all your research I'm sure you can show who from Iraq signed this agreement. I mean someone had to.

We know the players in the game but PSAs are generally locked under confidentiality provsions.  That means it's a secret as to who is actually signing.

[militarymuscle69]

We know the players in the game but PSAs are generally locked under confidentiality provsions.  That means it's a secret as to who is actually signing.

But someone from the Iraq government probably put pen to paper right?

[Decker]

But someone from the Iraq government probably put pen to paper right?

As a matter of law created by US consul Bremer, the Iraqis MUST privatize their infrastructure including oil fields. 

I don't see any discretion there do you?

Say Luca Brasi held a gun to a bandleader's head to compel him to sign a contract releasing Johnny Fontaine from his binding contract.

Is that contract fairly bargained for?  Is it how business is generally conducted in the legitimate business world?

[militarymuscle69]

As a matter of law created by US consul Bremer, the Iraqis MUST privatize their infrastructure including oil fields. 

I don't see any discretion there do you?

Say Luca Brasi held a gun to a bandleader's head to compel him to sign a contract releasing Johnny Fontaine from his binding contract.

Is that contract fairly bargained for?  Is it how business is generally conducted in the legitimate business world?

Oh see I didn't understand...Bremmer walked in to the room, held a gun to the head of the Iraqi and made him sign it. That is completely different. I mean there is no chance that the Iraqis were willing to sign a PSA out of graditude for saving thier ass....thanks for clearing that up

[Decker]

Oh see I didn't understand...Bremmer walked in to the room, held a gun to the head of the Iraqi and made him sign it. That is completely different. I mean there is no chance that the Iraqis were willing to sign a PSA out of graditude for saving thier ass....thanks for clearing that up

I'm sorry, you're right.  Let me restate that.
The directives compelling the Iraqi gov. to privatize its national resources were automatically codified into the Iraqi constitution.

The Iraqis are legally bound to privatize Iraqi oil.  There's no discretion in the matter for them.

[militarymuscle69]

I'm sorry, you're right.  Let me restate that.
The directives compelling the Iraqi gov. to privatize its national resources were automatically codified into the Iraqi constitution.

The Iraqis are legally bound to privatize Iraqi oil.  There's no discretion in the matter for them.

So it is your opinion that Paul Bremmer, sat in a room surrounded by Americans and drafted the constitution. The Iraqis had no input in it at all. And then when the proposed constitution was brought before the elected government of Iraq...they blindly accepted.

[ieffinhatecardio]

So it is your opinion that Paul Bremmer, sat in a room surrounded by Americans and drafted the constitution. The Iraqis had no input in it at all. And then when the proposed constitution was brought before the elected government of Iraq...they blindly accepted.

I think you're point is more accurate. They did it out of gratitude. Signing over your natural resources, the thing that makes your country viable shows a great deal of gratitude. They obviously appreciate all that was done for them and they wanted to give something back.

[Decker]

So it is your opinion that Paul Bremmer, sat in a room surrounded by Americans and drafted the constitution. The Iraqis had no input in it at all. And then when the proposed constitution was brought before the elected government of Iraq...they blindly accepted.

Not the constitution.  The first thing the americans did was to rewrite Iraqi property laws to mandate privatization.  Those directives from Bremer became part of the Iraqi constitution as a matter of law. 

And the Iraqis worked from that premise in competing their constitution.

[OzmO]

Fellas,  this is a fucked deal for the Iraqis,  it's not about saying thank you.

[Decker]

I think you're point is more accurate. They did it out of gratitude. Signing over your natural resources, the thing that makes your country viable shows a great deal of gratitude. They obviously appreciate all that was done for them and they wanted to give something back.

I would not engage in such speculation.  Do you think the 60,000 dead civilians would be grateful for the illegal invasion and plunder of their country?

[ieffinhatecardio]

I would not engage in such speculation.  Do you think the 60,000 dead civilians would be grateful for the illegal invasion and plunder of their country?

My post was pure sarcasm. Clearly I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Of course I don't think they signed away the only thing that makes their entire country viable because of gratitude. Without Oil Iraq is nothing but sand.

[OzmO]

My post was pure sarcasm. Clearly I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Of course I don't think they signed away the only thing that makes their entire country viable because of gratitude. Without Oil Iraq is nothing but sand.

Don't forget a population of people who love this "democracy of getting ass fucked out of their resources" and the 2000 people who hate freedom.

[Decker]

My post was pure sarcasm. Clearly I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Of course I don't think they signed away the only thing that makes their entire country viable because of gratitude. Without Oil Iraq is nothing but sand.

I'm sorry but I'm new here.   I now see that it's time for me to go home.  That was a pretty good post too.  Sorry I undercut it.

[militarymuscle69]

My post was pure sarcasm. Clearly I didn't lay it on thick enough.

Of course I don't think they signed away the only thing that makes their entire country viable because of gratitude. Without Oil Iraq is nothing but sand.

right, and the PSAs don't give any oil rights to the iraqis...fag

[ieffinhatecardio]

right, and the PSAs don't give any oil rights to the iraqis...fag

That's "fucking fag" to you Mister.

[militarymuscle69]

That's "fucking fag" to you Mister.

That would imply you get were getting action...we all know that isn't happening