Buying Oil under market value.

[240 is Back]

It wasn't just the US/UK.  There is a multinational force in Iraq. 

Have you seen the list of actual number of men from each nation?  hilarious!

We helped set up rules for a country that had none

So the country was a lawless mess under saddam?

I thought it was ruled with an iron fist - with MANY rules.

Beach Bum, please back up your claim that "We helped set up rules for a country that had none"

[OzmO]

I personally like the RULE that say we aren't subject to any RULES!


"Order No. 17 grants foreign contractors, including private security firms, full immunity from Iraq's laws. Even if they, say, kill someone or cause an environmental disaster, the injured party cannot turn to the Iraqi legal system. Rather, the charges must be brought to U.S. courts.

[240 is Back]

I personally like the RULE that say we aren't subject to any RULES!


"Order No. 17 grants foreign contractors, including private security firms, full immunity from Iraq's laws. Even if they, say, kill someone or cause an environmental disaster, the injured party cannot turn to the Iraqi legal system. Rather, the charges must be brought to U.S. courts.

Yeah, some of the iraqis have complained that hardcore A-hole private contractors have been able to cap Iraqi nobodies during heated arguments, and all they have to do is file a report and they get to keep right on working. 

[militarymuscle69]

I personally like the RULE that say we aren't subject to any RULES!


"Order No. 17 grants foreign contractors, including private security firms, full immunity from Iraq's laws. Even if they, say, kill someone or cause an environmental disaster, the injured party cannot turn to the Iraqi legal system. Rather, the charges must be brought to U.S. courts.

sounds similiar to a SOFA agreement

[OzmO]

sounds similiar to a SOFA agreement

What's a SOFA agreement?   I guess i could google it, but you probably have a short answer you could give.

[Dos Equis]

Have you seen the list of actual number of men from each nation?  hilarious!

So the country was a lawless mess under saddam?

I thought it was ruled with an iron fist - with MANY rules.

Beach Bum, please back up your claim that "We helped set up rules for a country that had none"

 

[militarymuscle69]

What's a SOFA agreement?   I guess i could google it, but you probably have a short answer you could give.

Status of Forces Agreement. The military tries to develop them in each country we enter. Like in Kuwait we have a SOFA that says if a military member is downtoen and gets in a fight, the military will take care of it. When I went to Guatemala we didn't have one so we were subject to Guatemala's laws

[Dos Equis]

Status of Forces Agreement. The military tries to develop them in each country we enter. Like in Kuwait we have a SOFA that says if a military member is downtoen and gets in a fight, the military will take care of it. When I went to Guatemala we didn't have one so we were subject to Guatemala's laws

SOFA.  Haven't heard that one in a while.  Good analogy. 

The Army has an acronym for everything.  My favorite was ADONSA days.        

[militarymuscle69]

SOFA.  Haven't heard that one in a while.  Good analogy. 

The Army has an acronym for everything.  My favorite was ADONSA days.        

Have to say I haven't heard that one!

[Dos Equis]

Have to say I haven't heard that one!

ADONSA = A Day Of No Scheduled Activities.     Maybe it was just my division.   

[militarymuscle69]

ADONSA = A Day Of No Scheduled Activities.     Maybe it was just my division.   

That is definately an Army term! lol Not to knock the Army but the Air Force doesn't have days like that

[Dos Equis]

That is definately an Army term! lol Not to knock the Army but the Air Force doesn't have days like that

Sucks for you!     Our CG would schedule them after a training exercise and after every holiday, giving us an extra day off.  I loved it.  But we worked hard.   

[OzmO]

Status of Forces Agreement. The military tries to develop them in each country we enter. Like in Kuwait we have a SOFA that says if a military member is downtoen and gets in a fight, the military will take care of it. When I went to Guatemala we didn't have one so we were subject to Guatemala's laws

The problem is contractors and private security firms aren't going to police themselves.  Especially when money is involved.   Basically, we just made these people not accountable for their actions and gave them the legal ability to abuse anything they want to make a buck.

The Military is different of course, because they are accountable to the Government and operate with a high level of decency overall with very few exceptions. 

[militarymuscle69]

Sucks for you!     Our CG would schedule them after a training exercise and after every holiday, giving us an extra day off.  I loved it.  But we worked hard.   

Being stationed at an Army post I get the benefit of 4 day weekends on holidays, however to make up for the 8 missed training hours we work an extra 2 hours a day the 4 days of the week we do work! So we will be out in the training area at 0600, the Army joins us at 0700 and leave at 1700 and we press on until 1800! But I wouldn't trade AF for Army if they paid me!!

[militarymuscle69]

The problem is contractors and private security firms aren't going to police themselves.  Especially when money is involved.   Basically, we just made these people not accountable for their actions and gave them the legal ability to abuse anything they want to make a buck.

The Military is different of course, because they are accountable to the Government and operate with a high level of decency overall with very few exceptions. 

If it works like the military SOFA, then the Iraqi police will do the policing. They will make arrests if someone is doing wrong, but then they will turn them over to the US. But I'm not sure

[Decker]

Decker if they're not inviting foreign investors then who gets the PSAs? 

Before the invasion, the entire country, including its oil and infrastructure, was controlled by one man.  The Iraqi people didn't control anything before the war.  It was one man who pillaged and plundered . . . and kept about a billion dollars under his mattress. 

It wasn't just the US/UK.  There is a multinational force in Iraq. 

We helped set up rules for a country that had none and made it easier for that country to attract investors to rebuild a country that was destroyed by a brutal dictator. 

PSA is synonymous with privatization.  The US forced Iraq to privatize its infrastructure.

I must state it again: 

By what right does the US/UK have to dictate to Iraq how it should handle its own assets/infrastructure?

[Dos Equis]

PSA is synonymous with privatization.  The US forced Iraq to privatize its infrastructure.

I must state it again: 

By what right does the US/UK have to dictate to Iraq how it should handle its own assets/infrastructure?

The fact Iraq didn't have a government, didn't have rules, apparently didn't the manpower or expertise to do this themselves, had deeply divided factions, and needed foreign involvement--including foreign money--to rebuild their country. 

[Decker]

SOFA.  Haven't heard that one in a while.  Good analogy. 

The Army has an acronym for everything.  My favorite was ADONSA days.        

I don't think it's a good analogy at all.  Why should Iraq have to surrender the sovereignty of its own constitution to US demands?  Remember, the provisions that we are looking at were handed down by Bremer when he was in charge of Iraq and those provisions were automatically written into the Iraqi constitution.  No debate.  No Iraqi input.

It certainly looks like the US is stacking the capitalist/legal deck in its favor while necessarily diminishing Iraqi concerns.

[Decker]

The fact Iraq didn't have a government, didn't have rules, apparently didn't the manpower or expertise to do this themselves, had deeply divided factions, and needed foreign involvement--including foreign money--to rebuild their country. 

Why didn't Iraq have a government and why did Iraq have to rebuild?

[Dos Equis]

Being stationed at an Army post I get the benefit of 4 day weekends on holidays, however to make up for the 8 missed training hours we work an extra 2 hours a day the 4 days of the week we do work! So we will be out in the training area at 0600, the Army joins us at 0700 and leave at 1700 and we press on until 1800! But I wouldn't trade AF for Army if they paid me!!

PT at 0600.  I miss those days. . . .

[Dos Equis]

Why didn't Iraq have a government and why did Iraq have to rebuild?

Because a brutal and evil dictator controlled their country for years, horded/stole the country's resources, and lived in numerous palaces like a king (which he was), while various segments of his people lived like cavemen. 

[militarymuscle69]

PSA is synonymous with privatization.  The US forced Iraq to privatize its infrastructure.

I must state it again: 

By what right does the US/UK have to dictate to Iraq how it should handle its own assets/infrastructure?

what does the A in PSA stand for?

[Decker]

Because a brutal and evil dictator controlled their country for years, horded/stole the country's resources, and lived in numerous palaces like a king (which he was), while various segments of his people lived like cavemen. 

Wrong answer. 

Like it or not, that's how Iraq was under Hussein.  And there's not a damn thing we could have done about it.

President Bush wanted to invade Iraq.  For what reason, I don't know.

Congress has never declared war on Iraq.

Bush sought Congressional authority to invade Iraq b/c he conflated Iraq with the attacks of 9/11.

So far, so good.

But Bush couldn't attack Iraq b/c, under the holdings of the Nuremberg Trials, generally you can only use force in self-defense, defense of an ally, or imminent attack.

Iraq did not attack the US.  Iraq attacked no one.

That is why Bush asked the UN to permit the US to enforce resolutions dating back to the first Gulf War.  Remember the deplorable presentation by Powell w/ Tenet flanking him?

The current resolution governing Iraq's WMD inspections was Res. 1441 which clearly stated that if WMDs are discovered during inspections, the UN Security Council will convene to authorize a use of force.

The WMD inspectors were turning up nothing.  Bush saw his only legal course for attacking Iraq go up in smoke.  So he ordered the attack before the inspectors could finish their jobs.

That order was in violation of Res. 1441 and thus illegal.

Like some mafia hood, the US rolled into Iraq, capped the owner, and set up shop most advantageous to itself.

Or I could be wrong.  But I'm not.

[Decker]

what does the A in PSA stand for?

Production sharing agreement.

[militarymuscle69]

Wrong answer. 

Like it or not, that's how Iraq was under Hussein.  And there's not a damn thing we could have done about it.

President Bush wanted to invade Iraq.  For what reason, I don't know.

Congress has never declared war on Iraq.

Bush sought Congressional authority to invade Iraq b/c he conflated Iraq with the attacks of 9/11.

So far, so good.

But Bush couldn't attack Iraq b/c, under the holdings of the Nuremberg Trials, generally you can only use force in self-defense, defense of an ally, or imminent attack.

Iraq did not attack the US.  Iraq attacked no one.

That is why Bush asked the UN to permit the US to enforce resolutions dating back to the first Gulf War.  Remember the deplorable presentation by Powell w/ Tenet flanking him?

The current resolution governing Iraq's WMD inspections was Res. 1441 which clearly stated that if WMDs are discovered during inspections, the UN Security Council will convene to authorize a use of force.

The WMD inspectors were turning up nothing.  Bush saw his only legal course for attacking Iraq go up in smoke.  So he ordered the attack before the inspectors could finish their jobs.

That order was in violation of Res. 1441 and thus illegal.

Like some mafia hood, the US rolled into Iraq, capped the owner, and set up shop most advantageous to itself.

Or I could be wrong.  But I'm not.

Biggest dog on the porch....if you don't like it I hear Canada is looking for more residents