Author Topic: Putting Kobe in perspective  (Read 7101 times)

Dos Equis

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Putting Kobe in perspective
« on: March 26, 2007, 06:48:11 PM »
Couldn't have said it better myself.   :)

Putting Kobe in perspective
By Jemele Hill
Page 2

Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.

Not more successful.

Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.

Hasn't won more MVPs.

Hasn't won more titles.

But he's a better player.

Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.

Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.

At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.

Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.

Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.

Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.

In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.

Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.

The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.

Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.

Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

The NBA is tougher now.

Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.

The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.

Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.

Now that's a valuable player.

Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba

Tre

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 06:59:45 PM »

Kobe's a great basketball player.

But he is no Michael Jordan. 

The problem for Kobe's legacy is that he's playing in an era marked by really shitty basketball.

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 07:20:53 PM »
Like Hill said, Kobe can everything Jordan did, and more. 

And the Jordan era was hardly marked by great basketball.

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 09:21:15 PM »
Like Hill said, Kobe can everything Jordan did, and more. 

And the Jordan era was hardly marked by great basketball.

That's true to some extent. Jordan didn't win a title until Detroit was injury riddled and the Celtics & Lakers were over the hill. Don't get me started on the Bulls second 3peat as the league was probably worse than it is now. Comparing Kobe to Jordan though is a major, major stretch. He is closer to being this era's Bernard King or Dominque Wilkins than he is to being Jordan, Bird or Magic.

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Parker

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 09:29:55 PM »
Kobe's a great basketball player.

But he is no Michael Jordan. 

The problem for Kobe's legacy is that he's playing in an era marked by really shitty basketball.

Exactly, Kobe era is nothing shitty basketball, that only happens during the 4th quarter. If you take Kobe's 2007 Lakers versus 1997 Bulls, Or even Philly for that matter, Kobe would be schooled. At 29 years old.

pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 10:05:26 PM »
Exactly, Kobe era is nothing shitty basketball, that only happens during the 4th quarter. If you take Kobe's 2007 Lakers versus 1997 Bulls, Or even Philly for that matter, Kobe would be schooled. At 29 years old.

And yet Bum's still smitten!!  :-*

Haven't seen anything that suggests that "the kobester" is willing to play team Bball when given the choice.

90s were also diluted.

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 10:10:14 PM »
Exactly, Kobe era is nothing shitty basketball, that only happens during the 4th quarter. If you take Kobe's 2007 Lakers versus 1997 Bulls, Or even Philly for that matter, Kobe would be schooled. At 29 years old.

I wouldn't compare this pretty average Lakers team with a Chicago team that had two HOF players.  When Kobe played with a HOF player, he won three rings. 

Parker

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2007, 04:41:33 AM »
The Bulls had Pippen and Jordan, and a cast of supporting players. They never had a strong center, Cartright was nothing more than a human wall that opened lanes, and busted eye orbits (Hakeem's).
Every team that Shaq has been on the Point guard gets an added boost, but they were nothing special (a la Penny Hardaway). And It showed with he Lakers as well, when Kobe doesn't have Shaq, he folds, Kobe had to learn how to deal without Shaq.

 I agree that Kobe is a beast, but if you put Kobe on a mid 90's Miami, Chicago, Philly, or New York team, he would be just another player.

Tre

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2007, 07:39:51 AM »
Exactly, Kobe era is nothing shitty basketball, that only happens during the 4th quarter. If you take Kobe's 2007 Lakers versus 1997 Bulls, Or even Philly for that matter, Kobe would be schooled. At 29 years old.

I see it pretty much the same way.

Beach will question whether Kobe is to blame for his team's lack of heart, but as team captain, if he cannot inspire his men, then he has to absorb some of the blame for this team's failures on defense.

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2007, 08:34:42 AM »
I see it pretty much the same way.

Beach will question whether Kobe is to blame for his team's lack of heart, but as team captain, if he cannot inspire his men, then he has to absorb some of the blame for this team's failures on defense.

I will question his team's lack of talent.  Give Kobe another all star and he wins a ring, or three.  Jordan never won squat without Pippen.  Kobe needs to be surrounded with better talent.  He is doing everything, plus some, to help his team win.  He's not Superman.  But he's close . . . .

pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2007, 08:39:15 AM »
I will question his team's lack of talent.  Give Kobe another all star and he wins a ring, or three.  Jordan never won squat without Pippen.  Kobe needs to be surrounded with better talent.  He is doing everything, plus some, to help his team win.  He's not Superman.  But he's close . . . .

Too black & white, someone who selectively chooses facts. Turds like Kobe are at best part of but not the centerpiece to winning ball, as shown when they won. A repugnant personality and a preferred style of hogging the ball aren't part of a winning formula.

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2007, 08:42:31 AM »
Too black & white, someone who selectively chooses facts. Turds like Kobe are at best part of but not a centerpiece to winning ball, as shown when they won.

Says the man who doesn't watch him play.  Try actually watching the game so you can have a more informed opinion. 

pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2007, 08:44:42 AM »
Says the man who doesn't watch him play.  Try actually watching the game so you can have a more informed opinion. 

Wrong, i have and choose not to watch an unlikable character and unlikable coach.

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2007, 08:47:25 AM »
Wrong, i have and choose not to watch an unlikable character and unlikable coach.

Who cares why you don't watch.  The fact is you don't watch the game so you are really talking out of your rear end. 

And Phil is an unlikable coach?  The man with NINE rings?  Dude you must be a cricket fan or something . . . .   

Tre

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2007, 12:25:30 PM »
And Phil is an unlikable coach?  The man with NINE rings? 

With all due respect, I feel that you could've won at least 5-6 rings as head coach of the teams he's had...even if you were a blind man.   ;D

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2007, 02:40:53 PM »
With all due respect, I feel that you could've won at least 5-6 rings as head coach of the teams he's had...even if you were a blind man.   ;D

O Rly?  Actually, I kinda thought the same thing before he came to L.A.  But how do you explain the fact that he took the same team that didn't win squat the year before he arrived and proceeding to win three straight rings (in L.A.)? 

After watching him these past 6 years or so, I have a great deal of respect for him.  I think he's a great coach. 

ieffinhatecardio

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 02:53:40 PM »
Yeah, Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.


Bwahahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaa

Hold on a second, the laughter has almost died down.

Nope, here it comes again.

Bwaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaa

The idiot writer that wrote that article is looking for some attention, I doubt even she believes that nonsense.


pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 03:17:22 PM »
Who cares why you don't watch.  The fact is you don't watch the game so you are really talking out of your rear end. 

And Phil is an unlikable coach?  The man with NINE rings?  Dude you must be a cricket fan or something . . . .   

I have watched, and said so. Are you cognitively challenged?

You're apparently the only one who also doesn't see Phil for what he is.

pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 03:18:07 PM »


The idiot writer that wrote that article is looking for some attention, I doubt even she believes that nonsense.



It worked, for those on perennial kobe-watch who post new Kobe threads daily. :o

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 04:22:39 PM »
I have watched, and said so. Are you cognitively challenged?

You're apparently the only one who also doesn't see Phil for what he is.

Am I "cognitively challenged"?  Depends on who you talk to.   :)

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You obviously don't watch the game. 

And I'm the only person who "doesn't see Phil for what he is"?  Whatever that means.  I see him as a HOF coach and arguably the best coach in NBA history.   

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2007, 05:00:36 PM »
Am I "cognitively challenged"?  Depends on who you talk to.   :)

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.  You obviously don't watch the game. 

And I'm the only person who "doesn't see Phil for what he is"?  Whatever that means.  I see him as a HOF coach and arguably the best coach in NBA history.   

 ;)





Had to do it.....

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2007, 05:20:07 PM »
He's no Jordan. If Jordan was playing against Golden state and Toronto he'd score 50 a night too. The late 80's Jordan was a better scorer than Kobe, as he had to do it against the Celtics, Pistons, Knicks and other teams not named the Warriors or the Sonics.

Jordan = more rings, better marketed to every demographic and known all over the world as a great athlete. Kobe might not even be in top 5 to ever play, so how can he be better than numero uno MJ?


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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2007, 07:02:41 PM »


And I'm the only person who "doesn't see Phil for what he is"?  Whatever that means.  I see him as a HOF coach and arguably the best coach in NBA history.   

Calling Phil Jackson the greatest coach in NBA history is like calling a homeless person who inherits millions from their dead aunt " The greatest financial mind of all time ".

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pumpster

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2007, 07:26:50 PM »
He's no Jordan. If Jordan was playing against Golden state and Toronto he'd score 50 a night too. The late 80's Jordan was a better scorer than Kobe, as he had to do it against the Celtics, Pistons, Knicks and other teams not named the Warriors or the Sonics.

Jordan = more rings, better marketed to every demographic and known all over the world as a great athlete. Kobe might not even be in top 5 to ever play, so how can he be better than numero uno MJ?



Not to mention Wilt, most dominant EVA. Imagine his numbers today.

No wonder basketball's boring with this dilution, as Wilt said.

As far as other greats, what i remember with the dream team in '92 was that it was Magic, not Jordan, that made that team happen. Tells you something. ;D Kobe's not even the best-ever Laker. :-\

Dos Equis

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Re: Putting Kobe in perspective
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2007, 07:55:33 PM »
;)





Had to do it.....

LOL.   ;D  I knew you would at least mention Red.  Hey how many teams were in the league when he won all those titles?   :D

Without having given this much thought, I'd rank them:

1.  Phil
2.  Riley

Honorable mention:  Red, and everyone else. 

Okay . . . I'm an admitted Laker homer, but I like those two (Phil and Pat).