Good ol back day....

[Lugar]

I always deadlift first on back day......except I am in the cage with the pins set around ankle level....easier on the back and can pull withot worrying......then I just slighty tough the rack and explode up....no bounching.

On Fridays, I've been doing 5x6 aux day...deads from the floor (last week I did 235x6x5) no wraps, then cleans, bench and squat.......should I move the pins for todays tio nee level and do rack deads?

thats just 4 sets including a warm....do dbell row and str8 bar row too......

Finaly ?  _ If my goal for the day is say 295x4 as I've only gotten barely 3 the last 2 weeks.......I also do a 5x5, last week was 275x5 pre 295.  My question is, I know I cant get the 295 for 4 because I am taxed from the previous set.....what if, or would you reccomend, warming up, then going right to 295x4 if i can, then back down to 280 x 5.......rather miss the 5x5 then heavy 4 from 295 no?

[Overload]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=134353.0

Please stop asking the same shit over and over.

[pumpster]

As far as back work, the smarter thing IMO is to do deads last, retaining more energy while fresh at the beginning for upper back.

As far as increasing the reps, read some of the previous posts AND have some guts at the end of sets to get those last reps, using cheats, rest-pause, etc. DO IT

[Lugar]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=134353.0

Please stop asking the same shit over and over.

relax.......it was a different ? but forget it.........I am the only one who asks anything about training on this board...go back to the other gay threads........it's junk.

[jpm101]

Your better off doing DL's first in any back scheme. Want to have all the energy for this muscle mass builder. Putting in at the end of a program would defeat the purpose of doing DL's at all. Unless your going for general 15 or 20 high rep training. Might also want to set the pins about knee level and do a few sets from that position. Using much more weight than you are accustomed to doing, can set up the lifting motor units to handle more weight.

I don't see how you could set the pins at ankle level, if your using 45's. You standing on a raised platform, or what? Are you doing SLDL's or regular DL's? No offense, I'm not one to judge, but some times your post are hard to understand.

You have already set up a mental negative block in DL training by saying that you know you can't get 295 for 4 because of the previous set. Bad habit to get into. No disrespect, but 295lb should be fairly easy to overcome if your training is on the right track. As suggest above, try a couple heavy sets of Dl's at about knee lever. After that, try a couple sets at a pin level that allows about a 4 inch lift to a standing position. Should be using around a 100lbs above you best lift than from the floor. Rest a bit, and than try a few sets  of 295 from the floor just for fun.  Never go to failure on any set, with-in a rack or from the floor. Good Luck.

[Overload]

Your better off doing DL's first in any back scheme. Want to have all the energy for this muscle mass builder. Putting in at the end of a program would defeat the purpose of doing DL's at all. Unless your going for general 15 or 20 high rep training. Might also want to set the pins about knee level and do a few sets from that position. Using much more weight than you are accustomed to doing, can set up the lifting motor units to handle more weight.

Good post.

I agree 100%.

I get the best results from deads when i do them heavy and first in my routine.

[Lugar]

my trainer had me doing racks one week, floor deads the next........racks were last in the routine........floor were first........

[pumpster]

For maximum back development, work the larger upper back first. Period.

Deads are an exhausting exercise, and a nice way to wipe out the lower back before even getting to rows. That's why many bodybuilders who include deads do them last, to avoid being wiped out physically by deads and to maintain strength in the lower back strength that is required for rowing movements done first.

Deads aren't even essential for back work IMO, being one of the most dangerous and most exhausting exercises. Use medium to high reps when doing deads, or do hyper extensions instead.

[Overload]

For maximum back development, work the upper back first. Period.

Deads aren't even essential for back work, being one of the most dangerous and most exhausting exercises. Use medium to high reps or do hyper extensions instead.

Deadlifts work every muscle in your back, with proper form.

Any exercise is dangerous with bad form or too much weight. you should know this.

I suggest you study kinesiology.

Have a nice day.

[pumpster]

Deadlifts work every muscle in your back, with proper form.

Any exercise is dangerous with bad form or too much weight. you should know this.

I suggest you study kinesiology.

Have a nice day.

This is the stock answer, showing no imagination. Deads do *not* prioritize the emphasis on the upper back. Exactly why guys like Schwarzenegger would begin with upper back training, as i've suggested.

I suggest you refrain from silly suggestions & obnoxious personal stuff, and stick just to training opinions. Maybe Arnold was wrong too, according to you.

Here's Yates' program. Deadlifts LAST, with the option of substituting hypers.

DORIAN YATES' BACK BLAST

EXERCISE                      SETS  REPS

Curl-grip pulldowns           2 *   15
                                    1     8-10
Barbell rows                    1 *   12
                                    1     8
Seated cable rows           1 *   12
                                   1     8
Hyperextensions or deadlifts  1 *   12
                                   1     8

[Lugar]

                                       
DO ME A FAVOR AND PAN BACK THROUGH MY LOG, WOULD YOU SAY I GOT STRONGER FROM LAST WORKOUT?                                       

TUESDAY APRIL 2007                                         
      WARMUP      WARMUP      WARMUP      SET 1      SET 2      SET 3   
Long Cable Rows      100x15      120x10      140x10      160x8      160x8      170x6-8   
                                       
                                       
RACK DEADSDEADS       0x8        135x5       225x8      245x8       260x6           280x6 (rest pausie single)    
                                        
                                       
underhand       80x12        100x10        110x8        120x6        130x5        100x12    
                                          
                                       
Dbell row (high) bench      85x10      95x10      100x8      85x10               
                                       
                                    
Wide pulls       150++x12           170+x10        170++X10                            
                                       
pullovers        100X15      110X12      120X10                  

[pumpster]

Obviously upset because with Yates' back workout i've just destroyed the idea that deads-first is some kind of rule.

Obviously it is not for overload to arrogantly tell someone to "study kineseology" when so many great bodybuilders did quite the contrary to what his own preferences are AKA opinions only.

And cut out the canned answers & unproven theories that show no originality, ascribing Yates' development to drugs. LAME & UNTRUE

As GH15 said, one of the most knowledgeable bodybuilders on these boards, a Bowflex and some adjustable dumbbells can do a great job. Absolutely right. Another canned theory down in flames.

[The Squadfather]

i always do deadlifts either last or next to last and my strength has never suffered on them any more than if i had done them at the begininng, i've always believed that deads are one of those movements that you have to have some blood going through your body for, i always do rows, pulldowns and pullovers first, a very good method is to do a set of hypers and then wait a minute and perform your set of deadlifts it feels great psychologically to have some blood in your lower back before starting a set.

[The Squadfather]

Obviously upset because with Yates' back workout i've just destroyed the idea that deads-first is some kind of rule.

Obviously it is not for overload to arrogantly tell someone to "study kineseology" when so many great bodybuilders did quite the contrary to what his own preferences are AKA opinions only.

And cut out the canned answers & unproven theories that show no originality, ascribing Yates' development to drugs. LAME & UNTRUE

As GH15 said, one of the most knowledgeable bodybuilders on these boards, a Bowflex and some adjustable dumbbells can do a great job. Absolutely right. Another canned theory down in flames.

exactly, ANY FORM OF RESISTANCE TRAINING will build muscle, Bowflex, barbell, db's, gallons of milk, logs, barrels, cables, bodyweight, whatever.

[pumpster]

exactly, ANY FORM OF RESISTANCE TRAINING will build muscle, Bowflex, barbell, db's, gallons of milk, logs, barrels, cables, bodyweight, whatever.

WHY IS THIS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Answer: Bowflex isn't "macho" enough. Tough

[The Squadfather]

WHY IS THIS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Answer: Bowflex isn't "macho" enough. Tough

hahahaha, i'd love to see any of these jackasses criticizing it try to do a 400 pound Bowflex bench press.

[Lugar]

OK, now that back day is over....lol..........it's delts!!!  Smith machine?

[dontknowit]

I have to go with pumpster on this one. Deadlift last.

The lower back is a supporting muscle in various backexercises, if you train this muscle first it would affect other exercises.
You will encounter serious trouble with you lowerback if you're planning to BOR afterwards. But also a simple exercise like pull-ups will be more difficult cause you use your lowerback to control you lowerbody.

[jpm101]

The trouble with most people who do the DL, and their developing related back problems, is of proper form. The Dl is a full body unit exercise, not designed for the lower back (or any other section of the body) to take the brunt of the work load. The first cause is not taking a proper warm-up, in good form. The second cause is having to lean too far forward, and out of line with the lifting stress points (mechanics/leverage). Avoiding the knee's with the bar seems to be the main problem (Sumo style can lessen this affect....though too many guy's do not use that form). Taking a bar, set  around knee height, will lessen the undo tension placed on the lower back (using a power rack, heavy boxes, etc).

Dl'ing with a bar like a trap/shrug bar (hammer grip) puts the lifting stress more inline (center) with those body mechanics. Your lifting/holding the weight along side the body, not leaning forward, away from the body. BB Hack squats also put the body in a better position when lifting from the floor. The same principle applies here also, inline with the body. Even Dl'ing a heavy pair of DB's can be a better choice when DL'ing.

Any compound exercise (be it DL's, squats, cleans, push presses, etc) should be included first in any workout of serious intent. You reap the rewards in strength and power in the long run. If you do the exercise right, you will not need a whole lot more of any other exercise, with the DL as a first and prime movement. Maybe adding rows or chins, but not much more than that. Good Luck.

[metalruler]

Doin deadlifts last...is awesome, cos u can focus more on reps rather than weights and go for that squeeze.