I just crapped my pants...

[Wikidudeman]

One has to remember, that when looking what the 'Bible' says about one subject or another is that the Bible is not a single book written by a single author. It is a compilation of dozens of books written by dozens of authors who lived in very different times from each other. The tanach (1st 5 books of the bible) is what the jews generally follow and has all sorts of rules about how to live. Rules including not shaving ones sideburns, refraining from eating shrimp or swine etc.

The Gospels generally have less rules about how not to avoid hell and include...

Believe in Jesus (Acts 4:12)
Baptism (John 3:3-5)
Repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38)
Do good works (James 2:24, Revelations 20:12-13)
Have children (1 Timothy 2:15)

And lastly, Do nothing (Titus 3:4-7)


Various denominations place different emphasis on the various methods of 'salvation'. Catholics emphasize baptism and penance while protestants emphasize "grace" and Calvinists emphasize being "born again" by baptism or redemption.

[loco]

The Muslim religion is a bullshit one. Claiming Jesus was just a prophet. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega...the beginning and the end. There were no more prophets after Him. Not Mohamed not anyone.

jerseyhurricane,
be nice.  I admire you faith, but we must present the truth in love.   

1 Peter 3:15
"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

Ephesians 4:15
"Instead, speaking the truth in love"

[loco]

I do not believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God, or -that the "Virgin" Mary was actually a virgin at all.  Am I going to hell for that?  Brimstone and all.

According to christians you are

No, Camel  Jockey, not according to Christians.  But According to Jesus Christ Himself.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[loco]

The Bible claims that the only way to His Eternal Kingdom is through Christ. So yeah you are going to hell according to the bible. But let God be the judge of that.

_Morrison_,

Listen to  jerseyhurricane.  He is telling you the truth.

[loco]

what about original sin in christianity??

Original sin is a Roman Catholic Church thing.  It is not biblical.  Not all Christians believe in it.  We are responsible for our own sins.

Romans 5:12
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned"


Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

[Hedgehog]

Now that I have your attention, here's a thought.

This is for all you hardcore Christian believers out there: I consider myself a generally good person.  I don't f*ck people over, I don't do things out of malicious intent, and I try to be nice to people.  Here's the catch: I do not believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God, or -that the "Virgin" Mary was actually a virgin at all.  Am I going to hell for that?  Brimstone and all.

According to Christianity, yes.

Without a doubt.

The only sin that cannot be forgiven, is to not acknowledge God and Jesus as his Son, and the holy spirit, the Trinity.

-Hedge

[loco]

My Faith is my Faith and I stand by it.

jerseyhurricane,
Again, I admire your faith!

I'm sure that's true about buddists, Hindus, Jews and Muslims.  People give testimony to alien abductions, ghosts, the virgin Mary etc....

OzmO,
No, it is not true.  Only Christians claim to have been transformed by Jesus Christ.  Only Jesus changes people, only He changes lives.  He changed mine and jerseyhurricane's, and many others right in front of my eyes, no greater miracle than that in my opinion.

so a lifetime of testimonies don't mean much.

Oh, yes they do mean a whole lot.

Is that all you have that supports or proves Jesus is the Alpha and Omega beisdes a book that was obviously put together to reaffirm his divinity?

OzmO,
You and I have been over this and you have come up with no proof that the Bible "was obviously put together to reaffirm his divinity"

Is there anything else outside your strong personal faith that you can provide?

I can.  I have provided it time after time, but nobody will say anything else about it.  There is plenty of evidence in history, archeology and science in general that show the Bible is more than just a book.  No other religious book compares to the Bible.  The Bible says that Jesus is the only way, that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.  Based on the evidence that the Bible is more than just a book, I would be looking more into this if I were you,  instead of simply dismissing it like you guys do.  If you are right about the Bible, good for you!  But if you are wrong, you are eternally, dead wrong.

1.  Personally, when I decided to start reading the Bible on my own and I applied what I learned to my own life, my life improved tremendously.  My relationships, my health, my finances, my whole outlook in life and my attitude toward my troubles improved tremendously.  And I wasn't even a Christian then.  Once I became a Christian, things got even better.  I have also seen throughout my life many people have the same experience once they decided to read the Bible on their own and applied what they learned to their life.

2. Faith.  The Bible says that the Bible is the word of GOD and I believe it.

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" 2 Peter 1:21

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16

3.  Fulfilled Prophecy.  The Bible is the only religious book that contains fulfilled prophecy.  Some of it has already been fulfilled throughout history, even in our own generation.
http://www.100prophecies.org/

4. Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html

[jerseyhurricane]

jerseyhurricane,
be nice.  I admire you faith, but we must present the truth in love.   

 

You're right...I was wrong to judge. I am human...I am a sinner. I just hope through Jesus that I can be forgiven when the time comes.

Loco...you're a good person.

[Wikidudeman]

The Muslim religion is a bullshit one. Claiming Jesus was just a prophet. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega...the beginning and the end. There were no more prophets after Him. Not Mohamed not anyone.

I always find it ironic when one religious person criticizes another religion for it's tenants.

[_Morrison_]

According to Christianity, yes.

Without a doubt.

The only sin that cannot be forgiven, is to not acknowledge God and Jesus as his Son, and the holy spirit, the Trinity.

-Hedge

That is why that particular piece of Christianity is rubbish.

[_Morrison_]

I always find it ironic when one religious person criticizes another religion for it's tenants.

I find it amusing.

[_Morrison_]

_Morrison_,

Listen to  jerseyhurricane.  He is telling you the truth.

The truth is always debatable.  Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

[_Morrison_]

If you are right about the Bible, good for you!  But if you are wrong, you are eternally, dead wrong.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather go with whatever faith seems proven enough just as a backup plan in case the whole fire and brimstone thing is true?  Or are you saying that we should?

[loco]

You're right...I was wrong to judge. I am human...I am a sinner. I just hope through Jesus that I can be forgiven when the time comes.

Loco...you're a good person.

jerseyhurricane,
I'm no saint.  I would not be surprised if one day you found me here doing the same thing.  When you do, please do call me on it and remind me to be nice. 
 
God bless you, brother!

[loco]

So what you're saying is that you'd rather go with whatever faith seems proven enough just as a backup plan in case the whole fire and brimstone thing is true?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Or are you saying that we should?

That we should what?

All I'm saying is that you asked a question

I do not believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God, or -that the "Virgin" Mary was actually a virgin at all.  Am I going to hell for that?  Brimstone and all?

and you addressed the question to

for all you hardcore Christian believers

The NON-Christians here told you what you wanted to hear, that no, you are not going to hell for that.

The Christians here kindly and honestly answered your question with the truth, that Yes, you are going to hell for that.  But we also gave you a way out, believe in Jesus and you will be saved.

All I'm saying is rather than listen to the skeptics and dismiss Jesus Christ just like that, why not give it a chance and do some more investigating of your own?  Read the gospel of John, followed by Romans.  You are welcome to ask me questions about what you are reading.  Look into all the evidence out there that Jesus is unique, that the Bible is unique.  Don't just take my word for it, go look for yourself. Take a look at those links that I posted above.  In the process, you may end up believing in Jesus by faith, then you won't go to hell. 

Don't just take the skeptics word for it, that you are not going to hell.  It's your soul after all. 

[OzmO]

OzmO,
No, it is not true.  Only Christians claim to have been transformed by Jesus Christ.  Only Jesus changes people, only He changes lives.  He changed mine and jerseyhurricane's, and many others right in front of my eyes, no greater miracle than that in my opinion.

Oh, yes they do mean a whole lot.

OzmO,
You and I have been over this and you have come up with no proof that the Bible "was obviously put together to reaffirm his divinity"

I can.  I have provided it time after time, but nobody will say anything else about it.  There is plenty of evidence in history, archeology and science in general that show the Bible is more than just a book.  No other religious book compares to the Bible.  The Bible says that Jesus is the only way, that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.  Based on the evidence that the Bible is more than just a book, I would be looking more into this if I were you,  instead of simply dismissing it like you guys do.  If you are right about the Bible, good for you!  But if you are wrong, you are eternally, dead wrong.

Are you saying buddists, Hindus, muslims and Jews don't have spiritual experiences?  I'm sure you aren't.  Are all those experiences from the devil?  com'on loco.   That's why i say a lifetime of testimonies don;t mean much.  every religion has a spiritual base that's constantly renewed through the experiences of it's followers

And yes we have been through this many times, and every time you've only quoted the bible nothing more.  You can't use as proof of the books assertions passages in the book.  Like i said i have a book that says my cat is God.  Therefore it must be true.

The Bible has some historical record.  Just because you find the city of Sodom doesn't make everything in the Bible true and the word of God.

no other book compares to the bible?  In what way are we comparing it?  Objective or subjective?   

[loco]

Are you saying buddists, Hindus, muslims and Jews don't have spiritual experiences?  I'm sure you aren't.  Are all those experiences from the devil?  com'on loco.   That's why i say a lifetime of testimonies don;t mean much.  every religion has a spiritual base that's constantly renewed through the experiences of it's followers

No, sir, not talking about mere "spiritual experiences" or "a spiritual base that's constantly renewed through the experiences of it's followers".  I am talking about much more, something very specific that is a very important part of Christianity. 
 
2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
 
John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
 
Nobody can have faith in Jesus Christ and be the same person after that.  Jesus will change you as a person and He will change your life.  I am talking about a radical change, from one extreme to the other.  Jesus changed my life.  Jesus changed me forever. 
 
Jews?  Paul, Saul of Tarsus is one of millions of great examples.  He was a devout Jew, well educated, who persecuted Christians with zeal, then Jesus changed him.  He became a devout Christian, wrote most of the New Testament, spread Christianity all over the Roman Empire of his time.  For that he was persecuted, tortured and killed for his belief in Jesus.  Christianity started with Jews, and was spread by Jews.
 
I know former, devout Muslims who used to hate Christians and Jews.  They were radically changed by Jesus Christ.  Now they are Christians and they love Jews, and they are persecuted for leaving Islam.  They testify that there is no spiritual experience in Islam that can compare.
 
I know former, devout Buddhists from Cambodia, China and Vietnam who were changed by Jesus Christ.  They testify that there is no spiritual experience in Buddhism that can compare.
 
Most of my friends are from India, many are former Hindus...same story as above.
 
The list goes on and on.
 
Only in Christianity is this radical change expected, and it's something you can't fake.  People who think themselves Christians, yet have never experienced this change are mistaken and have not yet really put their faith in Jesus Christ. 
 
Only Christianity has a leader, Jesus, who claimed to be God.  Only Christianity has a leader whose bones where never found, because Jesus died and rose again. 

[loco]

And yes we have been through this many times, and every time you've only quoted the bible nothing more. 

Every time?  I have only quoted the bible and nothing more?  Come on, OzmO, why would you say something false like that about me?  Let's be honest and truthful here.  You know that I have done much more than only quote the bible?  Have you even read any of the links that I have posted before?  I have read all the links that you have posted for me and commented on them.
 
This evidence is much more than just quoting the Bible.  Please read the whole thing at your convenience and explain every single one of them if you can!
 
Fulfilled Prophecy.  The Bible is the only religious book that contains fulfilled prophecy.  Some of it has already been fulfilled throughout history, even in our own generation.
http://www.100prophecies.org/

Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html
 
Biblical Archaeology
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
 
Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence
 
Evidence that the Gospels were written before 70 AD and that they are accurate and reliable
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.php

The Bible has some historical record.  Just because you find the city of Sodom doesn't make everything in the Bible true and the word of God.

Wrong, the Bible has much more than just that.  Read all the links above.

no other book compares to the bible?  In what way are we comparing it?  Objective or subjective?   

That's right.  No other book can compare to the Bible.  Read above.

[loco]

I do not believe that Jesus Christ was the "son" of God, or -that the "Virgin" Mary was actually a virgin at all.  Am I going to hell for that?  Brimstone and all.

_Morrison_
Actually, the right answer to your question is this:

According to the Bible, yes, you are going to hell, but NOT because of that. 

You are going to hell because you are choosing to pay for all your own sins. 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

Even though you are a good person, you have sinned.  And your good deeds do not erase your bad deeds.  Your good works can't save you.

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.  not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

God does not want you to go to hell and that is why he sent his only Son Jesus to die for your sins, in your place.  If you have faith in Jesus and in what He did for you, then you will NOT go to hell.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

We deserve eternal death in hell for our sins, but instead God offers you the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
This is God's promise that if we call on the name of the Lord, we will be saved...not maybe...but will.

Here the Bible tells us how to call on the Lord:
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.  For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.  Romans 10:9-10

Whatever your sin, God will forgive and forget just as long as you repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.  I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."  1 John 1:9

[OzmO]

No, sir, not talking about mere "spiritual experiences" or "a spiritual base that's constantly renewed through the experiences of it's followers".  I am talking about much more, something very specific that is a very important part of Christianity. 
 
2 Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
 
John 3:3
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
 
Nobody can have faith in Jesus Christ and be the same person after that.  Jesus will change you as a person and He will change your life.  I am talking about a radical change, from one extreme to the other.  Jesus changed my life.  Jesus changed me forever. 
 
Jews?  Paul, Saul of Tarsus is one of millions of great examples.  He was a devout Jew, well educated, who persecuted Christians with zeal, then Jesus changed him.  He became a devout Christian, wrote most of the New Testament, spread Christianity all over the Roman Empire of his time.  For that he was persecuted, tortured and killed for his belief in Jesus.  Christianity started with Jews, and was spread by Jews.
 
I know former, devout Muslims who used to hate Christians and Jews.  They were radically changed by Jesus Christ.  Now they are Christians and they love Jews, and they are persecuted for leaving Islam.  They testify that there is no spiritual experience in Islam that can compare.
 
I know former, devout Buddhists from Cambodia, China and Vietnam who were changed by Jesus Christ.  They testify that there is no spiritual experience in Buddhism that can compare.
 
Most of my friends are from India, many are former Hindus...same story as above.
 
The list goes on and on.
 
Only in Christianity is this radical change expected, and it's something you can't fake.  People who think themselves Christians, yet have never experienced this change are mistaken and have not yet really put their faith in Jesus Christ. 
 
Only Christianity has a leader, Jesus, who claimed to be God.  Only Christianity has a leader whose bones where never found, because Jesus died and rose again. 

All due respect....  and you deserve it all......


Your experiences are but mere scores in a see of 6 billion other souls who of which many have had spiritual experiences that radically changed their lives.  Of course they are not like "Jesus" because they don't involve him. 

These spiritual changes are with God's help in both Christian and non-Christian religions.

[OzmO]

Every time?  I have only quoted the bible and nothing more?  Come on, OzmO, why would you say something false like that about me?  Let's be honest and truthful here.  You know that I have done much more than only quote the bible?  Have you even read any of the links that I have posted before?  I have read all the links that you have posted for me and commented on them.
 
This evidence is much more than just quoting the Bible.  Please read the whole thing at your convenience and explain every single one of them if you can!
 
Fulfilled Prophecy.  The Bible is the only religious book that contains fulfilled prophecy.  Some of it has already been fulfilled throughout history, even in our own generation.
http://www.100prophecies.org/

Checkable Biblical Accuracy
http://www.doesgodexist.org/Charts/CheckableBiblicalAccuracy.html
 
Biblical Archaeology
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
 
Extra-Biblical and Non-Christian evidence that Jesus Christ did exist
http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/5_5/noevidence
 
Evidence that the Gospels were written before 70 AD and that they are accurate and reliable
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.php

Wrong, the Bible has much more than just that.  Read all the links above.
That's right.  No other book can compare to the Bible.  Read above.

the question was can you substantiate your claims with evidence outside the bible.  I haven't took the time to read all those links, but based on the titles they all seems to involve the Bible.  I get to them soon.

Don't get me wrong.  I believe Jesus existed.  But where is evidence outside the bible that supports his divinity?

And are you sure there are no other books ever written that contain fulfilled prophecy?  I find that hard to believe.

[loco]

All due respect....  and you deserve it all......

Thank you!   

Your experiences are but mere scores in a see of 6 billion other souls who of which many have had spiritual experiences that radically changed their lives.  Of course they are not like "Jesus" because they don't involve him. 

These spiritual changes are with God's help in both Christian and non-Christian religions.

I see what you are saying, but I named people I know, people known through history and I quote the Bible, all in addition to my own experience.  I didn't just make statements.

Can you do the same to support your bold statements?  What's your experience?  Name some people.  Where did you get the 6 billion from?  Who are these people?  Quote some other religious text outside the Bible.

Give me something.

[loco]

the question was can you substantiate your claims with evidence outside the bible.  I haven't took the time to read all those links, but based on the titles they all seems to involve the Bible.  I get to them soon.

Yes, they are evidence outside the Bible, which show the Bible is more than just another book.  They show that our faith in the Bible is not blind faith.

You said that every time I only quote the Bible and nothing more.  That's not true.  I have been giving you evidence from history and archeology.  That's not only quoting the Bible.

Don't get me wrong.  I believe Jesus existed.  But where is evidence outside the bible that supports his divinity?

Where are his bones?  Plus, if you have evidence that the Bible is reliable, see above, then you can believe the Bible when it supports His divinity.   Of course, we are saved through faith.  So in the end, we must have faith.  The evidence is just to give an account, a reason for our faith.  The evidence is to show skeptics that ours is not blind faith.

And are you sure there are no other books ever written that contain fulfilled prophecy?  I find that hard to believe.

Yes, I'm sure.  But you are welcome prove me wrong.

[_Morrison_]

_Morrison_
Actually, the right answer to your question is this:

According to the Bible, yes, you are going to hell, but NOT because of that. 

You are going to hell because you are choosing to pay for all your own sins. 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

Even though you are a good person, you have sinned.  And your good deeds do not erase your bad deeds.  Your good works can't save you.

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.  not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

God does not want you to go to hell and that is why he sent his only Son Jesus to die for your sins, in your place.  If you have faith in Jesus and in what He did for you, then you will NOT go to hell.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

We deserve eternal death in hell for our sins, but instead God offers you the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
This is God's promise that if we call on the name of the Lord, we will be saved...not maybe...but will.

Here the Bible tells us how to call on the Lord:
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.  For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.  Romans 10:9-10

Whatever your sin, God will forgive and forget just as long as you repent and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. Isaiah 1:18

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.  I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."  1 John 1:9

Yeah okay, that's if you believe in any of that.  But thanks for informing me that I'm going to burn eternally in fire and brimstone. 

Question #1: wouldn't it be enough to be sorry for whatever sin you've committed?  I mean if you're sorry, then god already knows you are and would forgive you.  (Assuming he exists.)

Question #2: I have a little sister who's parents had her out of wedlock and still aren't married.  What do you think is gonna happen to her when she eventually dies?  Just out of curiosity.

[_Morrison_]

That we should what?

 

I meant we as in everyone but you.