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Author Topic: GREEN TEA + CAFFEINE PILLS: HEALTHY ALTERNATIVE TO ECA STACK  (Read 5938 times)
pumpster
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« on: April 15, 2007, 08:20:35 AM »

Pros & Cons discussed; I have no experience with this and would like to know before trying:

-Bronkaid or VasoPro?

-NoDoz or 1 cup of coffee?

-Does aspirin make any difference?

-What degree of health risk is involved, assuming moderate suggested doses of 25 mg. ephedrine in VasoPro taken once a day a while before cardio?

-Green Tea + 200 mg. caffeine pills as an alternative.

Thanks

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=141583.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69819.0
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 03:16:32 PM »

Pros & Cons discussed; I have no experience with this and would like to know before trying:

-Bronkaid or VasoPro?

-NoDoz or 1 cup of coffee?

-Does aspirin make any difference?

-What degree of health risk is involved, assuming moderate suggested doses of 25 mg. ephedrine in VasoPro taken once a day a while before cardio?

Thanks

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=141583.0

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=69819.0

First question:  What is your goal?  Fat loss, energy, mental alertness, other???

Personally, I do not advocate the use of aspirin as I've stated numerous times.  Others say 325mg, while others say a baby aspirin (81mg I think).  Do an advanced search on aspirin just for this board; you'll see the discussions.

The Bronkaid and Primatine have an expectorant in it (totally harmless) which I don't think the vaspro has.  Huh dunno  I guess go with what ever is easiest to get and cheapest.

Finding caffeine tabs lately seems to be a problem  Huh  I wonder if places like Target are keeping them behind the counter like some other stuff.  For some reason, I've always preferred Vivarin over NoDoz  Undecided even tho they both are 200mg.

So, for fat loss:

25mg Eph
200mg Cafe
3X day
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 03:26:04 PM »

The biggest thing you need to take into account is addiction.  ECA stack is very similar to Meth but on a much weaker scale.  You will build up a tollerance over time, and it will take more product to get you the same high for your workout.  Also I would only recommend it for people who want to get cut and not build muscle.  As Getting cut  requires to burn more calories than you take in, while gaining muscle requires you take in more calories than you burn.  When you decide to stop taking ECA you will be pretty useless for a good weak, as you will have no motivation to do anything, plus depression can be pretty severe.  If you can try more natural ways to burn the extra calories.  If you are looking to build muscle, ECA is in no way anabolic, so if that is what you are after you might try a test booster such as novedex xt, and or an N.O. product.
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 03:46:24 PM »

First question:  What is your goal?  Fat loss, energy, mental alertness, other???

Goal fat loss; cardio combined with this.

-Vivarin equivalent or more effective than a cup of coffee?

-Why thrice daily? What has been suggested and what seems to make sense is just one of those doses some time before cardio.

Thanks


Quote
The biggest thing you need to take into account is addiction.  ECA stack is very similar to Meth but on a much weaker scale.  You will build up a tollerance over time, and it will take more product to get you the same high for your workout.  Also I would only recommend it for people who want to get cut and not build muscle.
I'm thinking of trying it just to boost energy for existing cardio; what do you think of the advantages in using for a couple of months vs. the week downside after discontinuance? And of the possibilty of addiction from that period of time?

Thanks


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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 03:56:48 PM »

Goal fat loss; cardio combined with this.

-Vivarin equivalent or more effective than a cup of coffee?

-Why thrice daily? What has been suggested and what seems to make sense is just one of those doses some time before cardio.

Thanks

I'm thinking of trying it just to boost energy for existing cardio; what do you think of the advantages in using for a couple of months vs. the week downside after discontinuance? And of the possibilty of addiction from that period of time?

Thanks



There is a short half life on eph and cafe - hence the 3Xday - for fat loss.  If it's just for energy, then just try Vivarin.  I don't know how much caffeine is in a cup of java  Undecided

The talk of addiction is a bit extreme IMO.  Do yo have an addictive personality?  The "withdrawls" aren't that bad, but everyone is different.  My tolerace to stimulants is very high, so nothing really has much of an effect on me Cry
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2007, 04:13:44 PM »



There is a short half life on eph and cafe - hence the 3Xday - for fat loss.  If it's just for energy, then just try Vivarin.  I don't know how much caffeine is in a cup of java  Undecided



So basically thrice daily eph in order to increase the metabolism 24-7, which makes it more effective but could also lead to sleep disorder, no? If just for energy, just the vivarin then-blockhead's basically suggesting both just once before the workout, and that's IT. Once a day  eph - any effect in your opinion, or just use the Vivarin?

Addictive re: getbig and food.. Grin
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2007, 04:52:10 PM »

The biggest thing you need to take into account is addiction.  ECA stack is very similar to Meth but on a much weaker scale.  You will build up a tollerance over time, and it will take more product to get you the same high for your workout.  Also I would only recommend it for people who want to get cut and not build muscle.  As Getting cut  requires to burn more calories than you take in, while gaining muscle requires you take in more calories than you burn.  When you decide to stop taking ECA you will be pretty useless for a good weak, as you will have no motivation to do anything, plus depression can be pretty severe.  If you can try more natural ways to burn the extra calories.  If you are looking to build muscle, ECA is in no way anabolic, so if that is what you are after you might try a test booster such as novedex xt, and or an N.O. product.

eh.....chemically, ephedrine and methamphetamine are very similar, but their physiological effects are far more different. Moreover, the only time addiction becomes an issue with ephedrine is if you are mega-dosing. Stick with 25mg every 3-4 hours, and there will be no issues. I used the stack for 3 months straight (took off a week here and there), and had no withdrawl issues whatsoever. As well, I wasn't sluggish, and I felt perfectly fine when coming off. I've never heard of anyone being depressed after coming off either.
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 09:36:43 PM »

At my peak I was taking 25mg twice a day, for 6 weeks straight.  When I stopped taking it I didn't have the motivation to even get out of bed.  Life just plain sucked.  I have talked to numerous other people who experienced the same thing.  I guess the Downs might flexuate between people. But still if you are going to try it for any long period of time, be prepared to feel like shit for at least 3 or 4 days as you come off it.  I am currently trying an experiement using a sauna for at least an hour a day to shed the fat.  Thus far I am getting great results.  You might try that if you are looking for more natural ways of shedding the fat.
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2007, 06:40:33 AM »

Here're some healthier alternatives proposed on the main board gh15 thread. Anyone with experience with these vs. the usual EC stack please comment:

Ephedrine is nothing to play around with. It affects your heart and it's highly addictive. When you take it for weeks and weeks and come off of it you feel like shit. No power, no will to do anything, you just feel like shit. That's because it's realted to amphetamine. Ephedrine burns you out, both physically AND mentally. It takes a lot of willpower to use this component in a good way, and i doubt many people here have that willpower.

If you take it together with AAS, it will affect your heart badly because it raises blood pressure, ans AAS do too. Well, most people just up the aspirine  in the hope it will cure the problem, but high doses of ASS (aspirine) over a long time will kill your stomach and might cause inflammation of the pancreas.

I have an alternative to ephedrine, which is as effective as ephedrine and healthier in the long run. Green tea extract. 400mg polyphenols on two doses a day together with caffeine or guarana and stacked with the amino acid L-Tyrosine melt your fat down even better than ephedrine and it's a potent antioxidant.

If you want to stay with the ephedrine anyways, i advise you to try this:

Cut the ephedrine dose in half AND take it together with green tea extract, guarana, aspirine and L-Tyrosine. THis stack burns fat faster than a frypan and is way healthier than taking higher doses of ephedrine alone. Green tea extract raises both potency and halflife of ephedrine.
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2007, 06:56:57 AM »

In a study reported on in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, it was found that green tea extract resulted in a significant increase in energy expenditure (a measure of metabolism), plus also had a significant effect on fat oxidation.

While some of the effects were originally theorized to be due to the caffeine content of green tea, the researchers discovered that the tea actually has properties that go beyond those that would be explained by the caffeine.

The same amount of caffeine as was in the green tea, administered alone, failed to change energy expenditure in other studies. This led reseachers to believe that there is some interaction going on with the active ingredients of green tea that promotes increased metabolism and fat oxidation.

The researchers indicated that their findings have substantial implications for weight control. A 4% overall increase in 24-hour energy expenditure was attributed to the green tea extract, however, the research found that the extra expenditure took place during the daytime. This led them to conclude that, since thermogenesis (the body's own rate of burning calories) contributes 8-10% of daily energy expenditure in a typical cubject, that this 4% overall increase in energy expenditure due to the green tea actually translated to a 35-43% increase in daytime thermogenesis.

Of critical importance to thyroid patients is the fact that none of the research subjects reported any side effects, and no significant differences in heart rates were noticed. In this respect, green tea extract is different from some of the prescription drugs for obesity, and herbal products like ephedra, which can raise heart rates and blood pressure, and are not recommended for many individuals, in particular, those with thyroid disease who may be particularly sensitive to stimulants.

If you were to incorporate green tea into your weight loss efforts, how is the best way to go about it?

One way would be to choose a reputable brand of organic green tea at a health food store or natural grocery, and start by taking a cup of tea every day. You can also take a green tea extract, in the form of a supplement.

Either way, says dietitian Lynn Moss, M.S., R.D., a continuing education specialist for Pharmavite, you should take the green tea with meals, to reproduce the study's conditions as much as possible.

Moss also feels that green tea may be a good choice for thyroid patients because, unlike caffeine, " green tea has the potential to accelerate metabolism -- which can help weight loss slightly -- without overstimulating your adrenal glands."
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2007, 05:46:02 PM »

JUST TRIED 200 MG. CAFFEINE 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE CARDIO...GREAT ALL BY ITSELF FOR HIGHER INTENSITY AND INCREASED ENDURANCE DOWN THE STRETCH.

SUGGESTION:

-TRY 200 MG. CAFFEINE BY ITSELF 10-15 MINUTES BEFORE WORKOUT

-IN LATER WORKOUTS COMPARE THE EFFECT OF ADDING GREEN TEA (MEGA T, ETC) TO THE CAFFEINE, AS PER DIRECTIONS.



THIS MIGHT BE ENOUGH, AVOIDING EPH AND ECA STACK RISKS. Grin
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2007, 06:02:12 PM »

I recommend this over any other energy supplement (with the one exception being Endorush - I love those things, but I don't think massive vitamin B intake is a good thing on a regular basis). A typical combo for me is

200 mg caffeine (No doz)
1 mega green tea tablet (gives another 50mg of caffeine)
3gms Arginine/Orthonine.

(45 min pre -workout)

then- 30 grams whey with 50 grams waxy maize

(30 min peworkout)
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2007, 06:29:10 PM »

I use Guarana made by Source Naturals. It contains natural caffeine.


I supplement with extra minerals because caffeine depletes calcium, magnesium, potassium, zinc, and iron.
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