Author Topic: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!  (Read 40180 times)

canadaphiliac

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #150 on: April 22, 2007, 08:27:59 PM »
Luck is the residue of preparation and design, my friend.  ;) Taking CroCop down and busting Mirko's face up with multiple elbows followed by knocking him unconcious with a kick to the head ain't "luck", son. He literally whupped CroCop's ass.  :P

You can say this or that guy is boring, overrated...whatever. But in any given fight one of these guys may beat Fedor. Maybe one of the guys I mentioned, maybe Brandon Vera...who knows? I'm just saying NO man is unbeatable in mma. 2007 is proving that.

You are touting Randy as "The Man", and I agree. But was he "The Man" or "The Old Man" in your eyes after his two straight losses to the Iceman? Tell the truth and don't be a phony.
Actually, I didn't see those two fights until after I saw him rape Syvlia for the title. I've been a Couture fan since he won the title from Maurice Smith oh so long ago. Seeing his losses to Liddell made me think two things though, 1. there honestly is no shame in losing to Chick, and 2. people go through phases. He was saying he just wasn't in a good place at the time, and seeing how he came back, I'm incline to buy that. I think that's what happened to Cro Cop after the beat downs he's laid on people and the losses he's suffered to the likes of Fedor and Hoost, he must have been off. I just don't believe Gonzaga beat Mirko at anywhere near his best. As for Arlovski, he has one impressive win, and that was submitting out Tim Sylvia, the punch he landed being the most impressive part about that. Aside from that he's just hype and ego.

BEAST 8692

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3545
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #151 on: April 23, 2007, 01:21:50 AM »
this is the reality of fighting.

on any given day, any fighter can be beaten by another fighter.

mma is at a wonderful status at the moment and the biggest winners are fight fans.

it is very similar right now to what boxing was in the old days.

back when purses for boxing were much smaller, pro fighters had to fight often and whomever would get them the biggest return, which happened to be the best opponent. fans had the luxury of getting the best fights because:

1. fighters would fight often so their skills, conditioning (for fighting) and edge were always top flight.

2. fighters had to fight the best opponents and often otherwise the fans would turn away ie fighter starves or gets another line of work.

3. fans get to see WHO is the best of the best and their favourite fighters tested.

4. fighters wouldn't get 'soft' (lose killer instinct/edge) because the very thing that attracted them to fighting in the first place (hunger/survival) remained because they never made so much money that didn't have to fight. hw champ jack dempsey put it best when he said, "it's very hard to go running in the snow at 5:00 in the morning when you're wearing silk underwear.

this is a pertinent point in that dempsey was one of the first fighters to really make a lot of money from pugilism, which is a good reason why the guy didn't fight for 3 years, yet retained the hw title. the fans lapped up his anti hero killer style (much the same as tyson) and he got paid so much money that he just didn't have to fight. needless to say he came back a shell of his former self (soft) and tunney kicked his arse.

right now no mma fighter is making so much money or has so much control that they can totally pick and choose when and who they want to fight (although ortiz has tried to kick the till a bit with dana's blessing).

as mma gets bigger, white is going to lose his monopoly on the american market and competition is going to give fighters more control.

instead of being contained among a stable of fighters like dana has, individuals are going to get taken away by savvy promoters and managers just like boxing.

when that happens, these individuals are going to get managed to perfection and their super star status is going to afford them the ability to pick and choose opponents because fans are going to pay just to see them ie tyson was managed to perfection because cayton and jacobs manipulated the media with the mystique of this man killer from brooklyn (similar to dempsey) whilst picking opponents that tyson would look really good against. they would then send the videos of all these ko victories to boxing journos and voila tyson becomes a freak fighting machine.

don't get me wrong, tyson was a 'freak fighting machine' because he was brought along to perfection. i mean the way he was trained, managed and continually fighting, etc was a study in perfection. jews are absolutely brilliant at making money. don king is a baboon by comparison.

anyway, i digress. you get the point. mma is the future. the only obstacle i can see is legality, but then boxing had no problem getting around that.

history repeats. ;)










Dorian01

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1264
  • Coach loves the sticky studs
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #152 on: April 23, 2007, 04:35:48 AM »
The winner is based on the rules. If you throw in wooden swords, and some other weird shit, then the boxer's/mma fighter's chances of winning are going to go down because they don't train to fight under that set of rules.

rccs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3085
  • Alma Matter!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #153 on: April 23, 2007, 06:51:55 AM »
Fedor can defeat any boxer in the world! The same goes to Mirko!
S

Richard2004

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2330
  • REAL explosive strength!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #154 on: April 23, 2007, 07:36:30 AM »
Guys, focusing on the subject of this thread, forget the tremendous multi-faceted striking and ground-fighting skills/arsenal of a current top-level MMA fighter...historically, a top-level SUBMISSION wrestler, or jiu-jitsu fighter, has FOR DECADES (and STILL) can finish off a boxer in short order (generally speaking)!

Hello...this "boxer versus wrestler" (in essence the same time-worn argument) has been going on for (at least) hundreds (thousands?) of years, actually.  Thank God, since the early-90's and the advent of televised MMA fighting...the general public has finally been exposed to the truth!

Of course, Mayweather is just talking trash and has far more to lose than he has to gain by stepping in the ring with a top-level MMA fighter, in his weight-divison.  But, that being said, of course, a boxer can always land a "lucky knock-out punch(es)" as the ground-game expert tries to close-the-gap and take the boxer to the ground (as Chuck Liddell has so often demonstrated!).  But, this rarely, if ever, has been the case.

Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!

However, in the '70's and '80's, back in the heyday of the Professional Karate Association (PKA) days of televised pro. kickboxing (with the likes of Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Brad Hefton, Jean-Yves Theriault, Rick Roufus, etc.), where all kicks/strikes were limited to above-the-waistline and no throwing or ground-fighting was allowed (of course!), a highly-skilled boxer had a good chance of beating a hard-art "karate-fighter"/kickboxer once he got inside kicking range.

However, as we all know, in ANY pairing of two fighters (regardless of the empty-handed fighting art they practice!), the outcome will ALWAYS depend upon the athletic skills of the INDIVIDUAL fighter and his real mastery of his particular fighting art!



 

Richard2004

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2330
  • REAL explosive strength!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #155 on: April 23, 2007, 07:58:09 AM »
Of course, ancient PANKRATION was/is(?) the "absolute ultimate" empty-handed fighting art...

Pankration, as practiced in the ancient world, combined elements of both boxing (pygme/pygmachia) and wrestling (pale) to create a broad fighting sport similar to today's mixed martial arts. A match was won by submission of the opponent or if the opponent was incapacitated. A contestant could signal submission by raising his hand, but sometimes the only form of submission was unconsciousness or death. Joint locks and choke holds were common techniques of accomplishing this. In fact, there were only two rules: contestants were not allowed to gouge eyes or to bite. Grave, even permanent injuries were common as an accepted means of disabling the adversary: mainly breaking limbs, fingers or even the neck. Pankration bouts were quite brutal and sometimes life-threatening to the competitors. There were no weight divisions and no time limits. The fighting arena or "ring" was no more than twelve by fourteen feet to encourage close-quarter action. Referees were armed with stout rods or switches to enforce the rules against biting and gouging. The rules, however, were often broken by some participants who, realizing they were outclassed by a heavier and stronger foe, would resort to such measures to escape being seriously maimed. The contest itself continued uninterrupted until one of the combatants either surrendered, suffered unconsciousness, or was killed. Although knockouts were common, most pankration battles were decided on the ground where both striking and submission techniques would freely come into play. Pankratiasts were highly-skilled grapplers and were extremely effective in applying a variety of takedowns, chokes, and punishing joint locks. Strangulation was most feared during ground combat, and was the leading cause of death in matches. A fighter would immediately raise his arm in defeat once his opponent's forearm had secured a firm grip across the windpipe or carotid artery (though there are stories of fighters who chose to die rather than surrender.)

If there was no winner by sunset, the judges would declare Klimax and the fighters would start taking alternating undefended blows until one was defeate
 

The feats of the ancient pankratiasts became legendary in the annals of Greek athletics. Stories abound of past champions and masters who were considered invincible beings. Arrichion, Dioxippus and Polydamas are among the most highly-recognized names, their accomplishments defying the odds by besting multiple armed opponents in life-and-death combat.

Among pankration fighters, Dioxippus was the most famous. He won several Olympic games as no one dared challenge him, became friends with Alexander the Great and some accounts claim he defeated one of Alexander the Great's soldiers named Coragus (who fought with weapons and full armour), armed only with a club. Later, Dioxippus was framed of theft, which led him to commit suicide.

In the lead-up to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, a modern version of pankration (not naked, usually wearing only shorts or a type of loin cloth, sometimes also T-shirts) was tipped as being a new sport in the Olympiad, especially due to its being an event in the ancient games. However, its application (along with that of inline skating) was not approved. Rumours were that it was rejected due to its inherently violent nature, even though the modern version is significantly less violent than the original, and like boxing and wrestling, also ancient Olympic sports, there is an international set of humane rules governing the modern sport.

Influence:
Because of Alexander the Great's impact on the Middle East and India, there is a belief by some that cultural exchange may have occurred in these civilizations. It has been suggested that the fighting systems of India were influenced by the invasions of Alexander, but this has not been substantiated by firm scientific evidence. It is still unknown what cultural influence he may have had on India. A thorough anthropological study of this history would be required.

Pankration's influence on modern culture is still debatable as the modern version of Pankration is not the original form as practiced by the ancient Greeks. The original ancient Greek form of Pankration was not fully transmitted to later generations due to the fall of the Greek and Roman civilizations and the subsequent European Dark Ages. Most modern versions of Pankration are influenced by Western boxing, catch and freestyle wrestling, ancient Greek artifacts (i.e. pottery, vases, sculptures, writings), as well as East Asian martial arts like karate, kung-fu, jujitsu, and muay thai.

Advocates for the sport have formed a US Pankration Team, and it is possible that a modern version of the sport could be introduced at the Olympics in the future.

Some modern pankration groups are seeking to re-introduce classical Hellenistic culture into contemporary martial arts (sport, athleticism, philosophy, ethics, and all round personal development). One such system of "contemporary" Pankration, known as "Mu Tau Pankration," was founded by Demetrios "Jim" Arvanitis in the latter half of the 20th Century. The first modern palaistra (school) was established in 1971.

Mr. Arvanitis has published three non-fictional books on modern pankration: MU TAU: The Modern Greek Karate, Todd & Honeywell, NY, 1979; MU TAU PANKRATION: Volume 1/Concepts and Skills of "All-Powers" Combat, Spartan Publications, Boston, MA, 1997; PANKRATION: The Traditional Greek Combat Sport and Modern Mixed Martial Art, Paladin Press, Boulder, CO, 2003.


legbreaker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2007, 09:13:46 AM »






Personally, having been challenged by boxers over my many years of MMA practice, whenever boxers would challenge me to "get into the ring with them" they would then try to force me to put on a pair of boxing gloves, not allow any kicks at all (and certainly no low-line/leg kicking!) and, of course, disallow any takedowns/throwing or ground fighting...hilarious and pathetic...thus, really trying to stack-the-deck in their favor!!

How is it stacking the odds in their favor if you BOTH train striking skills?

The ONE common denominator between the two of you is hands, true?

If you were to allow kicks and takedowns, both skills he didn't train, then that would not be fair, true?

Why not just tough it out and go at it with the skills you BOTH do and see who the better man is?

I know why so you don't need to answer.....YOU WOULD BE KNOCKED OUT, hahaha.

Tough guy wants to fight  someone with skills they don't train to see who the betetr man is, haha, give me a break,.

The Jayhawker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2007, 11:56:40 AM »
Back on Topic.

MMA Fighter vs. Boxer? One of the big obstacles with this is that the MMA has SO many different rule sets based on league and/or location. Because the MMA has not created a universal "rule set" similar to boxing you could make several points either way.

For example a K1 or Pride fighter vs. a boxer might have trouble because they normally they don't spend lots of time on the ground. Boxers in general are faster, know how to throw combos and have greater punching power. A boxer would hold the advantage in this case.

The UFC are wrestlers that attempt to box or kickbox. Dana White is going to back his guys no matter what but I don’t think I have every seen a UFC fighter throw a 1-2-3 combination. Sure they’ll throw a haymaker like it’s going out of style and might try a jab here or there but most UFC guys swing for the fences and miss. They cannot take a punch in the way a boxer does and are most often looking to go to the ground. A boxer would have a hard time fighting a UFC fighter because they don't like to box they like to wrestle. Go ahead and disagree, it’s true.

There is one thing however that will get into the way. EGO. If I were a professional MMA fighter the last thing I would want to hear is that I don't know how to punch or trade punches I have to fight on the ground. It is that Ego that the UFC is full of. Just watch The Ultimate Fighter reality show on Spike. These guys are very immature people with Egos that are a little too big.

It is this Ego that would be the problem. There is no question that Chuck Liddell would rather trade punches then take a fight to the ground. Now he CAN take a fight to the ground but he prefers the knockout. You throw him in the ring with Jean-Marc Mormeck ( Current WBA Cruiserweight Champion ) Chuck might want to trade shots and if he does he'll get KO'd.

I think that out of 10 fights it would be 5 towards MMA and 5 towards boxers. Any MMA guy that wants to try to stand up and trade shots will go down. If the MMA guy takes the fight to the ground if it's not stood back up, then they would get the win.

J

americanbulldog

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2681
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2007, 01:42:45 PM »
Back on Topic.

MMA Fighter vs. Boxer? One of the big obstacles with this is that the MMA has SO many different rule sets based on league and/or location. Because the MMA has not created a universal "rule set" similar to boxing you could make several points either way.

For example a K1 or Pride fighter vs. a boxer might have trouble because they normally they don't spend lots of time on the ground. Boxers in general are faster, know how to throw combos and have greater punching power. A boxer would hold the advantage in this case.

The UFC are wrestlers that attempt to box or kickbox. Dana White is going to back his guys no matter what but I don’t think I have every seen a UFC fighter throw a 1-2-3 combination. Sure they’ll throw a haymaker like it’s going out of style and might try a jab here or there but most UFC guys swing for the fences and miss. They cannot take a punch in the way a boxer does and are most often looking to go to the ground. A boxer would have a hard time fighting a UFC fighter because they don't like to box they like to wrestle. Go ahead and disagree, it’s true.

There is one thing however that will get into the way. EGO. If I were a professional MMA fighter the last thing I would want to hear is that I don't know how to punch or trade punches I have to fight on the ground. It is that Ego that the UFC is full of. Just watch The Ultimate Fighter reality show on Spike. These guys are very immature people with Egos that are a little too big.

It is this Ego that would be the problem. There is no question that Chuck Liddell would rather trade punches then take a fight to the ground. Now he CAN take a fight to the ground but he prefers the knockout. You throw him in the ring with Jean-Marc Mormeck ( Current WBA Cruiserweight Champion ) Chuck might want to trade shots and if he does he'll get KO'd.

I think that out of 10 fights it would be 5 towards MMA and 5 towards boxers. Any MMA guy that wants to try to stand up and trade shots will go down. If the MMA guy takes the fight to the ground if it's not stood back up, then they would get the win.



IF THERE EVER WAS A cross promotion that had boxing versus MMA under MMA unified rules, the MMA fighter would not stand.  (Especially Zuffa fighters) They will be ordered to make an example of boxing and boxers to win more market share.  So you'd see an exceptionally quick shot, passing what ever guard the boxer could put up, mount, then a serious case of GNP.  Fight over. 

Richard2004

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2330
  • REAL explosive strength!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2007, 07:01:07 PM »
How is it stacking the odds in their favor if you BOTH train striking skills?

The ONE common denominator between the two of you is hands, true?

If you were to allow kicks and takedowns, both skills he didn't train, then that would not be fair, true?

Why not just tough it out and go at it with the skills you BOTH do and see who the better man is?

I know why so you don't need to answer.....YOU WOULD BE KNOCKED OUT, hahaha.

Tough guy wants to fight  someone with skills they don't train to see who the betetr man is, haha, give me a break,.

Yeah, the "common denominator" is hands...but, the boxer is far better at strictly punching skills than an MMA fighter in his one-dimensional sport.  Of course, as we all know, "punching" (i.e. jab, cross, hook, and uppercut) is a very LIMITED use of the hands (e.g. totally ignoring hand strikes such as palm-heels, hammer-fists, knife-hand, finger thrusts/jabs, back-fists, spinning back-fists, etc., etc...which are all "illegal" in boxing), not to mention a series of elbow strikes.

Hello... the boxers I was referring to wanted to "stack the deck" into strictly their comfort zone...so, similarily, it was only natural for me to try to stay in my "comfort zones" as well...but, what the hell does ANY of this have to do with someone trying to be a "tough guy"!???   

Back on the subject, if a martial-artist could use just/ONLY his full-range of closed/open HAND strikes along with elbow strikes (forget all the knee/kicking/head strikes, throws, takedowns, clinching, and grappling techniques!), he STILL should be able to best strictly a boxer/puncher...again, IF the two fighters are at a comparable skill-level.

How I would love to see trash-talking Mayweather square-off against a top-ranked Muay Thai fighter in his bwt. class (no ground-fighting skills required!)!


Wombat

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2873
  • Your name tattooed to my ass!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #160 on: April 23, 2007, 08:13:37 PM »
Yes but this thread is champs vs champs.  Unfortunately for the boxer, it is one sided, not much to do when your on your back getting stommped in the face and soccer kicked in the head.


a current champ in mma is Matt Serra... Put mayweather in the ring with this little punk and Serra would be knocked the fuk out within 30 seconds...The guy barely beat some of the guys in tuff, who are absolute nobodies...

Chuck Liddel is good in Mma because he knocks people out and has great take down defense...But lets be real Chuck can't box for shit compared to a champian boxer....But that is really all he does in the ring...If Liddel with his shitty boxing can knock people out with no problem, what do you think a highly trained athlete would do to guys like Serra or hughes ect...

now take a guy like mayweather and pull the big boxing gloves off and his hand speed would be that much more deadly...These top boxers are true athletes...Give them a couple of months to learn a few things in the MMa ring and they would be deadly...

Matt Serra a year ago was an absolute freak'n bum....Hardly a highly trained athlete..Now he is a world champ(what a joke)...These light boxers could run away from these fools all day long in the ring and pick them apart at will...

Wombat

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2873
  • Your name tattooed to my ass!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #161 on: April 23, 2007, 08:16:53 PM »
Fedor can defeat any boxer in the world! The same goes to Mirko!

i agree...but mayweather is not a heavy weight...stick a champian boxer in the middles or under with a champian mma fighter(ala a matt serra)who lived in a dumster a year ago and what do you think really would happen?

OKMike

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 538
  • Getbig!
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2007, 08:55:07 PM »
a current champ in mma is Matt Serra... Put mayweather in the ring with this little punk and Serra would be knocked the fuk out within 30 seconds...The guy barely beat some of the guys in tuff, who are absolute nobodies...

Chuck Liddel is good in Mma because he knocks people out and has great take down defense...But lets be real Chuck can't box for shit compared to a champian boxer....But that is really all he does in the ring...If Liddel with his shitty boxing can knock people out with no problem, what do you think a highly trained athlete would do to guys like Serra or hughes ect...

now take a guy like mayweather and pull the big boxing gloves off and his hand speed would be that much more deadly...These top boxers are true athletes...Give them a couple of months to learn a few things in the MMa ring and they would be deadly...

Matt Serra a year ago was an absolute freak'n bum....Hardly a highly trained athlete..Now he is a world champ(what a joke)...These light boxers could run away from these fools all day long in the ring and pick them apart at will...

 ::)  Serra was the first American to receive a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and has been a champion in bjj competition.  It took him many years to receive that rank.  He is a highly skilled athlete.

Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2007, 09:29:17 PM »
::)  Serra was the first American to receive a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and has been a champion in bjj competition.  It took him many years to receive that rank.  He is a highly skilled athlete.

Actually, Matt is the first Renzo Gracie American black belt. The first American bjj black belt is Craig Kukuk, both were instructors of mine at one time.

Matt is a freak on the mat. He would take Mayweather down at the ankles and submit him in less than a minute. So would I, for that matter.

People make these boxers out to be Gods. They're good at boxing. That's it. Most of the guys in the heavyweight division are fat slobs who can hit. Get these guys on the ground, if they don't know grappling, they're toast.

legbreaker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #164 on: April 23, 2007, 10:10:54 PM »
Yeah, the "common denominator" is hands...but, the boxer is far better at strictly punching skills than an MMA fighter in his one-dimensional sport.  Of course, as we all know, "punching" (i.e. jab, cross, hook, and uppercut) is a very LIMITED use of the hands (e.g. totally ignoring hand strikes such as palm-heels, hammer-fists, knife-hand, finger thrusts/jabs, back-fists, spinning back-fists, etc., etc...which are all "illegal" in boxing), not to mention a series of elbow strikes.

Hello... the boxers I was referring to wanted to "stack the deck" into strictly their comfort zone...so, similarily, it was only natural for me to try to stay in my "comfort zones" as well...but, what the hell does ANY of this have to do with someone trying to be a "tough guy"!???   

Back on the subject, if a martial-artist could use just/ONLY his full-range of closed/open HAND strikes along with elbow strikes (forget all the knee/kicking/head strikes, throws, takedowns, clinching, and grappling techniques!), he STILL should be able to best strictly a boxer/puncher...again, IF the two fighters are at a comparable skill-level.

How I would love to see trash-talking Mayweather square-off against a top-ranked Muay Thai fighter in his bwt. class (no ground-fighting skills required!)!



Hey Richard...  yeah, the tough guy comment wasn't necessary, my apologies.

Either way, this discussion isn't really fair unless we're just talking skills that both guy train.

can a pitcher hit like a outfielder?  They're both pros but you know the difference.

Here you have boxers that never even trained for any of these other skills, but you also have mma guys that train standup hours each day as do boxers.

Why not then put them in a ring and throw hands to see what's up?

Muay thai would be better compared to k1, I believe.

BEAST 8692

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3545
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #165 on: April 23, 2007, 10:36:17 PM »
this debate could go on forever.

get a guy that has everything tyson had in standup and everything fedor/prime kerr has on ground and you have a guy that destroys EVERYONE.

obviously if you have access to more weapons ie mma, you are at an advantage in mma, but what has to be considered here is the other factors that make up a great fighter ie athleticism, power, speed, movement, courage, durability, chin and, most importantly, that x factor that sees guys win big when everything is stacked against them on paper.

fighting is like no other sport on earth. it has got everything a sport should have, but there is an aspect to it that is beyond anything that can be tought in the gym.

i don't know how many of you guys actually compete but, even if you go to a gym/studio/club where guys do compete, you have no doubt observed the many many guys that have been there for years, look great in training, sparring, etc but either never fight or get killed when they do.

this is the edge that the best pro boxers currently have.

they have a legacy of many years of the best possible genetic pool. you are talking about guys that grow up on the mean streets of brooklyn, philadelphia, etc and, not only survive street life but survive brutal training and sparring with guys in the same circumstance. only the toughest, most focused of the genetic elite rise to the top and become champion boxers.

mma competition is a baby by comparison and, let's face it, most of the guys in mma clubs are from affluent backgrounds and are there more for the status ('i do mma man') than anything. it is really pathetic actually and when/if they grow up they will realise how stupid they were. they are just a pain in the arse and just get in the way of the competitors most of the time. they want the best of both worlds, they want to have the security and comfort of wealth and be a 'killer' aswell ::).

this is exactly why they will never be truly great fighters because you just can't have both. you can be good, but you will never have that x factor that only comes from survival.

at this time, unfortunately, the only 'boxers' that have competed in ufc, etc have been 'has beens' or 'never weres'. some may have decent records, but that's a boxing trait also. just about anyone can pay for a decent record in boxing eg. mickey rourke.

there is no doubt in my mind that someone like pbf has the tools to keep matt at bay for a while, but sooner or later serra will get close and then it's over very quickly for pbf, and with 5 minute rounds that's going to be more sooner than later. however, imo, the right matchups can favour the boxer.

it's just not cut and dry at the moment for the above reasons.

Thin Lizzy

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18452
  • It’s all a fraud
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #166 on: April 23, 2007, 10:53:14 PM »

they have a legacy of many years of the best possible genetic pool. you are talking about guys that grow up on the mean streets of brooklyn, philadelphia, etc and, not only survive street life but survive brutal training and sparring with guys in the same circumstance. only the toughest, most focused of the genetic elite rise to the top and become champion boxers.


While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.

canadaphiliac

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 690
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2007, 11:17:28 PM »
While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.
But don't you know, in real life everyone only punches, and keeps it above the belt.  :D

BEAST 8692

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3545
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2007, 11:58:20 PM »
While this is true, if one of these guys gets taken down and is on the wrong end of a rear naked, socio-economic background doesn't mean sh!t, they're going beddy bye.

ABSOLUTELY!

as the money and competition goes up for mma, mma WILL be the superior fighter 100% of the time becaue the genetic elite pro fighter will always go for the money first.

anyone that says that professional fighting isn't about money is either lying or has had a sheltered life.

btw, canada, whatever skills i have in empty hand, on the street i am ALWAYS going to use the best weapons at my disposal. if that be a brick, bat, blade or teeth, so be it. i'm fucked anyway if i fight on the street so whatever.

not to say that street fighting is smart (it's stupid) but it seems that this is where this thread is heading.


The Jayhawker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #169 on: April 24, 2007, 06:47:14 AM »
The fact is that MMA "fighters" are good wrestlers. Go back and read your own threads. In every instance it's always the same thing "the MMA guy would just take your boxer to the ground".

It sounds like there is no MIX in  Mixed Martial Arts. The answer is the same. Well I can't trade punches so I'll just take him to the ground and win that way.

However if you put a MMA guy into the ring with an Olympic Wrestler he would have to trade punches cause they aren't top level wrestlers. (Some might have been good high school wrestlers, but again it's high school).

You can't say that boxers can only punch when it's clear that an MMA fighter can only wrestle, sometimes.

An MMA fighter can fight in several styles only with other MMA fighters. If any MMA fighter were to compete in an event vs a professional of one particular style (boxing, wrestling, kick boxing, etc.) they would have trouble capturing victory.

MMA fighters clearly have to be in a venue where rules allow several forms of "fighting" to take place at once. It is this advantage on changing styles that capture a greater fan base and keep the odds of winning for any particular fighter high because one style might or might not make an appearance.



J

BEAST 8692

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3545
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #170 on: April 24, 2007, 06:52:41 AM »
The fact is that MMA "fighters" are good wrestlers. Go back and read your own threads. In every instance it's always the same thing "the MMA guy would just take your boxer to the ground".

It sounds like there is no MIX in  Mixed Martial Arts. The answer is the same. Well I can't trade punches so I'll just take him to the ground and win that way.

However if you put a MMA guy into the ring with an Olympic Wrestler he would have to trade punches cause they aren't top level wrestlers. (Some might have been good high school wrestlers, but again it's high school).

You can't say that boxers can only punch when it's clear that an MMA fighter can only wrestle, sometimes.

An MMA fighter can fight in several styles only with other MMA fighters. If any MMA fighter were to compete in an event vs a professional of one particular style (boxing, wrestling, kick boxing, etc.) they would have trouble capturing victory.

MMA fighters clearly have to be in a venue where rules allow several forms of "fighting" to take place at once. It is this advantage on changing styles that capture a greater fan base and keep the odds of winning for any particular fighter high because one style might or might not make an appearance.





no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.

The Jayhawker

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 108
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #171 on: April 24, 2007, 07:14:28 AM »
no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.



That's like saying that a high level golfer can't beat an amateur bowler at bowling. It's a different sport.

A MMA fighter can beat a boxer in the MMA ring but not a boxing ring.
A MMA fighter can beat a wrestler in the MMA ring but not a wrestling mat.
A MMA fighter can beat a kickboxer in the MMA ring but not a kickboxing ring. (Example Cro Cop)

When people argue on MMA vs boxer it's always with MMA rules.

Here's are some questions : Would a MMA fighter beat a boxer if you were allowed to take down but can't hit on the ground? Is the boxer wearing the 2 oz. gloves or boxing gloves? Is the fight in a ring with ropes or the octagon with a fence?

No one is asking these questions before making the comparison. That's my point. I really respect all forms of "fighting" but you can't compare two sports that are so different.

A fight between a boxer and a MMA fighter will never happen. Would you want to fight under someone else's rules in their house? No.

A boxer should never fight in a MMA fight cause he would lose and a MMA fighter should never fight in a boxing match cause he would lose.

It's two different sports.
J

BEAST 8692

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3545
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #172 on: April 24, 2007, 08:14:51 AM »

That's like saying that a high level golfer can't beat an amateur bowler at bowling. It's a different sport.

A MMA fighter can beat a boxer in the MMA ring but not a boxing ring.
A MMA fighter can beat a wrestler in the MMA ring but not a wrestling mat.
A MMA fighter can beat a kickboxer in the MMA ring but not a kickboxing ring. (Example Cro Cop)

When people argue on MMA vs boxer it's always with MMA rules.

Here's are some questions : Would a MMA fighter beat a boxer if you were allowed to take down but can't hit on the ground? Is the boxer wearing the 2 oz. gloves or boxing gloves? Is the fight in a ring with ropes or the octagon with a fence?

No one is asking these questions before making the comparison. That's my point. I really respect all forms of "fighting" but you can't compare two sports that are so different.

A fight between a boxer and a MMA fighter will never happen. Would you want to fight under someone else's rules in their house? No.

A boxer should never fight in a MMA fight cause he would lose and a MMA fighter should never fight in a boxing match cause he would lose.

It's two different sports.

true, but i think the angle being taken is 'who is the ultimate fighter?' as in if there were no rules.

of course the limiting factor that people don't seem to realise is that mma has got rules and they are significant in that they remove a lot of the real danger of a 'no rules contest'.


Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31865
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #173 on: April 24, 2007, 10:31:51 AM »
Boxing is feeling the heat from the public's growing interest in the UFC. That's all this is about.  At the rate interest in growing the day is coming where UFC fights will be pulling in more money than boxing, UFC fighters will be paid more and they're just trying to change that direction.  This latest fight of Mayweather/de la hoya's has got to be one of the most highly promoted matches ever?  The commercials are constant, not something they use to have to do.  It doesn't surprise me they have guys out there trying to beef up boxers as Superior fighters.  Matching a good UFC fighter with a good Boxer is like matching a good Boxer with a Bowler :P  They know it won't happen so they're free to go after building a false image of boxers being better fighters.

legbreaker

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
Re: Boxer or UFC fighter? Mayweather says boxers would punish UFC champs!!
« Reply #174 on: April 24, 2007, 12:21:00 PM »
no one is suggesting that a high level mma fighter beats a high level boxer at boxing. the question is vice versa.


Beast, I don't even think that's a question.

Who would ever say a boxer can beat a high level wrestler at wrestling or a high level mma guy with mma rules.

My thing is simple, however.  If you want to compatre true ability's then just let them go with the skills they both developed...and today mma is a greater standup game then it was ten years ago.

John L sullivan, the old days, just let them throw hands, since they both do that, and the best man will prevale.

How can anyone think a top level, fully rounded mma guy would get beaten by a boxer in a no rules fight?  It's pretty ridiculous.  If they developed other skills to that level then the boxer would win, but without training it's not even a good discussion.

Boxing is clearly the more skilled game as is evident by the number of years it takes to excell at it compared to mma.  5 yeasr and some guys are champs at todays mma....That will never happen ion top level boxing.

Watch Delahoya/mayweather on hbo, the countdownm each week and you will see skill far exceeded, not even in the same ball park, as mma guys.