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Author Topic: Dickerson  (Read 9177 times)
Figo
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« on: May 03, 2007, 10:23:56 AM »

I posted this on Ironage, and due to their 'glorify the old days and frown upon extensive talk of steroid use in that period' policy, my thread was locked. Which I understand and respect, since its their policy, and the members there aprove.
However, my q. remains unanswered, can anyone enlighten? :

"Dickerson achieved fantastic conditioning and was able to get into shape in record time, from what I hear, also clearing house in early 80's winning Grand Prix's, Mr O, etc. I heard his "secret" was a compound much like Drive which accentuated and made other aas more receptive by his physique. Can anyone around then, or familiar, elaborate?
Man was way ahead of his time(conditioning, polished pro), obviously gifted with certain genes, but also one of hardest trainers(intensity) around, I believe. Another very inspirational physique which was beyond belief for time was Zane!"
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2007, 03:23:21 PM »

He was one of the earliest guys to use growth hormone. check the elbows





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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2007, 04:10:49 PM »

his biceps were smaller than the knot on his elbow.

He had great conditioning & some good body parts....but IMO I believe he was the worst Mr O
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 08:24:32 PM »

Used to see him train all the time.  Almost got i a fight with him (I would have killed him).  I remember one time though it was 12 weeks or so out from the Olympia (maybe 81 or 82, not sure) and he had a round stomach and said he was 40 lbs overweight.  He spent an entire hour on the roan chair doing situps and twists.  He did that everyday I think. That is about the only thing I remember about him
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 09:55:59 PM »

He was one of the earliest guys to use growth hormone. check the elbows


Ludicrous speculation-growth hormone based on the shape of his elbows? bwhahahaahahahh
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2007, 02:41:08 AM »

I used to post years ago on ironage. There was a similar topic about Chris and it was discussed that he took the early forms of gh that was from cadavers .Many more side effects  than you would normally get from the synthetic stuff. truth or b.s. rumors; i have no  idea.
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2007, 08:23:48 AM »

The photo right shot, in the middle pic, shows a very unusual bicep formation compaired to the other bicep. Wonder what was going on. The triceps look lumpy, rather than hard and defined in that otherwise hard body condition. The elbows are like a calling card saying, "I've got a secret...extra bone growth". Fairly clear some chemical assistence was used by him. GH will tend to affect bone growth at the point of the elbows and brow and jaw line. Not to mention internal organ abnormal growth. Wonder how he's doing now?
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2007, 11:06:04 AM »

I realize its a different pose, but in 1st (early) pic his elbows look normal?
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2007, 02:37:46 PM »

Good example of internet speculation:

-That pic could've easily been morphed; both the elbow and muscle shape looks like something that's been digitally altered. Again, where are the other shots like that to corroborate this idle speculation?

-He always had that general shape to the elbows, predating any GH use.

-If GH-related, you can be sure that it would be seen with other bodybuilders. Where is it?

-He's old school and sensible; if he took GH Bill Pearl and others probably did too. Do you believe that? Anything's possible, but probable, no.



Chris is doing just fine, talked to him a couple of months ago.
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 02:54:32 PM »

Would  anyone have proof that Dickerson "always" had that shape to his elbows? A personal account would be nice. Rather than making unfounded statements. You will see some  BB'ers with those extended elbow bones, from time to time. As some with extra heavy brows and jaw bone lines. Even Stevie Wonder could tell that Dickerson has/had unnatural bone growth, with those jutting out elbows. Doubt if this is a genetic trait. But than again, who really knows if Dickerson was pure as the driven snow.
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 02:55:08 PM »

Would  anyone have proof that Dickerson "always" had that shape to his elbows? A personal account would be nice. Rather than making unfounded statements. You will see some  BB'ers with those extended elbow bones, from time to time. As some with extra heavy brows and jaw bone lines. Even Stevie Wonder could tell that Dickerson has/had unnatural bone growth, with those jutting out elbows. Doubt if this is a genetic trait. But than again, who really knows if Dickerson was pure as the driven snow.

The burden is on the acuser, genius. The one always proferring illogical, unfounded crap like this with little basis in fact. Substantiate the accusations or STFU.

That other pic looks morphed; it didn't occur to "JPM" because he's not up on what that is. Provide other pics like it to substantiate it's veracity.

It's clear from all of the above pics that his elbows always had that shape, it's just more exaggerted in that one shot.

Also post pics of other pros that have this afflication, since it comes from GH supposedly. Roll Eyes



* cd157.jpg (31.11 KB, 430x709 - viewed 1385 times.)
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 03:41:01 PM »

Another personal attack, I'm shocked. But than again, your so easy to bait.

 Have any pre BB'ing days before Dickerson took up training? Any family photos supporting the extended elbows as genetic traits? If making such a expert remark, I'm sure among your thousands of pic of naked male bodies, you must have something of other BB'ers with these deformed extra growth bones. Possible from GH or other drug abuse. Now you just go ahead and look them up for all of us, like a good fellow.
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 10:15:05 PM »

I posted this on Ironage, and due to their 'glorify the old days and frown upon extensive talk of steroid use in that period' policy, my thread was locked. Which I understand and respect, since its their policy, and the members there aprove.
However, my q. remains unanswered, can anyone enlighten? :

"Dickerson achieved fantastic conditioning and was able to get into shape in record time, from what I hear, also clearing house in early 80's winning Grand Prix's, Mr O, etc. I heard his "secret" was a compound much like Drive which accentuated and made other aas more receptive by his physique. Can anyone around then, or familiar, elaborate?
Man was way ahead of his time(conditioning, polished pro), obviously gifted with certain genes, but also one of hardest trainers(intensity) around, I believe. Another very inspirational physique which was beyond belief for time was Zane!"



Interesting question and since so much time has passed and the key individual responsible for Chris Dickerson’s Mr. Olympia win has passed away I can tell you this.

I was under the care of Dr. Robert Kerr, from San Gabriel California in the early and mid 80s. Dr. Kerr, known as the steroid guru in the 1980s, was extremely knowledgeable regarding performance-enhancing drugs to include GH. Dr. Kerr worked and advised with many pro bodybuilders and athletes regarding performance drug use as well as wrote many papers and articles pertaining to these type medicines. Dr. Kerr was one of the first Doctors working with GH and athletic performance.

The way you became a patient was to write Dr. Kerr a letter describing your current physical state, your diet, how you trained and what you wanted to accomplish. If he decided to take you as a patient, an appointment would be set up, which lasted approximately one hour of which was spent evaluating you physical structure, etc. Dr. Kerr would then prescribe that medicine or medicines he felt would help you reach your goals. He required follow-up blood tests and office visits every three months for continued evaluation.

Sorry I took the long way to get to your questions- After one of my visits Dr. Kerr in  late 1982 he described in detail what drugs he had put Chris Dickerson on to win the Olympia. This included the drugs that were used to gain size and bulk up to the drugs that were used to get into contest condition. Somewhere I have this all written down in one of my journals, which I will try to locate.

In any event, anyone that worked out in World gym during this time frame (and Kieth-Onlyme was there) can attest to the fact the Chris Dickerson trained with extremely light weights. Most of us could not believe that shape he was attaining based on the light weights he was using.

I guess that having the best sport performance doctor on your side plus good genetics couldn’t hurt either… 


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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 11:10:00 PM »

Chris was a great bodybuilder, but got many tears in his carreer.  The tri, bi and pec were torn.

The elbow and gh thing is ridiculous.  It is most likely due to damage and strain of the tendon/ligaments in the elbow and subsequent Bura sac inflammation.

I wrestle and the first 2 months training I couldn't find elbow pads (i was in a hick town).  My elbows looked twice as bad as Chris' do in that pix.  If you go back to the days wrestlers didn't wear elbow pads while training you can see the same thing in many guys....especially the ones with damage such as jimmy superfly snuka. 
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 02:22:42 AM »


Interesting question and since so much time has passed and the key individual responsible for Chris Dickerson’s Mr. Olympia win has passed away I can tell you this.

I was under the care of Dr. Robert Kerr, from San Gabriel California in the early and mid 80s. Dr. Kerr, known as the steroid guru in the 1980s, was extremely knowledgeable regarding performance-enhancing drugs to include GH. Dr. Kerr worked and advised with many pro bodybuilders and athletes regarding performance drug use as well as wrote many papers and articles pertaining to these type medicines. Dr. Kerr was one of the first Doctors working with GH and athletic performance.

The way you became a patient was to write Dr. Kerr a letter describing your current physical state, your diet, how you trained and what you wanted to accomplish. If he decided to take you as a patient, an appointment would be set up, which lasted approximately one hour of which was spent evaluating you physical structure, etc. Dr. Kerr would then prescribe that medicine or medicines he felt would help you reach your goals. He required follow-up blood tests and office visits every three months for continued evaluation.

Sorry I took the long way to get to your questions- After one of my visits Dr. Kerr in  late 1982 he described in detail what drugs he had put Chris Dickerson on to win the Olympia. This included the drugs that were used to gain size and bulk up to the drugs that were used to get into contest condition. Somewhere I have this all written down in one of my journals, which I will try to locate.

In any event, anyone that worked out in World gym during this time frame (and Kieth-Onlyme was there) can attest to the fact the Chris Dickerson trained with extremely light weights. Most of us could not believe that shape he was attaining based on the light weights he was using.

I guess that having the best sport performance doctor on your side plus good genetics couldn’t hurt either… 




Thanks pkaz, great reply, I was expecting speculation, and lots of elbow jabs in the ribs, but you have actual accounts of what he was on from the Doc's mouth...

The fact he trained light, was that high-rep, intense, no rest stuff, or Dillet/Wheeler kind of training?
I believe the elbow thing as leagbreaker said, could very well be scar tissue build-up, as well as a genetic trait. It did develop late into his career, and he was older, but, who knows gh could have helped it along.

Wasnt Platz the individual singled out as taking gh back in day, a "leader" in the use of it?
Also, Boyer Coe, this guy got better with age, any stories on him(not ab training routine stories)?
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2007, 10:25:06 AM »

Thanks pkaz, great reply, I was expecting speculation, and lots of elbow jabs in the ribs, but you have actual accounts of what he was on from the Doc's mouth...

The fact he trained light, was that high-rep, intense, no rest stuff, or Dillet/Wheeler kind of training?
I believe the elbow thing as leagbreaker said, could very well be scar tissue build-up, as well as a genetic trait. It did develop late into his career, and he was older, but, who knows gh could have helped it along.

Wasnt Platz the individual singled out as taking gh back in day, a "leader" in the use of it?
Also, Boyer Coe, this guy got better with age, any stories on him(not ab training routine stories)?



That was 8 to 12 reps, moderate weight and little rest between sets.

My understanding was his elbow problem was calcium deposits. GH was not as prevalent as it is today and historically synthetic human growth hormone didn’t t hit the market until 1981-prior to that it was cadaver-G, which proved to be very dangerous. The point is that some athletes used both but real cadaver-GH was not that easy to get. Dr. Kerr was probable one of the top doctors working with GH in the 80s and did prescribe it to his patients; however most were using various stacks of pharmaceutical grade steroids from America and/or Europe.

Everyone assumed Platz was on very high doses of GH primarily due to his facial features. I am not sure that is correct. Platz has been very open regarding his steroid use in the past and contrary to what some believe the doses then were nothing like today. I had the opportunity to work out and get to know some of the top guys back then and what they were using and it was not in the realm of crazy. And it was generally not year round.

Tom Platz was one of the hardest trainers I ever witnessed. I personally witnessed Platz squat 225 for 10 straight minutes taking an occasion moment to catch his breath. This was not because of steroids or GH, as all pros were using, this was because he was Platz. I was spotting Platz while he was doing leg raises one day were I held his legs down and he tried to raise them. This went on for five minutes each set.

I never met or knew anything about Boyer Coe so I cannot comment.


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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2007, 10:52:21 AM »

I know guys who don't even lift have elbows like that.  I think back then they got GH from the Rhesus Monkey.  Not sure.
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2007, 10:05:49 PM »

Has anyone ever written an article on the "monkey and cadaver" roid sources? It would make for some darn good reading. I was somewhat up to date on the subject way back in my day but I've managed to forget most of the details.

I do recall that the monkey roid source resided in Florida someplace, but I sure can't recall who was doing the cadaver research.

Anyone got the facts?

DIckerson owned a gym once in West Hollywood. It was a small place on Santa Monica Blvd if I recall correctly.

And Dr Kerr was credited in public many times for creating national bodybuilding champions.

And as to "lifitng heavy weights" back then, most bodybuilders lifted just enough wt. to get three to four sets of 8 to 12 reps. It was the "odd-lifters" who concentrated on the heavy stuff. Guys like Bill "Peanuts" West, George Frenn, and Pat Casey, etc. Most of the competitive bodybuilders would lift heavy on rare occasions in an attempt to show off especially if someone was in the gym with a camera.

Needless to say, things changed; but that's how it used to be back then.
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2007, 01:02:36 AM »

DIckerson owned a gym once in West Hollywood. It was a small place on Santa Monica Blvd if
And as to "lifitng heavy weights" back then, most bodybuilders lifted just enough wt. to get three to four sets of 8 to 12 reps.
Needless to say, things changed; but that's how it used to be back then.

Seems to have been effective for them.

They also had their share of injuries, though.
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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2007, 07:42:07 AM »

Ludicrous speculation-growth hormone based on the shape of his elbows? bwhahahaahahahh

Really? Speculation? Take a look at these pics. Elbows don't grow like this when you're already in your 20's/30's/40's.

BEFORE:


STARTING:


AFTER:
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2007, 07:48:01 AM »

Here's the progression:


* Dickerson_Elbows.JPG (33.06 KB, 758x275 - viewed 1454 times.)
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Figo
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2007, 09:00:59 AM »

Quite some development there, for sure.
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2007, 12:55:30 PM »

You guys are funny thinking the elbow thing is from steroids or anything else.
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2007, 11:52:01 PM »

I agree with theory of scar tissue/calcification along with age. Some of the Masters pics are even more prominent due to much smaller arms, making the elbows appear bigger yet.
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2007, 09:25:45 AM »

Good example of internet speculation:

-That pic could've easily been morphed; both the elbow and muscle shape looks like something that's been digitally altered. Again, where are the other shots like that to corroborate this idle speculation?

-He always had that general shape to the elbows, predating any GH use.

-If GH-related, you can be sure that it would be seen with other bodybuilders. Where is it?

-He's old school and sensible; if he took GH Bill Pearl and others probably did too. Do you believe that? Anything's possible, but probable, no.



Chris is doing just fine, talked to him a couple of months ago.

After you read this guys take on bodybuilding history Roll Eyes, you need to know the facts.

FACT . . . Calcium deposits on elbows.

The Beef
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