Am I overtraining?

[overmannr]

I have great energy but I am just not getting very much stronger

my split is
Day 1 chest
Day 2 Legs (squats and lunges)
Day 3 back
Day 4 off
Day 5 Shoulders
Day 6 Legs (kicks and very high reps of squats- 1 hour cardio workout)
Day 7 arms
Day 8 off

I always thought this was the absolute perfect split. Nothing eats into anything and I always feel fresh. So much so that I have no problem doing ten or twenty minutes of cardio once or twice a day or even a quick circuit depending on if I am trying to gain or lose weight.

I was reading a book on what all the splits are of dozens of pros and I am shocked that no one trains like I do. Am I missing something? I don't feel like I am overtraining but I suppose strength is my "weak" point.

[Bluto]

I can't tell from that list of bodyparts, if you would gain strength or not has more to do with no of sets, reps, rest between sets, intensity and exercise selection...

[Hedgehog]

I have great energy but I am just not getting very much stronger

my split is
Day 1 chest
Day 2 Legs (squats and lunges)
Day 3 back
Day 4 off
Day 5 Shoulders
Day 6 Legs (kicks and very high reps of squats- 1 hour cardio workout)
Day 7 arms
Day 8 off

I always thought this was the absolute perfect split. Nothing eats into anything and I always feel fresh. So much so that I have no problem doing ten or twenty minutes of cardio once or twice a day or even a quick circuit depending on if I am trying to gain or lose weight.

I was reading a book on what all the splits are of dozens of pros and I am shocked that no one trains like I do. Am I missing something? I don't feel like I am overtraining but I suppose strength is my "weak" point.

I would suggest you to do something like this instead:

Day 1 chest/back
Day 2 off
Day 3 legs
Day 4 off
Day 5 Shoulders/arms
Day 6 off
Day 7 cardio

Also, look at it as a two-week layout. On week one you train as heavy as you can, on all excersises. On week two, you back off the weights maybe 10-20%. IMPORTANT: Don't go up in reps on your lighter week. Just train a little lighter, but with the same repetitions and sets. Try to keep in mind you will go for PB's next week.

-Hedge

[pumpster]

You're only hitting each muscle once a week, so overtraining's unlikely. Just try other programs for a change of pace, including a 3 day split followed by a rest day and repeat.

[thewickedtruth]

You're only hitting each muscle once a week, so overtraining's unlikely. Try other programs including a 3 day split followed by a rest day and repeat.

That's what alot of us here are doing with great results...or even 4 on and one off.

chest,tri's
back, bi's
legs
shoulders
off
repeat



I'm doing...
chest and tri's with a single shoulder exercise
legs, traps, calves, and forearms
back, bi's and a single shoulder exercise
off
repeat AND LOVING IT!

[Redwingenator]

I have great energy but I am just not getting very much stronger

my split is
Day 1 chest
Day 2 Legs (squats and lunges)
Day 3 back
Day 4 off
Day 5 Shoulders
Day 6 Legs (kicks and very high reps of squats- 1 hour cardio workout)
Day 7 arms
Day 8 off

Overtraining can occur from not getting enough rest between workouts, or doing too much when you go into the gym.  Doing too much in the gym can be caused from doing way too many sets, or too much intensity (an example would be doing 4 drop-sets each of Bench, Shoulder Press, Dips, Triceps Pushdowns.)  Good luck!

[thewickedtruth]

Overtraining can occur from not getting enough rest between workouts, or doing too much when you go into the gym.  Doing too much in the gym can be caused from doing way too many sets, or too much intensity (an example would be doing 4 drop-sets each of Bench, Shoulder Press, Dips, Triceps Pushdowns.)  Good luck!

Right on bro..


GIVE US A MORE INDEPTH LOOK AT YOUR SITUATION SO WE CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH A BETTER ANSWER THAT WILL HELP YOU FURTHER! 

[triple_pickle]

are you undereating and/or not getting enough sleep?

[overmannr]

I am thinking now that I have just been kinda self conscious.  I really am a big solid guy who gets descent results. I just noticed my split did not look like the pros but if there is nothing inherently wrong with it than I will keep it.

As for those who recommended new splits I will say this: I am not opposed to a new split but this is something that is of very extreme importance to me and I will not alter it to something new without a very thorough understanding of the benefits. I am especially wary of mixing workouts as each body part is going to suffer. I hope that if I have extra energy I can use it on my chest and not my triceps

As for more specifics I am presently doing 12- 16 sets (more often just 12) per bodypart. My first two exercises are four sets as they are bigger exercises (bench and incline for chest, squat and sumoSquats for legs etc) and two or three sets of lighter exercises.

Not too long ago I was doing six sets of four exercises most of which were duel sets, super sets, drop sets or some sort of big bonus set. I am trying to calm down for a while. I eat very clean and take all the hot supplements. I sleep well and match my protein to just over my body weight (I am 230 lbs at 6'3) I take in loads of tuna, eggs, broccoli and oatmeal each day and have two huge protein shakes with creatine, glutamine, whey, soy (isolated protein). I take vitamins and extra C calcium magnesium, zinc, Iron, glucosamine, fish oil and so forth.

I think I am getting stronger but with the long history of overtraining and the whole "being the only one on my split" thing I think I am probably just worrying myself needlessly.

[Hedgehog]

I am thinking now that I have just been kinda self conscious.  I really am a big solid guy who gets descent results. I just noticed my split did not look like the pros but if there is nothing inherently wrong with it than I will keep it.

As for those who recommended new splits I will say this: I am not opposed to a new split but this is something that is of very extreme importance to me and I will not alter it to something new without a very thorough understanding of the benefits. I am especially wary of mixing workouts as each body part is going to suffer. I hope that if I have extra energy I can use it on my chest and not my triceps

As for more specifics I am presently doing 12- 16 sets (more often just 12) per bodypart. My first two exercises are four sets as they are bigger exercises (bench and incline for chest, squat and sumoSquats for legs etc) and two or three sets of lighter exercises.

Not too long ago I was doing six sets of four exercises most of which were duel sets, super sets, drop sets or some sort of big bonus set. I am trying to calm down for a while. I eat very clean and take all the hot supplements. I sleep well and match my protein to just over my body weight (I am 230 lbs at 6'3) I take in loads of tuna, eggs, broccoli and oatmeal each day and have two huge protein shakes with creatine, glutamine, whey, soy (isolated protein). I take vitamins and extra C calcium magnesium, zinc, Iron, glucosamine, fish oil and so forth.

I think I am getting stronger but with the long history of overtraining and the whole "being the only one on my split" thing I think I am probably just worrying myself needlessly.

The reason why I recommended a different split, was to give you rest days between the workouts. IMO, it's easier to train hard when you're not in the gym every day. You will rest, both mentally and physically.

But stay with your current layout, and only switch if you get stuck, then you may want to try my suggestion, or something else.

Slightly side note:
You seem to have a solid grip on training and nutrition as a whole, perhaps you may be eating too much protein post workout ("huge protein shakes")?

Remember, post workout, you need fast carbs, and moderate amount of protein, say 120-150 grams of carbs and 15-25 grams of quality protein. Any bigger amount of protein will only slow down the carb uptake post workout.

[overmannr]

The last point about excess protein is very interesting. my most common post workout meal is 5-8 eggs (some yolks taken out) with lots of meats and vegetables like spinach corn tomatoes and peppers or whatever sounds good.

My morning shake has between 30 and 70 grams of protein.

Exactly what are the consequences of this excess protein. Is there a source you would have me read- I am pretty good about reading quality material if you know something I don't

[Hedgehog]

The last point about excess protein is very interesting. my most common post workout meal is 5-8 eggs (some yolks taken out) with lots of meats and vegetables like spinach corn tomatoes and peppers or whatever sounds good.

My morning shake has between 30 and 70 grams of protein.

Exactly what are the consequences of this excess protein. Is there a source you would have me read- I am pretty good about reading quality material if you know something I don't

Yes.

Read Ron Maughan's "Sports Nutrition".

But I was pointing out the importance of carb/protein ratio postworkout.

The rest of the day, you could probably go a little higher on the protein, and should definitely go higher on the (healthy) fats.

Such as olive oil, flax seed oil, et al.

Generally, a carb-fat-protein ratio for an athlete should look like this: 50% Carbs/30%fats/20%protein

And that's pretty high in protein. You could go lower with the protein, 10-15%, and higher with the carbs.

Just a general idea of the nutritional guidelines that real nutritionists will give you.

Unlike the bullshit that supplement companies will feed you.

And another advice: drop any multivitamin supplement you're eating. Chances are you're getting overloaded on fat solulable vits.

Instead: Make sure you're eating a variety of veggies, nuts and fruits.

-Hedge

[overmannr]

I am going to find this book and when I read it I will let you know what I think.

Thanks

[pumpster]

As for those who recommended new splits I will say this: I am not opposed to a new split but this is something that is of very extreme importance to me and I will not alter it to something new without a very thorough understanding of the benefits. I am especially wary of mixing workouts as each body part is going to suffer. I hope that if I have extra energy I can use it on my chest and not my triceps

First of all, you never bothered to thank anyone who took the time to try to help you, excepting the book; i think it's apropos.

Secondly, forget the "extreme importance" seriousness and be open to change if you're posting. There's some contradiction in your posts-you express concerns, ask for advice then suggest you're not very flexible about trying new things.

You don't have to have a "thorough understanding", just jump and try the water when it's time, then ascertain the program's efficacy after a decent amount of time in use. You can do that now or later when it's time for a change, but now you have some possibilities to address your concerns.

[overmannr]

First off, Pumpster, you are absolutely correct that I was very rude to neglect thanking those people who thought of my situation and gave me information from their own experience and expertise which is valuable and hard to come by. Thank you all.

I do not mean to seem inflexible or even skeptical- I merely feel terribly uncomfortable making huge changes to my routine without a very clear reason. Seriously, anyone can look at someone elses routine and say "try this" - it might not be in tune with my goals and more importantly, to me anyways, it might be based entirely on principles with which I totally disagree. If I told you to stop doing legs and instead do a running routine each day no matter how bad ass my legs were you would want to ask some serious questions first.

I do not want to kid anyone and say that I know everything about this but I do try very hard to understand why I do everything that I do.

Lastly, I was not really looking for a new routine as much as trying to get a better understanding of split principles. I had noticed very suddenly that my routine was not listed anywhere in a long list of routines of successful bodybuilders and I wanted to run it by someone. When the time comes to change it up again I will use the knowledge I have at that time on how best to train, of my schedule and of my own capacity to design something. It is my own fault for that lack of communication.

Again, I apologize if I came off as rude before-  You are a very knowledgeable and very giving group and I feel extremely fortunate to have people like you all to use as a resource. As a side note I do feel helped and will most likely include more rest days in a denser routine starting in September.

[thewickedtruth]

First off, Pumpster, you are absolutely correct that I was very rude to neglect thanking those people who thought of my situation and gave me information from their own experience and expertise which is valuable and hard to come by. Thank you all.

I do not mean to seem inflexible or even skeptical- I merely feel terribly uncomfortable making huge changes to my routine without a very clear reason. Seriously, anyone can look at someone elses routine and say "try this" - it might not be in tune with my goals and more importantly, to me anyways, it might be based entirely on principles with which I totally disagree. If I told you to stop doing legs and instead do a running routine each day no matter how bad ass my legs were you would want to ask some serious questions first.

I do not want to kid anyone and say that I know everything about this but I do try very hard to understand why I do everything that I do.

Lastly, I was not really looking for a new routine as much as trying to get a better understanding of split principles. I had noticed very suddenly that my routine was not listed anywhere in a long list of routines of successful bodybuilders and I wanted to run it by someone. When the time comes to change it up again I will use the knowledge I have at that time on how best to train, of my schedule and of my own capacity to design something. It is my own fault for that lack of communication.

Again, I apologize if I came off as rude before-  You are a very knowledgeable and very giving group and I feel extremely fortunate to have people like you all to use as a resource. As a side note I do feel helped and will most likely include more rest days in a denser routine starting in September.

well does your split situation work for you? If so, who cares wha'ts in a book or what's listed here. If NOT and you haven't seen any growth or progress in quite some time, MAYBE a complete change is what you need? First, relist your goals if you haven't already. Think about what it's going to take to get you there and what got you where you were in the first place. That's what I had to do. My curren routine (listed in teh training section) is completely different from what it used to be and it was the change that I needed to progress further.