Form on bent over rows

[ryu007]

I love doing bent over rows, and recently I've been experimenting with the different forms to do them. The traditional way, which is using an overhand grip wider than shoulder width. And the new way I've been doing them for the past 2 weeks with an underhand grip close to my body. My question, what's the real difference? I know the wider I go the more my lats will be working. But I feel incredible when I do them underhanded.

[wes]

Underhand grip rows if pulling to the waist will work lower lats more...........if you go wider,you work more inner/upper back.

[pumpster]

IMO it's better not to try to suggest to you what each grip will do, even though you want an answer. You have to try each type of grip and decide for yourself where it's hitting you. Don't make assumptions for example that wider grips hit the lats more. Do some sets of 12-15 reps with good intensity, and you'll more feel more obviously where each is hitting the muscles.

This is another reason to try alternative grips with BB rows, or other exercises. Not only are alternative exercises better IMO in terms of effectiveness AND back strain, they can offer different grips that hit different angles, moreso than BB rows. Examples: T-bar row, back-supported T-bar row, hammer rows, one-arm DB rows using different grips at different angles.

[Cap]

Dorian Yates: Underhanded BB rows until he tore his bicep.  Also used DB rows/one arm Hammer Strength row.  Arguably the thickest lats in BBing.  Said he liked Underhand BB rows for the longer stretch and contraction.

Ronnie Coleman:  Overhand BB rows are his favorite  back move.  Also uses T-Bar rows and DB rows.  Could go either way with Yates (do not want that discussion here). 

Both stand more upright when doing all their rows.  Obviously both are good but there is caution needed when doing Underhanded rows, especially if you heave the weight and going super strict like Yates can also present problems. 

One personal note I can throw in is that a super wide grip tends to hit rear delts and inner back more than lats, especially if you have longer limbs. 

[pobrecito]

There's three major types of barbell rows:

-Yates row
-Coleman row
-Old School barbell row

I would rate the old school barbell row as the least effective of the three. This is where you bend over to a true 90 degrees and row the bar up, often standing on a bench. The Coleman row is medium grip overhand row at about 70 degrees to perpendicular, often using a swift movement generating a lot of momentum. The Yates row is a closer grip, underhand row at 70 degrees where the pull is much more isolated, with no body movement.

Overall, I'd rate the Coleman and Yates row equally effective. Coleman's style allows for more weight, but Yates' style is more strict. That being said, Yates style is more  conducive to a bicep tear, so be careful with that.

Overall, the most important thing to remember when doing a barbell row, or any row for that matter, is that the spine must be arched back in order for the lats to fully contract.

[pumpster]

One personal note I can throw in is that a super wide grip tends to hit rear delts and inner back more than lats, especially if you have longer limbs. 

Exactly why it's better not to make any assumptions which grips work which muscles, and just experiment, decide for yourself. Sometimes a medium grip's as good or better for lats as one example.

[BigAlski]

I do 2 types myself.  The first 3-4 sets are reverse grip on a bench (standing but bent low) and the bar goes to the laces, the back is pretty much horizontal.  My overhand then are for more power, back about 45deg.  The key with me though is to stand all the way up first and tension the lower back then lower myself while tensing into the row position.  This way if I try to pull with my back I lose barspeed and the rep fails or is incomplete.  Then when my lower back is pre-tensioned on overhand I vary the difficulty by slight hip angle changes, measuring where the bar goes at the bottom of the motion below my knee (instead of letting the back and shoulders slump to shorten the ROM).

[ryu007]

All great input. Thanks guys. I've been doing the overhand for almost 2 months now and it always killed my back (SS w/ one arm DB row). I switched over to the underhand form just 2 weeks ago and I'm getting just about the same burn if not more than the overhand. Maybe it's because I just switched up the routine. Either way, think I'm gonna keep going back and forth with forms to keep my body guessing.

[canadian_husker]

All great input. Thanks guys. I've been doing the overhand for almost 2 months now and it always killed my back (SS w/ one arm DB row). I switched over to the underhand form just 2 weeks ago and I'm getting just about the same burn if not more than the overhand. Maybe it's because I just switched up the routine. Either way, think I'm gonna keep going back and forth with forms to keep my body guessing.

are you pulling the same weight underhand as over hand?

[The Squadfather]

try using the EZ curl bar for the underhand grip rows, the hands are in a much stronger pulling position and it makes the movement more comfortable and safer and like Pumpster said experiment with different bars and grips like the ez bar, the tricep bar with the vertical handles, db's, t bars, chest supported t bars, cambered bars, etc.

[ryu007]

are you pulling the same weight underhand as over hand?

Now that you mention, I can do noticeably more weight underhand as opposed to over. Could that be because biceps do some more work? As far as EZ curl bars go, should I do it with a close grip or wide?

[thewickedtruth]

I go underhanded grip a little just a little outside shoulder width, bend over at a 45* angle with a slight bend at the knees and row as if I was being pulled by strings by my elbows. If you feel it in your lower back TOO much, which you will with heavier weights, take some of the angle away or drop the weight. When performed properly, this baby will blow your back up! Watch jay cutler's back day on one of the vids in the vid forum. THAT is how you do good rows.

[thewickedtruth]

Now that you mention, I can do noticeably more weight underhand as opposed to over. Could that be because biceps do some more work? As far as EZ curl bars go, should I do it with a close grip or wide?

This is correct. Just like when you do underhanded pulldowns vs. doing wide grip pull downs. I can only do 275 on over handed rows and can easily hit reps with 315 underhanded. The MAIN reason I go underhand? BECAUSE I FEEL A STRONGER CONTRACTION IN MY BACK THAT WAY.

[canadian_husker]

This is correct. Just like when you do underhanded pulldowns vs. doing wide grip pull downs. I can only do 275 on over handed rows and can easily hit reps with 315 underhanded. The MAIN reason I go underhand? BECAUSE I FEEL A STRONGER CONTRACTION IN MY BACK THAT WAY.

interesting. i've been doing overhand rows and the other day i decided to give underhand a set in the middle of a workout, but it felt very awkward and i didn't get my usual 8 reps. maybe i need to drop the weight and get used to the motion. if it works the back as well as you guys say it does then maybe i should be adding them in

[thewickedtruth]

interesting. i've been doing overhand rows and the other day i decided to give underhand a set in the middle of a workout, but it felt very awkward and i didn't get my usual 8 reps. maybe i need to drop the weight and get used to the motion. if it works the back as well as you guys say it does then maybe i should be adding them in

I would highly recommend them. I wish I'd started doing them a loooooooooong time ago. Just like any new exercise, it takes some getting used to. Once you get it worked in and get that muscle feel that you're looking for during the exercise, you'll blow up.

[canadian_husker]

a somewhat related question......

where do you guys put deadlifts in your workout? beginning? end? i usually do some sort of pulldown to get a pump going then do barbell rows followed by deadlifts. maybe i am doing too many sets of barbell rows(my favorite exercise) but i don't think i am getting the most out of my deadlifts because i am a little fatigued from the barbell rows

any suggestions?? thanks

[thewickedtruth]

a somewhat related question......

where do you guys put deadlifts in your workout? beginning? end? i usually do some sort of pulldown to get a pump going then do barbell rows followed by deadlifts. maybe i am doing too many sets of barbell rows(my favorite exercise) but i don't think i am getting the most out of my deadlifts because i am a little fatigued from the barbell rows

any suggestions?? thanks

I do mine at the end of leg day. That way I can get what I need for hams AND back work BUT allows me to focus on OTHER exercises during back day and STILL get deads in during the week.

[Saxon]

a somewhat related question......

where do you guys put deadlifts in your workout? beginning? end? i usually do some sort of pulldown to get a pump going then do barbell rows followed by deadlifts. maybe i am doing too many sets of barbell rows(my favorite exercise) but i don't think i am getting the most out of my deadlifts because i am a little fatigued from the barbell rows

any suggestions?? thanks

I usually do deadlifts at the start of my back workout, but that is more to do with the fact that I am primarily training for rugby and more interested in strength in this movement.  But the past couple of weeks I've been doing deadlifts at the end of my back workout.  There isn't much difference in terms of strength maybe 10 kilos at the very most.

[BigAlski]

Right now I am doing Stifflegs first on back day.  Then 2 types of squats, followed by deadlifts from the floor (conventional).

[thewickedtruth]

Right now I am doing Stifflegs first on back day.  Then 2 types of squats, followed by deadlifts from the floor (conventional).

on BACK day?

[The Squadfather]

a somewhat related question......

where do you guys put deadlifts in your workout? beginning? end? i usually do some sort of pulldown to get a pump going then do barbell rows followed by deadlifts. maybe i am doing too many sets of barbell rows(my favorite exercise) but i don't think i am getting the most out of my deadlifts because i am a little fatigued from the barbell rows

any suggestions?? thanks

i do them on a different day completely, i do some rowing and pulldown movements on Thursday and on Sunday i do a deadlift day where i pull off the floor one week and the next week i do pulls in the rack from the knees for 2 work sets and 2 work sets of stiff legged deads, deads and calves is all i do on this day.

[wes]

I only do rack deads these days and I start off with them on back day.......I usually do them heavy every other week or so, and do hypers or reverse hypers at other times just for variety, and to re-hab my back injury.

[jpm101]

Nice to see that SquadFather is doing partial rack pull's from the knee position. That's smoking, BUD.

[NoCalBbEr]

I do deads at the start of my back day.  I use the underhand barbell rows. I'm trying to work on my lower lats.  you should  think about what part of the back you need work on. or you can ALT. the different hand grip to work different angles on each workout

[canadian_husker]

what kind of rep ranges are you guys using for deads and barbell rows? and are you taking any of your sets to failure?