Libby sentenced to 30 months in prison

[Decker]

Dude, I saw the clip where her direct supervisor was on the stand and testified under oath that she was not in covert status...you can show me all of the reporters renditions you want, but I saw and heard it first hand......

I wasn't aware that the testimony of her 'boss' was dispositve of the case.  Where is this "testimony"?  B/c I don't believe you have access to grand jury testimony.  It's secret.

Her peers certainly admitted that she was covert all along. 

[headhuntersix]

Here is Joseph Wilson himself, talking to Wolf Blitzer on CNN today: "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity." Read that again. Now reflect on the fact that there has been an ongoing investigation FOR TWO YEARS conducted, we were breathlessly and rather constantly told in the weeks surrounding the initial controversy, on the basis that the White House and reporters OUTED A CLANDESTINE AGENT. Now we know. She wasn't. Not then.

[Dos Equis]

Here is Joseph Wilson himself, talking to Wolf Blitzer on CNN today: "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity." Read that again. Now reflect on the fact that there has been an ongoing investigation FOR TWO YEARS conducted, we were breathlessly and rather constantly told in the weeks surrounding the initial controversy, on the basis that the White House and reporters OUTED A CLANDESTINE AGENT. Now we know. She wasn't. Not then.

What the heck are they investigating then? 

[Straw Man]

Does it matter whether Plame was covert or not? 

The last time I checked it wasn't a crime to get a free blow job yet Clinton was convicted (impeached by the House) for lying under oath about this non-crime (and also was disbarred).

Personally, I believe she was covert but even if she was not the act of destroying a covert asset (Brewster Jennings was a CIA front company) to damage Wilson (who was proven correct in his claims regarding guy) is despicable

from march 13th of this year: 

During House hearings today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) announced that CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden recently told Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) that there was no doubt Victoria Plame Wilson was covert. Cummings — relaying what Waxman had told him — said that Gen. Hayden expressed clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.”

Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by Victoria Toensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, congressman.”

[Straw Man]

Here is Joseph Wilson himself, talking to Wolf Blitzer on CNN today: "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity." Read that again. Now reflect on the fact that there has been an ongoing investigation FOR TWO YEARS conducted, we were breathlessly and rather constantly told in the weeks surrounding the initial controversy, on the basis that the White House and reporters OUTED A CLANDESTINE AGENT. Now we know. She wasn't. Not then.

Wilson has explained that as soon as she was outed by Novak she was 'de facto' no longer covert

[Decker]

Here is Joseph Wilson himself, talking to Wolf Blitzer on CNN today: "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity." Read that again. Now reflect on the fact that there has been an ongoing investigation FOR TWO YEARS conducted, we were breathlessly and rather constantly told in the weeks surrounding the initial controversy, on the basis that the White House and reporters OUTED A CLANDESTINE AGENT. Now we know. She wasn't. Not then.

The link I provided states quite clearly that the CIA classified her as a covert spy.  

"Clandestine" means nothing.  The operative word is 'covert'.  She was covert.  

Here's a link to the applicable law:  
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00000421----000-.html  

Note that "covert" is the operative word and "clandestine" is nowhere to be found.

Even if Joe Wilson confused the two terms, which I don't think he did, his opinion is not relevant to the legal proceedings.  

[Dos Equis]

The link I provided states quite clearly that the CIA classified her as a covert spy.  

"Clandestine" means nothing.  The operative word is 'covert'.  She was covert.  

Here's a link to the applicable law:  
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sec_50_00000421----000-.html  

Note that "covert" is the operative word and "clandestine" is nowhere to be found.

Even if Joe Wilson confused the two terms, which I don't think he did, his opinion is not relevant to the legal proceedings.  

Why wasn't Novak prosecuted if he outed a covert agent? 

[headhuntersix]

I don't know..I mean he says he can't remember..whatever. They couldn't find anything big over this, unlike Sandy Burger.

[Straw Man]

from what I've read:

"Fitzgerald's decision had nothing to do with technical aspects of IIPA, but rather with its scienter requirements. That is, the leakers had to know that leaking Plame's name could be damaging, and Fitzgerald didn't think he had the evidence to make that case. That might have been especially true since the leaks seem to have been authorized at very high levels, something the leakers could have used in their defense at trial"

[Decker]

Why wasn't Novak prosecuted if he outed a covert agent? 

Read Straw Man's latest.  Knowledge in leaking is the key.

[The Enigma]

I doubt he serves time.  If he is allowed to remain free on bond pending his appeal, he'll get pardoned by Bush. 

Libby sentenced to 30 months in prison
Libby was convicted March 6 of four counts in a five-count indictment alleging perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to FBI investigators.

IMO, if you out a CIA spy, you should suffer the same fate as Saddam.

[The Enigma]

IMO, if you out a CIA spy, you should suffer the same fate as Saddam.

Our National Security depends on covert CIA spies.

Oh, like Bush really gives a sh*t.

[militarymuscle69]

Does it matter whether Plame was covert or not? 

The last time I checked it wasn't a crime to get a free blow job yet Clinton was convicted (impeached by the House) for lying under oath about this non-crime (and also was disbarred).

Personally, I believe she was covert but even if she was not the act of destroying a covert asset (Brewster Jennings was a CIA front company) to damage Wilson (who was proven correct in his claims regarding guy) is despicable

from march 13th of this year: 

During House hearings today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) announced that CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden recently told Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) that there was no doubt Victoria Plame Wilson was covert. Cummings — relaying what Waxman had told him — said that Gen. Hayden expressed clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.”

Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by Victoria Toensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, congressman.”

actually her full response was basically that once covert always covert...which in CIA buisness isn't true. If you aren't sent on a covert overseas mission for 5 years then you lose covert status.....you guys are taking things out of context to support your claims. Plain and simple she was covert at one time but was not covert at the time of the leak...

[Straw Man]

actually her full response was basically that once covert always covert...which in CIA buisness isn't true. If you aren't sent on a covert overseas mission for 5 years then you lose covert status.....you guys are taking things out of context to support your claims. Plain and simple she was covert at one time but was not covert at the time of the leak...

see the last paragragh of the post to which you are responding

Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by Victoria Toensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, congressman.”

[Dos Equis]

Read Straw Man's latest.  Knowledge in leaking is the key.

So who outed a covert CIA agent, besides Novak who didn't know she was "covert"?  I see a lot of smoke, but no fire. 

[Decker]

actually her full response was basically that once covert always covert...which in CIA buisness isn't true. If you aren't sent on a covert overseas mission for 5 years then you lose covert status.....you guys are taking things out of context to support your claims. Plain and simple she was covert at one time but was not covert at the time of the leak...

(4) The term “covert agent” means—
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or

Plame testified that she had undertaken overseas assignments in the five years before she was outed, meaning that even the narrow provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 would have been met in her case.

[Decker]

So who outed a covert CIA agent, besides Novak who didn't know she was "covert"?  I see a lot of smoke, but no fire. 

On June 23, 2003, LIBBY met with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. During this meeting . . . Libby informed her that [Joe] Wilson’s wife might work at the CIA.

Paragraph 17 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Miller again that Plame was a CIA agent on July 8, 2003.

Paragraph 21 of the Indictment describes Official A (Karl Rove) as confirming to Robert Novak that Palme was a CIA agent during the week prior to July 11, 2003 (presumably after July 6.)

Paragraph 23 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Matt Cooper that Plame was a CIA agent on July 12, 2003.

Paragraph 24 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Judith Miller again on July 12, 2003 that Plame was a CIA agent (apparently Judy Miller has a faulty memory and could not hold the thought in her head).

[Straw Man]

(4) The term “covert agent” means—
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or

Plame testified that she had undertaken overseas assignments in the five years before she was outed, meaning that even the narrow provisions of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 would have been met in her case.

Recently declassified CIA documents confirm that she was indeed covert at the time she was outed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/
WASHINGTON - An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July 2003.....The report says, "she traveled at least seven times to more than ten times."  When overseas Plame traveled undercover, "sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias -- but always using cover -- whether official or non-official (NOC) -- with no ostensible relationship to the CIA."

[militarymuscle69]

see the last paragragh of the post to which you are responding

that is what I am refering to...here is the rest:

Congressman, thank you for the opportunity. I know I’m here under oath, and I am here to say I was a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency. Just like a general is a general whether he is in the field in Iraq or Afghanistan, when he comes back to the Pentagon, he is still a general. In the same way, covert operations officers who are serving in the field, when they rotate back to a temporary assignment in Washington, they, too, are still covert.

But CIA protocal says you have to be sent on overseas covert missions at least every 5 years and she did not fulfill that...just becasue she went over seas doesn't mean she went covertly...

[Dos Equis]

On June 23, 2003, LIBBY met with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. During this meeting . . . Libby informed her that [Joe] Wilson’s wife might work at the CIA.

Paragraph 17 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Miller again that Plame was a CIA agent on July 8, 2003.

Paragraph 21 of the Indictment describes Official A (Karl Rove) as confirming to Robert Novak that Palme was a CIA agent during the week prior to July 11, 2003 (presumably after July 6.)

Paragraph 23 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Matt Cooper that Plame was a CIA agent on July 12, 2003.

Paragraph 24 of the Indictment describes Libby telling Judith Miller again on July 12, 2003 that Plame was a CIA agent (apparently Judy Miller has a faulty memory and could not hold the thought in her head).

O.K.  Then why wasn't he charged with outing a covert agent?  This seems kind of silly to me.  Remember that old Wendy's commercial?  "Where's the beef?"  

[Straw Man]

that is what I am refering to...here is the rest:

Congressman, thank you for the opportunity. I know I’m here under oath, and I am here to say I was a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency. Just like a general is a general whether he is in the field in Iraq or Afghanistan, when he comes back to the Pentagon, he is still a general. In the same way, covert operations officers who are serving in the field, when they rotate back to a temporary assignment in Washington, they, too, are still covert.

But CIA protocal says you have to be sent on overseas covert missions at least every 5 years and she did not fulfill that...just becasue she went over seas doesn't mean she went covertly...

newly released documents say otherwise

[Decker]

O.K.  Then why wasn't he charged with outing a covert agent?  This seems kind of silly to me.  Remember that old Wendy's commercial?  "Where's the beef?"  

Q: So why wasn't Libby charged with revealing Plame's identity as an undercover agent? Isn't that the more serious crime?

A: To do that, Fitzgerald would need to prove that Libby knew that Plame was a covert agent and that making the information public was a crime. Grand jury testimony in Libby's indictment suggests that he told investigators and grand jurors he did not understand that Plame's work status was classified.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-30-CIA-Q&A_x.htm

[The Coach]

I find it awfully suspicious that Libby's harsh sentence came only a day after the William Jefferson indictment, especially since there was no crime committed on Libby's part as the Attorneys were arguing.

[Decker]

I find it awfully suspicious that Libby's harsh sentence came only a day after the William Jefferson indictment, especially since there was no crime committed on Libby's part as the Attorneys were arguing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17479718/

Jurors convict Libby on four of five charges
Cheney’s ex-aide faces jail time in CIA leak case; sentencing set for June

You see conspiracy where none exists. 

The date of sentencing was chosen at the reading of the verdict.  Standard stuff.

[Dos Equis]

Q: So why wasn't Libby charged with revealing Plame's identity as an undercover agent? Isn't that the more serious crime?

A: To do that, Fitzgerald would need to prove that Libby knew that Plame was a covert agent and that making the information public was a crime. Grand jury testimony in Libby's indictment suggests that he told investigators and grand jurors he did not understand that Plame's work status was classified.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-30-CIA-Q&A_x.htm

Then who did it?