Republican Presidential Debate

[Colossus_500]

Not to open up a can of worms here......well maybe a little.....I agree with the points you made in both paragraphs. That's the current reality, but i see it as no different then the reality that existed in 1947 or whatever when Truman integrated blacks into the military (off hand i don't remember the exact year and maybe have the wrong president).  While race and sexual orientation are distinctly 2 different things the complaints by the military were very similar.   And what ended up happening?  They got over it and still maintained a cohesive fighting force.  Of course not without growing pains, but it worked out fine.

Something to think about though in your argument....how would "don't ask, don't tell" have worked in the situation back in the 40's?  I'm not saying don't let homosexuals serve, but "don't ask, don't tell" is the best solution that we have to date?  

[OzmO]

Something to think about though in your argument....how would "don't ask, don't tell" have worked in the situation back in the 40's?  I'm not saying don't let homosexuals serve, but "don't ask, don't tell" is the best solution that we have to date? 

Well, it's hard not to know if a person is black or not so i don't know what you are getting at there.  But I'm basing things on reality.  Reality is there are gays serving right now in the military with the full knowledge of those in it.  Of course they don;t flaunt the lifestyle but they know.   

[Dos Equis]

You don't have a problem with Romney's excessive flip-flopping on the issues?

He's flipped on abortion  http://conservativesagainstromney.com/2007/05/06/romney-flip-flops-during-gop-debate/

He's flopped on the Bin Laden issue (like Bush did)  http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000605.htm

He's flipped on his view of military service  http://www.eyeon08.com/2007/05/11/romney-panders-with-religion-and-military/

He's flopped on his party allegiance http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/24/romney_gave_three_contributions_to_democrats

He's flipped on campaign finance  http://mormonsagainstromney.blogspot.com/2007/02/romney-flip-flops-on-campaign-financing.html

He's flopped on immigration policy  http://www.democrats.org/a/2007/05/latest_ad_drive.php

He's flipped on gun control  http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/05/21/romney-is-ultimate-flip-flopper-peter-fenn/

He's flopped on his "hunting background"  http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/05/21/romney-is-ultimate-flip-flopper-peter-fenn/

These are not evolving position changes like with Kerry on the $87 billion vote.

This is out and out political grandstanding showing that Romney will say anything to become president.

No I don't have a problem with him changing his opinion or his views.  I've done it and continue to do so.  I change my mind all the time.   

[militarymuscle69]

My take..I hada gay soldier in Afghanistan...He came out hoping I would either send him home or make some remark that could get us in trouble. I told him point blank that he could gay it up as much as he wanted but that he was going to do his fucking job and we were not going to hold our tongues about saying fag or anything and that this was a combat invironment and suck it up. I told him that if he went super gay that we would ensure UCMJ charges were filed but if he just did his job he would be ensured that we would get him out as soon as we returened, which was the end of his enlistment. He would have stayed in the Service longer and lost his GI Bill. He went along and I had no issues with him. i don't want openly gay soldiers. I had more problems with 1 black female then i ever did with him..or any other race or orientation.

the most powerful person in the military is the black woman

[Dos Equis]

the most powerful person in the military is the black woman

How so?

[Decker]

No I don't have a problem with him changing his opinion or his views.  I've done it and continue to do so.  I change my mind all the time.   

Frankly, I don't care about a candidate's flipflopping either.  His current position is what matters.  

I just wanted to have some fun....  

Did you see through the flip-flopping accusations attributed to Kerry in '04?

[Dos Equis]

Frankly, I don't care about a candidate's flipflopping either.  His current position is what matters.  

I just wanted to have some fun....  

Did you see through the flip-flopping accusations attributed to Kerry in '04?

Don't recall?  Which accusations?

[Decker]

Don't recall?  Which accusations?

"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

[Dos Equis]

"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

Ah so.  That didn't bother me.  I was more focused on what he did to his fellow soldiers after he left Vietnam. 

[militarymuscle69]

How so?

because in the MEO community blacks and women are the most protected 2 classes...if you belong to both you can get away with murder and no one ever says anything to you

[Dos Equis]

because in the MEO community blacks and women are the most protected 2 classes...if you belong to both you can get away with murder and no one ever says anything to you

What's MEO? 

[Decker]

Ah so.  That didn't bother me.  I was more focused on what he did to his fellow soldiers after he left Vietnam. 

I understand.  You realize that the accusations of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were thoroughly discredited?

http://www.factcheck.org/article244.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/kerry.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

[Dos Equis]

I understand.  You realize that the accusations of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were thoroughly discredited?

http://www.factcheck.org/article244.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/kerry.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

I wasn't referring to Swift Boat.  I was referring to what he did after he returned.  Threw his fellow soldiers, including POWs, under the bus.  Watch the Stolen Honor documentary if you get the chance.  Hard to come away respecting the man after seeing what he did. 

http://stolenhonor.com/

[The Enigma]

Watched and listened to most of the debate (online).  Some thoughts:

- Better cast of characters overall than the Democrats. 


- They all ran away from Bush. 

This coming from a 25%er. Hahahahahahahaha

The only people NOT running from Bush are outcasts like BeachBum.

[Decker]

I wasn't referring to Swift Boat.  I was referring to what he did after he returned.  Threw his fellow soldiers, including POWs, under the bus.  Watch the Stolen Honor documentary if you get the chance.  Hard to come away respecting the man after seeing what he did. 

http://stolenhonor.com/

The link to enter the web site doesn't work.

So Kerry flip flopped on his comrades by asking the politicians to end what was and is viewed as an unjust/illegal war?

At the Dem Convention, there was a dozen or so of his fellow soldiers that spoke highly of him.

[BayGBM]

I never even considered that. 

 

[Dos Equis]

This coming from a 25%er. Hahahahahahahaha

The only people NOT running from Bush are outcasts like BeachBum.

   Dr. Strangelove with another thought-provoking comment.  You ought to just submit blank posts.  Wouldn't be much different than what you say everyday.  

[Dos Equis]

The link to enter the web site doesn't work.

So Kerry flip flopped on his comrades by asking the politicians to end what was and is viewed as an unjust/illegal war?

At the Dem Convention, there was a dozen or so of his fellow soldiers that spoke highly of him.

Works for me:  http://www.stolenhonor.com/

Actually, what Kerry did was accuse our boys of murder, etc. while some were being held as POWs.  The Vietnamese used Kerry's comments to interrogate our POWs.  Treacherous IMO. 

[Decker]

Works for me:  http://www.stolenhonor.com/

Actually, what Kerry did was accuse our boys of murder, etc. while some were being held as POWs.  The Vietnamese used Kerry's comments to interrogate our POWs.  Treacherous IMO. 

The 'enter site' button just is not working.  Oh well.  I would like to see those quotes you attribute to Kerry. 

[headhuntersix]

the most powerful person in the military is the black woman

Don't get me started..he's right.

[militarymuscle69]

What's MEO? 

Military Equal Oppurtunity

[Dos Equis]

The 'enter site' button just is not working.  Oh well.  I would like to see those quotes you attribute to Kerry. 

Click on the links to the left after you enter the site.

His comments (I believe to Congress) are well documented.  The Stolen Honor documentary focuses on interviews of the former POWs and their wives and the impact Kerry's comments had on them.  I called him a traitor after watching that documentary.  Powerful stuff.  

[Dos Equis]

Military Equal Oppurtunity

Thanks. 

[Decker]

Click on the links to the left after you enter the site.

His comments (I believe to Congress) are well documented.  The Stolen Honor documentary focuses on interviews of the former POWs and their wives and the impact Kerry's comments had on them.  I called him a traitor after watching that documentary.  Powerful stuff.  

Thanks.

So they are going after his 1971 testimony, some of which is found here:
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

I suggest you read that in its entirety and tell me that Kerry is doing anything but the honorable thing.  He saw what was going on in VN first hand and, as a conscientious human being, he had to voice his opposition to what he saw and what he learned of.

He certainly didn't lie in his testimony did he?

Disagree or agree with him but disparaging what he said as a deliberate shot at the troops is unfair and undeserved.

[Dos Equis]

Thanks.

So they are going after his 1971 testimony, some of which is found here:
http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

I suggest you read that in its entirety and tell me that Kerry is doing anything but the honorable thing.  He saw what was going on in VN first hand and, as a conscientious human being, he had to voice his opposition to what he saw and what he learned of.

He certainly didn't lie in his testimony did he?

Disagree or agree with him but disparaging what he said as a deliberate shot at the troops is unfair and undeserved.

What he did was dishonorable.  Assume everything he said was true.  That information was used to interrogate our POWs and jeopardized their lives.  I side with the POWs and their wives on this one.