Republican Presidential Debate

[Colossus_500]

Well, it's hard not to know if a person is black or not so i don't know what you are getting at there.  But I'm basing things on reality.  Reality is there are gays serving right now in the military with the full knowledge of those in it.  Of course they don;t flaunt the lifestyle but they know.   

that was my point. 

plus, it's just a hunch, but i'm guessing that there have always been homosexuals in the military whether we knew it or not.  so, the other point that i'm trying to make is that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy speaks directly to this notion. 

[Decker]

What he did was dishonorable.  Assume everything he said was true.  That information was used to interrogate our POWs and jeopardized their lives.  I side with the POWs and their wives on this one. 

I guess we will just disagree on the value judgment made here.

In my opinion, helped shut down the meat grinder in Viet Nam which mean fewer POWS.  If the enemy interrogator used his words to help break the spirit of the POW that is unfortunate but out of Kerry's hands.

The alternative of keeping your mouth shut while having your government run roughshod (including breaking the law) over its own people and foreign countries is very bad policy in a democratic republic.

[Decker]

I looked into "Stolen Honor" a bit and from what I've read of it, it is nothing more than a political hit piece produced by rightwing opponents of Kerry.

http://www.wesupportthevets.com/obrientoday.htm

Stolen Honor: the Moon Connection

http://www.roryoconnor.org/blog/2004/10/12/stolen-honor-the-moon-connection/

Stolen Honor - A Dishonor: Vietnam Veterans oppose Sinclair Broadcast smear even in reduced format

http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=462

Forget about the anti-Kerry fantasy film Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal. That comic attempt at a documentary is nothing more than a 42- minute "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"-style television commercial produced by a former longtime employee of Tom Ridge, the secretary of George W. Bush's Department of Homeland Security--an agency that pays daily homage to Orwell with everything from its name to those color-coded terrorism warnings.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=1912

Apparently the old saw about the anti-war movement's negative effect on the outcome of Viet Nam is being pinned on one man:  John Kerry.

More swiftboating crap that has nothing to do with what type of president Kerry would have been.

It is propaganda.

[Dos Equis]

I guess we will just disagree on the value judgment made here.

In my opinion, helped shut down the meat grinder in Viet Nam which mean fewer POWS.  If the enemy interrogator used his words to help break the spirit of the POW that is unfortunate but out of Kerry's hands.

The alternative of keeping your mouth shut while having your government run roughshod (including breaking the law) over its own people and foreign countries is very bad policy in a democratic republic.

The alternative is don't put the lives of your fellow soldiers and POWs in jeopardy. 

[Dos Equis]

I looked into "Stolen Honor" a bit and from what I've read of it, it is nothing more than a political hit piece produced by rightwing opponents of Kerry.

http://www.wesupportthevets.com/obrientoday.htm

Stolen Honor: the Moon Connection

http://www.roryoconnor.org/blog/2004/10/12/stolen-honor-the-moon-connection/

Stolen Honor - A Dishonor: Vietnam Veterans oppose Sinclair Broadcast smear even in reduced format

http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=462

Forget about the anti-Kerry fantasy film Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal. That comic attempt at a documentary is nothing more than a 42- minute "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"-style television commercial produced by a former longtime employee of Tom Ridge, the secretary of George W. Bush's Department of Homeland Security--an agency that pays daily homage to Orwell with everything from its name to those color-coded terrorism warnings.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?bid=1&pid=1912

Apparently the old saw about the anti-war movement's negative effect on the outcome of Viet Nam is being pinned on one man:  John Kerry.

More swiftboating crap that has nothing to do with what type of president Kerry would have been.

It is propaganda.

lol.  You found some liberal blogs, undoubtedly Kerry supporters, that criticize a documentary you haven't seen?  And now it's propaganda?  Puh-leaze.  I've heard Kerry's comments.  I heard the impact of those comments from the former POWs and their wives.  Those are facts, not propaganda. 

[Decker]

lol.  You found some liberal blogs, undoubtedly Kerry supporters, that criticize a documentary you haven't seen?  And now it's propaganda?  Puh-leaze.  I've heard Kerry's comments.  I heard the impact of those comments from the former POWs and their wives.  Those are facts, not propaganda. 

I've read quotes from the "documentary".

So the North Vietnamese said to these POWs that J"ohn Kerry says you guys are bad???"

Help me out here Beach Bum, I haven't seen the "documentary", I've just read excerpts.

I've also seen who orchestrated and financed the project.  Another Bush black bag special.

So Veterans Against The War is a liberal blog?

It's propaganda b/c it deals with opinions about a war that ended in 1975.

How do those opinions (slanted as they are) bear upon Kerry's ability to be president?

[Dos Equis]

I've read quotes from the "documentary".

So the North Vietnamese said to these POWs that J"ohn Kerry says you guys are bad???"

Help me out here Beach Bum, I haven't seen the "documentary", I've just read excerpts.

I've also seen who orchestrated and financed the project.  Another Bush black bag special.

So Veterans Against The War is a liberal blog?

It's propaganda b/c it deals with opinions about a war that ended in 1975.

How do those opinions (slanted as they are) bear upon Kerry's ability to be president?

They used transcripts from Kerry's statements to interrogate our POWs.  I heard that straight from former POWs.  You can assume they were lying.  I believe them, and their wives. 

This is important to me, because Kerry used his military service, and in particular his war record, in support of his presidential campaign.  When he came on stage at the Democrat convention, he saluted and said he was "reporting for duty."  Makes me want to puke knowing what did to his fellow soldiers.  I would have never respected him as commander in chief.

By using his military record to run for president, he opened the door to this kind of criticism.  It is fair game.   

[Decker]

They used transcripts from Kerry's statements to interrogate our POWs.  I heard that straight from former POWs.  You can assume they were lying.  I believe them, and their wives. 

This is important to me, because Kerry used his military service, and in particular his war record, in support of his presidential campaign.  When he came on stage at the Democrat convention, he saluted and said he was "reporting for duty."  Makes me want to puke knowing what did to his fellow soldiers.  I would have never respected him as commander in chief.

By using his military record to run for president, he opened the door to this kind of criticism.  It is fair game.   

I'm not accusing the POWs of lying.  Kerry's military record is impeccable.  His criticism of the war after he left the forces was something else.

We just fall on different sides of the fence on how Kerry's statements about the war are to be taken, that's all.

From your side, his testimony hurt POWs.

From my side, his testimony helped end the war.

[Dos Equis]

I'm not accusing the POWs of lying.  Kerry's military record is impeccable.  His criticism of the war after he left the forces was something else.

We just fall on different sides of the fence on how Kerry's statements about the war are to be taken, that's all.

From your side, his testimony hurt POWs.

From my side, his testimony helped end the war.

Understood.  I see your point.