Author Topic: No such thing as an Atheist?  (Read 20778 times)

Butterbean

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No such thing as an Atheist?
« on: June 07, 2007, 06:40:14 AM »
(Living Waters Publications www.christiananswers.net):



Why the Atheist doesn't exist
by Ray Comfort
 


There can be no such thing as an atheist. This is why: Let's imagine that you are a professing atheist. Here are two questions for you to answer: First, do you know the combined weight of all the sand on all the beaches of Hawaii? We can safely assume that you don't. This brings us to the second question: Do you know how many hairs are on the back of a fully-grown male Tibetan yak? Probably not. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that there are some things that you don't know. It is important to ask these questions because there are some people who think they know everything.

Let's say that you know an incredible one percent of all the knowledge in the universe. To know 100 percent, you would have to know everything. There wouldn't be a rock in the universe that you would not be intimately familiar with, or a grain of sand that you would not be aware of. You would know everything that has happened in history, from that which is common knowledge to the minor details of the secret love life of Napoleon's great-grandmother's black cat's fleas. You would know every hair of every head, and every thought of every heart. All history would be laid out before you, because you would be omniscient (all-knowing).

Bear in mind that one of the greatest scientists who ever lived, Thomas Edison, said, "We do not know a millionth of one percent about anything." Let me repeat: Let's say that you have an incredible one percent of all the knowledge in the universe. Would it be possible, in the ninety-nine percent of the knowledge that you haven't yet come across, that there might be ample evidence to prove the existence of God? If you are reasonable, you will be forced to admit that it is possible. Somewhere, in the knowledge you haven't yet discovered, there could be enough evidence to prove that God does exist.

Let's look at the same thought from another angle. If I were to make an absolute statement such as, "There is no gold in China," what is needed for that statement to be proven true? I need absolute or total knowledge. I need to have information that there is no gold in any rock, in any river, in the ground, in any store, in any ring, or in any mouth (gold filling) in China. If there is one speck of gold in China, then my statement is false and I have no basis for it. I need absolute knowledge before I can make an absolute statement of that nature. Conversely, for me to say, "There is gold in China," I don't need to have all knowledge. I just need to have seen a speck of gold in the country, and the statement is then true.

To say categorically, "There is no God," is to make an absolute statement. For the statement to be true, I must know for certain that there is no God in the entire universe. No human being has all knowledge. Therefore, none of us is able to truthfully make this assertion.

If you insist upon disbelief in God, what you must say is, "Having the limited knowledge I have at present, I believe that there is no God." Owing to a lack of knowledge on your part, you don't know if God exists. So, in the strict sense of the word, you cannot be an atheist. The only true qualifier for the title is the One who has absolute knowledge, and why on earth would God want to deny His own existence?

The professing atheist is what is commonly known as an "agnostic" - one who claims he "doesn't know" if God exists. It is interesting to note that the Latin equivalent for the Greek word is "ignoramus." The Bible tells us that this ignorance is "willful" (Psalm 10:4). It's not that a person can't find God, but that he won't. It has been rightly said that the "atheist" can't find God for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman. He knows that if he admits that there is a God, he is admitting that he is ultimately responsible to Him. This is not a pleasant thought for some.

It is said that Mussolini (the Italian dictator), once stood on a pinnacle and cried, "God, if you are there, strike me dead!" When God didn't immediately bow to his dictates, Mussolini then concluded that there was no God. However, his prayer was answered some time later.

Excerpted from God Doesn't Believe in Atheists by Ray Comfort
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Migs

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 07:23:41 AM »
lol, ok fist off nice spin on the logic and critical thinking use i philosphy, in which the weakest argument is most often times the strongest as it has less things to prove in order to be correct.  The argument could just as easily be flipped against nonathiests.  There are different types of athiests, so for him to say that there is no such thing as atheists is an absolute statement.  So to his own effect he contradicts himself.  I grew up Catholic, but am now more spiritual than religous.  My own reasons and beliefs as i have knwn many people of other reliions and coupled wiht my own reasoning and logic.  Although if you skim across the surface of this article, it sounds like a good argumet, barely scratch at it and you find that the argument doesn't stand on its own merits. IMO

Nordic Superman

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2007, 09:46:28 AM »
Weak arguement created by those with weak minds who chose to believe in a religious sect just because it's easy and makes *some* sense part of the time.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2007, 10:44:09 AM »
Psalm 14:1
The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.”...

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient...

2 Corinthians 4:4
In their case (Atheist) the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Bottom line one can only believe if God (The Holy Spirit) has given them the ability to believe, apart from that we are spiritually dead! Anyone who does not believe in God is spiritually dead!
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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 10:59:30 AM »
Psalm 14:1
The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.”...

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient...

2 Corinthians 4:4
In their case (Atheist) the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Bottom line one can only believe if God (The Holy Spirit) has given them the ability to believe, apart from that we are spiritually dead! Anyone who does not believe in God is spiritually dead!

Perhaps dead isn't the right word.......dormant might be better as people who are atheists find god all the time......especially in a fox hole.

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 11:39:15 AM »
Perhaps dead isn't the right word.......dormant might be better as people who are atheists find god all the time......especially in a fox hole.

Read Ephesians 2 vss 1 & 5, too much text to post. I do not use my own interpretations when quoting God's word.
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Migs

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2007, 11:41:27 AM »
Read Ephesians 2 vss 1 & 5, too much text to post. I do not use my own interpretations when quoting God's word.

who's interpretation do you use?  After all the bible has been edited and interpreted by many. 

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2007, 12:22:01 PM »
who's interpretation do you use?  After all the bible has been edited and interpreted by many. 

The Bible's interpretation. You know this is a seperate topic of discussion but yes the bible has been edited by men but overseen by God so the Bible interprets itself. One more thing, interpretation and inspiration are separate actions God inspired and moved Holy Men of old... Men have tried to interpret what God has inspired.

I have read many different translations and the all are saying the same thing: which is to say if you compared the different literary translations.  Other than that they all say Jesus is God in the flesh, Creator, Redeemer of men and Lord of Lords!

P.S. When I say Bible I mean the 66 books that makes up the Canon of Scripture as we know it, not the Morman Bible, the Apocrpha or the Jehovas  Witness' New World Translation.
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Deadpool

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2007, 02:37:56 PM »
I don't know everything.  I do know Santa Claus doesn't exist...even without knowing everything.  There IS such a thing as an atheist.  ::)
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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2007, 04:57:00 PM »
The Bible's interpretation. You know this is a seperate topic of discussion but yes the bible has been edited by men but overseen by God so the Bible interprets itself. One more thing, interpretation and inspiration are separate actions God inspired and moved Holy Men of old... Men have tried to interpret what God has inspired.

I have read many different translations and the all are saying the same thing: which is to say if you compared the different literary translations.  Other than that they all say Jesus is God in the flesh, Creator, Redeemer of men and Lord of Lords!

P.S. When I say Bible I mean the 66 books that makes up the Canon of Scripture as we know it, not the Morman Bible, the Apocrpha or the Jehovas  Witness' New World Translation.

Or so it's believed.  But not a fact.  The Bible is suspect as the God identified in it is both hypocritical, vengeful, and bi-polar. 

Necrosis

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2007, 06:02:09 PM »
ignorant argument.


to say that because you dont know everything you cannot form an opinion or have a staunch beleif is ludicris.

the argument can equally be applied to theists, how do they know there is a god for certain? they would have to know everything as well, and if they have this knowledge then they should be able to provide objective proof(of which, there is none)....

most chirstians would be wise to leave the second grade arguments at the door....

like i always say some people dont deserve to be called chirstians, atheists etc because there views have not been studied well....

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 07:05:35 PM »
Or so it's believed.  But not a fact.  The Bible is suspect as the God identified in it is both hypocritical, vengeful, and bi-polar.  Can you please provide references to support these attributes?

ignorant argument. I don't know if I would go that far but I would say it's opinionated.

to say that because you dont know everything you cannot form an opinion or have a staunch beleif is ludicris. I would agree with you but I don't think the argument was whether or not the could have "Atheist" could have an opinion, I think Mr. Comfort's emotions may have been mixed in with his opinions because Atheism is a philosophical view point, that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects any sort of theism.

the argument can equally be applied to theists, how do they know there is a god for certain? they would have to know everything as well, and if they have this knowledge then they should be able to provide objective proof (of which, there is none).... No one can prove or disprove God! 

most chirstians would be wise to leave the second grade arguments at the door.... This is not called for in my opinion, if you don't want to discuss this that is your prerogative but to demean others for what they want to discuss does not educate or help others about your views.

like i always say some people dont deserve to be called chirstians, atheists etc because there views have not been studied well.... Again Christianity is not deserved or earned God gives this gift freely. Ref- Ephesians 2, 8-9:  "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." and "Not by works, so that no one can boast."

What faith do you hold to and/or do you believe in the God of the Bible, i.e. (The God referenced in the Canon of Scripture as we know it?) Can you provide some proof in what you believe?
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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2007, 08:43:28 PM »
Must i?

Start with Moses and his killing of 3000 men on the orders from God.  I'd say this covers the first 2.  The third can be the idea that God in heaven is a jealous raging angry god, and once on earth after centuries of ordering the killing of whole towns, of innocent children he preaches tolerance.....lol   There's your bi-polar.   


A person I respect in this forum said since God created man he can kill them without moral accountability....what do you say?   :)   

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2007, 07:04:22 AM »
Must i?

Start with Moses and his killing of 3000 men on the orders from God.  I'd say this covers the first 2.  The third can be the idea that God in heaven is a jealous raging angry god, and once on earth after centuries of ordering the killing of whole towns, of innocent children he preaches tolerance.....lol   There's your bi-polar.  Please cite some references that are biblical and contextually adherent to your point.
It would be nice if you could quote scripture to validate these characteristics in context here.


A person I respect in this forum said since God created man he can kill them without moral accountability....what do you say?   :) 
I agree but God is accountable to himself and does not kill without purpose, our finite minds can not see God's purposes or what the future holds. Yes this is very frustrating for believers and unbelievers alike. I must remind you of a terrible truth: Romans 9: 15 "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Actually Rom 9: 15-23 will answer your question of why or how this happens but you really should read Rom 8,9 & 10
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Necrosis

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2007, 07:54:21 AM »
What faith do you hold to and/or do you believe in the God of the Bible, i.e. (The God referenced in the Canon of Scripture as we know it?) Can you provide some proof in what you believe?

thats the point, no one has proof, so to say there is no such thing as a strong atheist from the argument above is too invalidate a strong theist of sorts..

the argument is either coming from low intelligence or ignorance. i hate when people use half-wit arguments that only preach to the choir.

most christians, ignoramus, meat-bags, atheists and like would be wise to STFU...

i read this shit all the time.

"To say categorically, "There is no God," is to make an absolute statement. For the statement to be true, I must know for certain that there is no God in the entire universe. No human being has all knowledge. Therefore, none of us is able to truthfully make this assertion."

hmm... well there goes your beleif or assertion that there is a god, mr speaker...

great argument. anymore fallacies you want to display?

i suppose people gave him a standing ovation if he said this at a church.

this argument is weaker then intelligent design......

point out one good argument in his article..


oh jesus

"If you insist upon disbelief in God, what you must say is, "Having the limited knowledge I have at present, I believe that there is no God." Owing to a lack of knowledge on your part, you don't know if God exists. So, in the strict sense of the word, you cannot be an atheist. The only true qualifier for the title is the One who has absolute knowledge, and why on earth would God want to deny His own existence?"

did this guy write the book on fallacies and illogic?


Necrosis

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2007, 07:56:43 AM »
"No one can prove or disprove God!"

exactly, no one can prove the negative.

you also cant prove there is a blueman on the moon or fairies in my shit...

so....

you cant hold a beleif about god positive or negative according to this guy, because you lack complete knowledge. also faith is not rational. 

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 08:00:52 AM »
thats the point, no one has proof, so to say there is no such thing as a strong atheist from the argument above is too invalidate a strong theist of sorts..

So what you are saying is that you are Agnostic?
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Necrosis

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2007, 08:03:40 AM »


no.

im saying his argument doesnt make any sense whatsoever....

if he has FAITH in a god, that is not the same thing as knowing something. you cant rationally inquire into the existence of god. FAITH is always needed, so to say beleif requires complete knowledge is to make any beleif invalid and FAITH is always needed in the subject of the unknown.

the argument is wasting the paper it was written on.

im a pantheist to a degree.

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2007, 08:04:18 AM »
"No one can prove or disprove God!"

exactly, no one can prove the negative.

you also cant prove there is a blueman on the moon or fairies in my shit...

so....

you cant hold a beleif about god positive or negative according to this guy, because you lack complete knowledge. also faith is not rational.  I never agreed with what he said I merely stated the reason why many (Athiest, Agnostics and non-Christians) don't believe in a creator, especially the creator revealed in the Bible.
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Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2007, 08:08:10 AM »
no.

im saying his argument doesnt make any sense whatsoever....

if he has FAITH in a god, that is not the same thing as knowing something. you cant rationally inquire into the existence of god. FAITH is always needed, so to say beleif requires complete knowledge is to make any beleif invalid and FAITH is always needed in the subject of the unknown.

the argument is wasting the paper it was written on.

im a pantheist to a degree. If you are Pantheist you do not believe in the God of the bible (The Creator) because the God of the bible declares there are no other gods besides him.
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Necrosis

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2007, 08:10:41 AM »


ok, the god of the bible doesnt make any logical sense. i perfer to beleive that god(if he exists) would want us to use our logic.

dont understand how the god of the bible makes any sense.

quick question

is the god of the bible eternal?

Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 08:13:29 AM »
ok, the god of the bible doesnt make any logical sense. i perfer to beleive that god(if he exists) would want us to use our logic. He does he has given us the capability to logically process infomation but the corruption of sin has deminished our minds greatly.
dont understand how the god of the bible makes any sense. We can't in and of ourselves it takes the Holy Spirit to open our hearts and minds to this.
quick question

is the god of the bible eternal? The Alpha and Omega, with out end!
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Butterbean

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2007, 08:28:47 AM »
Read Ephesians 2 vss 1 & 5, too much text to post. I do not use my own interpretations when quoting God's word.

Hi Hustle Man!  Someone on this forum (I think it was loco) told me about biblegateway.com.  It's easy to copy and paste scripture from there if you desire.

Ephesians 2 (New International Version)


   

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ
 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised etc! :)


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Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2007, 08:32:40 AM »
I just want to point out that opinions are like opinions, everyone has one! I think this topic can spawn great discuss with those that have open minds but leave the opinions at home! If you want your say to be taken seriously include facts and references which usually make for a more informative a vigorous debate. You can point out any issue you have with God and I am sure God has addressed it in the Bible. I could not careless about what a man thinks I need some kind of ref/s!  
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Hustle Man

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Re: No such thing as an Atheist?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2007, 08:35:35 AM »
Hi Hustle Man!  Someone on this forum (I think it was loco) told me about biblegateway.com.  It's easy to copy and paste scripture from there if you desire.

Ephesians 2 (New International Version)


   

Ephesians 2
Made Alive in Christ
 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised etc! :)

Yes I always have it open and I always want them to read it for themselves that way their debate is with God not the messenger lol but thanks.

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