Disaster after following the TA principles.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

well, you're right, i'm a fat keyboard warrior.  but the fat didn't clog up my brain just yet.  so far you're saying you can gain muscle eating anything you want, including cardboard.  then when you realized you can't eat cardboard, you said you can't build muscle unless you replenish protein that was lost.  if it doesn't matter what you eat, you sure seem to be watching of how much you eat.

also, at 16 years of age you can eat anything you want and grow like a weed.  let's wait til about your sophomore/jr year in college when it all slows down.

but then again, adonis, your master said that someone who's "only 18 isn't producing testosterone yet".  so i guess you guys don't believe in puberty and metabolism either.

Hey man atleast you are honest. That's all i'd expect from anyone. I am not pulling any strings here. I am giving you an account of my experiences and if you don't like it then you don't have to read it. By all means do what works for you. Im just tired of seeing the lies that float around on these boards. It has been proven study after study that a calorie is a calorie. If you want to cut miserably on chicken and brocolli be my guest. I will enjoy my diet but don't be mad at me for enjoying it.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

there's fat pics of me on here.  how old are you? i'll find pictures of me at the same age.  i was on a beer and cigarettes and pizza diet throughout high school, but i bet i looked better than you.

i'll have to scan some photos of me with shirts on though, hope it doesn't disappoint you.  at that point in my life, i wasn't taking pictures of myself shirtless flexing my muscles in my bedroom for other guys on the internet.

20

[Camel Jockey]

Leafy assmonkey never did adress the Layne Norton issue...

Leafy, does Apenis' opinion carry greater weight than Layne Norton's?

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Leafy assmonkey never did adress the Layne Norton issue...

Leafy, does Apenis' opinion carry greater weight than Layne Nortons?

According to the average person it would. What is funny though is i have listened to both of them, tried both of their methods, and experience more change listening to adonis. Hell, layne even started to change his views when he ran into adonis. Just look at his old articles and you will see he contradicts himself now. I say from my experience with both Adonis opinions carry more weight. I learn from experience and had more to gain from adonis.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Leafy assmonkey never did adress the Layne Norton issue...

Leafy, does Apenis' opinion carry greater weight than Layne Nortons?

Infact, whenever i tried to talk to layne he would give me short answers and was smug and condescending. I did ask stupid questions but i was just learning and starting. I don't think very much of him. He has a mediocre physique and is cheesier the Chuck Norris.

[Camel Jockey]

According to the average person it would. What is funny though is i have listened to both of them, tried both of their methods, and experience more change listening to adonis. Hell, layne even started to change his views when he ran into adonis. Just look at his old articles and you will see he contradicts himself now. I say from my experience with both Adonis opinions carry more weight. I learn from experience and had more to gain from adonis.

Fair enough.

But the truth is that Adonis' principles go against every bbing nutrition norm.. People cannot be that ignorant.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Fair enough.

But the truth is that Adonis' principles go against every bbing nutrition norm.. People cannot be that ignorant.

Of course they do. It all started with the whole protien myth. The whole fitness industry is a lie. People act like they need personal trainers to lose weight. The concepts are simple. Protien myths started to increase powder sales, etc etc... In the end it all comes down to drugs and training (in the professional realm).

[The_Leafy_Bug]

1: As Buttsuck, you claimed that you got better results with a "chicken and rice" diet, than you did from the Adonis diet.

2: Adonis claimed Layne had changed his views on dieting, but I proved that Adonis was outright lying. Yep. He was saying things that was easily proven wrong, and then he refused to answer afterwards.

3: Layne has not changed his opinions greatly, he does not believe in ultra high protein diets, but he still think 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is optimal. That is high protein.

Thus, Adonis did not make Layne change his opinions like Adonis himself claimed. And he lied about it as well.

I never claimed that from my recollection. In fact ill show you the pictures of when i was doing chicken and rice and from when i was eating what i wanted. The changes are huge.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

I'm pretty sure you wrote it.

Then find it... You probably mistook it for me saying i'd rather cut on "clean foods" because they aren't calorie dense and they fill your stomach up.

[pumpher]

According to the average person it would. What is funny though is i have listened to both of them, tried both of their methods, and experience more change listening to adonis. Hell, layne even started to change his views when he ran into adonis. Just look at his old articles and you will see he contradicts himself now. I say from my experience with both Adonis opinions carry more weight. I learn from experience and had more to gain from adonis.

Actually, If you go far enough, Adonis changed his views...

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Actually, If you go far enough, Adonis changed his views...

The only thing he went back on was recommending an RDI... This is really a given since it is what is need to survive off of. We have proven all of this in studies. It is nothing new. I don't udnerstand why it is so controversial.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

I clearly remember it. I don't wanna spend time checking your post history.

If I am wrong, then sorry, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

You did not address my points about Adonis and Layne btw. Adonis lied, and fucked up doing so. It was clear as the day is long, and Layne has NOT changed his opinions to a great degree because of Adonis.

You are clearly mistaken. I NEVER said chicken and rice was better. Like i said, you are going to have to provide some evidence if you want to be credible. I am by no means a spokes person for adonis. I don't know why you guys are asking me to defend him. No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. I will however do my best to prove his claims. I agree with the things he says because they make sense and are logical.

[pumpher]

No controversy, Leafy Bug.

Thermogenically speaking a calorie is indeed a calorie.

But ingesting 100 calories of carbs vs. 100 calories of fat has different metabolic effects, and elicits a different hormonal response. In vivo, there are not identical.

Most of the studies you quote, but fail to read are problematic. Small sample sizes, poor controls, lack of randomization, no blinding, etc. etc.. cannot be cited as "proof". 99.9% of these studies are very poorly done. Even looking at meta-analyses the most you can is that the results are suggestive of. No cause-effect relationship has been established.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

No controversy, Leafy Bug.

Thermogenically speaking a calorie is indeed a calorie.

But ingesting 100 calories of carbs vs. 100 calories of fat has different metabolic effects, and elicits a different hormonal response. In vivo, there are not identical.

Most of the studies you quote, but fail to read are problematic. Small sample sizes, poor controls, lack of randomization, no blinding, etc. etc.. cannot be cited as "proof". 99.9% of these studies are very poorly done. Even looking at meta-analyses the most you can is that the results are suggestive of. No cause-effect relationship has been established.

Every study will have its flaws. I have cut on all fat before too. The only difference was water loss. People confuse mass for fat. Yes, there are difference but in the end it is all the same.

[The Master]

No controversy, Leafy Bug.

Thermogenically speaking a calorie is indeed a calorie.

But ingesting 100 calories of carbs vs. 100 calories of fat has different metabolic effects, and elicits a different hormonal response. In vivo, there are not identical.

Most of the studies you quote, but fail to read are problematic. Small sample sizes, poor controls, lack of randomization, no blinding, etc. etc.. cannot be cited as "proof". 99.9% of these studies are very poorly done. Even looking at meta-analyses the most you can is that the results are suggestive of. No cause-effect relationship has been established.

Do you know if any real evidence exists for the calorie/lifespan link in humans?

[The_Leafy_Bug]

1: Of course I have to provide evidence to be credible, but I just don't wanna spend time checking up on your old gimmicks. Thus, my argument has not been verified, and I can not use it.

2: You made a statement that Adonis made Layne change his views. I called you out on it and exposed Adonis as a liar. You are responsible for what you claim (as am I), thus, you have to answer for it. (and you = wrong). If you wish to not do so, that is your thing.

Ohh im responsible for it am i?? You made a claim of me contradicting myself. I tell you what... when you find that post ill answer your question  

[The Master]

Ohh im responsible for it am i?? You made a claim of me contradicting myself. I tell you what... when you find that post ill answer your question  

You are responsible for what you claim, as we all are. Your claim included Adonis,. When your claim includes Adonis, you have to answer for his acts relevant to your statement, because the underlying arguments that supports your statements depends on Adonis and his acts/claims. -> Layne did not change his views, and Adonis tried to lie about it. Thus, your argument no longer has any foundation, and it is false.

I am also responsible for my claim regarding your post, but I don't wanna spend time researching it, thus, I take the claim back for now.

[The_Leafy_Bug]

You are responsible for what you claim, as we all are. Your claim included Adonis,. When your claim includes Adonis, you have to answer for his acts, because the underlying arguments that supports your statements depends on Adonis and his acts/claims. -> Layne did not change his views, and Adonis tried to lie about it. Thus, your argument no longer has any foundation, and it is false.

I am also responsible for my claim regarding your post, but I don't wanna spend time researching it, thus, I take the claim back for now.

Ok if you called him out of it and proved it whatever... i really don't care. If you feel the need to be correct on one minor point to spare some dignity or have a sense of self accomplishment the ill allow you to have it. This is not the purpose of the thread though. The purpose is the proof that a calorie is a calorie and that high protien is not a neccesity.

[The Master]

Ok if you called him out of it and proved it whatever... i really don't care. If you feel the need to be correct on one minor point to spare some dignity or have a sense of self accomplishment the ill allow you to have it. This is not the purpose of the thread though. The purpose is the proof that a calorie is a calorie and that high protien is not a neccesity.

Nice attempt to row yourself in again kid. If you lack skills to play the game, don't try to play the "psycho analysis" card, because you are wrong there as well.

What you did tell us was that you yourself put a lot of dignity into being correct and you get a sense of self accomplishment when you are correct about tiny details, since your analysis of other peoples behaviour is based upon your own personality, and it always is. You just told me a great deal about yourself, and nothing else with your psycho babble.


 

[The_Leafy_Bug]

Nice attempt to row yourself in again kid. If you lack skills to play the game, don't try to play the "psycho analysis" card, because you are wrong there as well.

What you did tell us was that you yourself put a lot of dignity into being correct and you get a sense of self accomplishment when you are correct about tiny details, since your analysis of other peoples behaviour is based upon your own personality, and it always is. You just told me a great deal about yourself, and nothing else with your psycho babble.


 

Nahhh, and ill tell you why. The difference between you an me is im willing to end the argument because it is clear that even though i present the correct information you are not willing to listen. I am even willing to let you have the last word. I bid you adieu.

[pumpher]

Do you know if any real evidence exists for the calorie/lifespan link in humans?

There is not enough evidence at this point to establish "scientific proof" i.e. cause-effect relationship in humans. Several animal studes have been done, and observational studies in humans, but all we can say is that a low calorie diet may be a contributing factor for a longer lifespan in humans. Among the "strength of scientific evidence" continuum, observational studies lie at the bottom of the totem pole.

It would be very difficult to do a large scale human study, and control for confounding factors such as lifestyle, genetics, activity etc...especially over a long time horizon.

Clearly the North American diet is bad, and people overeat. Obesity is a problem and is a contributing factor behind heart disease, stroke, Type 2 Diabetes, cancer etc.... That in itself should tell you not to each as much... Please refer to the thread "Fat People's Lack of Willpower is Sickening..."

[The Master]

Nahhh, and ill tell you why. The difference between you an me is im willing to end the argument because it is clear that even though i present the correct information you are not willing to listen. I am even willing to let you have the last word. I bid you adieu.

Actually, your last statement holds no value. You have not tried to teach me anything, you have made some stupid claims and some "not so stupid claims", and me + other members have given you feedback. I have given your statements a rational and fair threatment, and you have no reason to claim otherwise.

Blahh, ok, I'll stop now.

 

In all seriousness kid, you seem to be one of the more open minded people here that does not take the "fitness industry bs" for granted. Even though we disagree on certain aspects of dieting and training, I respect your efforts and curiosity, and you seem to be able to discuss these issues somewhat intelligently compared to many of the fools in this industry.

Good luck with your efforts

[The Master]

There is not enough evidence at this point to establish "scientific proof" i.e. cause-effect relationship in humans. Several animal studes have been done, and observational studies in humans, but all we can say is that a low calorie diet may be a contributing factor for a longer lifespan in humans. Among the "strength of scientific evidence" continuum, observational studies lie at the bottom of the totem pole.

It would be very difficult to do a large scale human study, and control for confounding factors such as lifestyle, genetics, activity etc...especially over a long time horizon.

Clearly the North American diet is bad, and people overeat. Obesity is a problem and is a contributing factor behind heart disease, stroke, Type 2 Diabetes, cancer etc.... That in itself should tell you not to each as much... Please refer to the thread "Fat People's Lack of Willpower is Sickening..."

I see your point.

Another thing that many people miss is that there are tons of other factors contributing as well. Personality characteristics (disposition to stress, depression or happiness aso) may play a huge role. The calorie thing is a piece of the puzzle, not the answer.

Large randomized studies should in theory be representative for the person in the middle of a standard Bell curve (which many aspects of human life can be represented through=, thus, by taking personal responsibility and improving oneself in different areas, a person could change his/hers potential lifespan by exerting influence on the other variables that leads to longevity.

Ceteris Paribus, calories might play a role, but looking at lifespan in such a partial way and drawing conclusions from it (and here on very inconclusive evidence) is stupid, and not true to science at all.

[ManBearPig...]

everyone have a sandwich and calm down, celebrity fit club's on.

screech took xantrax and went to the sauna and lost 13 lbs in a day, and claims he deserves to win the show.

cletus t. judd just wanted to attack him.



some black chick just used the word "rebutalled".

[The Master]

everyone have a sandwich and calm down, celebrity fit club's on.

screech took xantrax and went to the sauna and lost 13 lbs in a day, and claims he deserves to win the show.

cletus t. judd just wanted to attack him.



some black chick just used the word "rebutalled".

Did Harvey ever recover after his meltdown?