Author Topic: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev  (Read 28671 times)

BEAST 8692

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2007, 12:31:35 AM »
law 101 my butt.

there's nothing in the law that says you cant accuse someone of something. Theres nothing in the law that says that that person cant deny it.

but the law does state that if a policing body intends to punish you- the onus of that proof is on them in order to uphold the charge.

unless freedom of speech isnt allowed- then its another story.

does freedom of speech apply in the US?



in a court of law those that make the accusation are either called the plaintiff (civil court) or the prosecutor (criminal court). each has to have a basis for their complaint.

yes, you can accuse someone of something w/o evidence, but this was done in a very public arena, the charges were very serious and they were against an individual who earns his living based partially, at least, on how he is perceived by the general public ie the public are not likely to pay money to see a contest that has been fixed from the start. this is where the defamation comes in.

this most definitely IS law 101. in fact it is the most crucial element to prove in law ie an accusation supported by evidence.


Milos_Sarcev

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2007, 01:06:54 AM »
Exactly. Not to worry, Milos has proof "and then some!" At least that's what he says.

And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)

I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)

BEAST 8692

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2007, 03:54:16 AM »
And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)

I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)

i, personally, would be absolutely delighted if you do have evidence Milos. in fact, with so much said and done, i strongly recommend that you gather the best evidence you possibly can.

fixing contests, after all the sacrifice and dedication these guys go through, stinks and there is the fraud against the fans to consider aswell.

YoungBlood

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2007, 07:41:34 AM »
And than some...
I am putting everything together (I had 10 hours flight to Japan which I used exclusively for "my case"...)

I hope to have everything ready by the time I come back (in two weeks...)

I pretty much trust everything you say Milos, but if you have the proof, how come you didn't use any of this evidence in the IFBB "trial?"

disco_stu

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2007, 12:59:49 PM »
in a court of law those that make the accusation are either called the plaintiff (civil court) or the prosecutor (criminal court). each has to have a basis for their complaint.

yes, you can accuse someone of something w/o evidence, but this was done in a very public arena, the charges were very serious and they were against an individual who earns his living based partially, at least, on how he is perceived by the general public ie the public are not likely to pay money to see a contest that has been fixed from the start. this is where the defamation comes in.

this most definitely IS law 101. in fact it is the most crucial element to prove in law ie an accusation supported by evidence.



i dont disagree at all with this...in fact this is exactly my point. he cannot be found guilty of making an accusation. If anything at all, its a matter for the civil courts and between those two only.

if in fact the accusations are false, milos will get sorted by that process and will be liable for damages and then some.

if they can prove they are unfounded or no definite decision can be made to prove or refute the accusation then theres a case for damages as a result.

until the findings of such a process are determined, the IFBB cannot do anything as they have nothing and no legal process.

this is my beef with the IFBB in this case. They should- i assume- have every right to cancel any contractual dealings with milos if he has infact breached very specific conditions of his contract.

On top of this, their publication of the letter leaves them AS OPEN for litigation as anyone involved- why they didnt suppress it is beyond belief.

Should any legal proceedings take place, and the outcome in fact is either no charge or the accusations are proven- then the IFBB should book its seat in the courtroom as they will be called next to be charged for damages to Milos as a result of publishing the letter and also of making unlawful findings and ''false accusations''.


Nuge

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2007, 01:03:23 PM »
Love how, as usual, this plays out on a public message board.  ::)

 
Repent, or join me!

Milos_Sarcev

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2007, 01:45:29 PM »
I pretty much trust everything you say Milos, but if you have the proof, how come you didn't use any of this evidence in the IFBB "trial?"

There are simple proofs and complicated ones...if you know what I mean...

Something that is very easy to prove and some that you is NOT SO EASY...as "everybody knows but nobody wants to say"...

How come I didn't use any evidence?

I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...
That is why I didn't give them anything as of yet...

I will have so much to present (and it will be posted here on board ;)) - it will take HOURS to read everything...

sgt. d

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2007, 01:57:20 PM »
I miss Milos :'(


Maybe the PDI will pick him up ;D

garraeth

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2007, 01:59:05 PM »
There are simple proofs and complicated ones...if you know what I mean...

Something that is very easy to prove and some that you is NOT SO EASY...as "everybody knows but nobody wants to say"...

How come I didn't use any evidence?

I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...
That is why I didn't give them anything as of yet...

I will have so much to present (and it will be posted here on board ;)) - it will take HOURS to read everything...
Kewl.


And while we wait...how's Japan?
Also, say "hi" to Hide...!

knny187

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2007, 02:35:43 PM »

I was told that FULL INVESTIGATION is issued in this matter...but what I realized later - I was the only one being investigated...


go figure


what's with that bs?

G o a t b o y

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2007, 02:39:49 PM »
go figure


what's with that bs?


The IFBB sucks big fat donkey balls.
Ron: "I am lazy."

Deadpool

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2007, 02:43:39 PM »

The IFBB sucks big fat donkey balls.
X

BEAST 8692

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2007, 06:55:39 AM »
i dont disagree at all with this...in fact this is exactly my point. he cannot be found guilty of making an accusation. If anything at all, its a matter for the civil courts and between those two only.

if in fact the accusations are false, milos will get sorted by that process and will be liable for damages and then some.

if they can prove they are unfounded or no definite decision can be made to prove or refute the accusation then theres a case for damages as a result.

until the findings of such a process are determined, the IFBB cannot do anything as they have nothing and no legal process.

this is my beef with the IFBB in this case. They should- i assume- have every right to cancel any contractual dealings with milos if he has infact breached very specific conditions of his contract.

On top of this, their publication of the letter leaves them AS OPEN for litigation as anyone involved- why they didnt suppress it is beyond belief.

Should any legal proceedings take place, and the outcome in fact is either no charge or the accusations are proven- then the IFBB should book its seat in the courtroom as they will be called next to be charged for damages to Milos as a result of publishing the letter and also of making unlawful findings and ''false accusations''.



damn, that would be so very awesome if it played out like that :). please let that be true :D...it's too good to be true isn't it? :(

onlyme

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2007, 10:56:03 AM »
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit.  His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too.  I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged.  Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.

BEAST 8692

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2007, 11:46:10 AM »
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit.  His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too.  I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged.  Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.

true, Milos has copped an absolute caning from the ifbb.

to think, if the ifbb had a hof, Milos would probably be in it (consistantly placing in many many ifbb shows and an exemplary role model) and this is how they treat him. :-[

kinda stinks imho.

Beks

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2007, 12:35:52 PM »
After Milos wins this case and he will, he can then go after them with a lawsuit.  His name has defintiely been damaged during this period and money and reputation has suffered too.  I still find it interesting that the IFBB investigates Milos but not the people he has alleged.  Just another example of how, if you go against the IFBB you suffer no matter if you are right or not.


Amazing the ignorance and bantering of the "Law" word. After reading what limited evidence surrounding this entire matter exists at this time it is impossible to make any assumptions.

What is prevalent is the precedence established supposedly by the IFBB in suspending a member. Point in fact, a member brings alledged wrong doing to light, the governing body is mandated to "investigate" such allegations in a fair and impartial manner.
A prudent group of professionals would expect the member alledging wrong doing to be summoned to the governing body in an effort to began due diligence in a fair and impartial manner.
Federal case Law has established "suspension" as a disciplinary action. Thus the problem exists. In this particular matter the member has not been given his due process, regardless the forum of the members free speech, case law again takes a precedence in establishing this given matter.

Alarming is the cloak of urgency in which the IFBB moves whenever "any" member questions it's core and or organisation, even in the simplest sense.

Reference the NFL players rep shall we, never will nor do we see such case pertinent information coming from a rep, the Rep simply assures the fair and established process is followed. Chick has been placed into an advocate role from the IFBB in which his actions clearly cross lines of other organized professional sports organizations as it pertains to acceptable Rep behavior.
Simply put, the rep has NO business commenting on such actions during a pending investigation, when this occurs we then see the "fangs" of hell come from others as they feel the Rep is NOT being fair and impartial.

The IFBB must establish communication avenues for all it's members THAT the members will come to accept as truly fair. Until then we will continue to see such outburst's.

Beks

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2007, 07:30:03 PM »
Milos,

I really feel that you should not rejoin the IFBB even if they say you can. I can't say if they did you wrong or not but just the fact they suspended a member that has supported the IFBB for as long as you have is ashame. Honestly, I think you should go with Lee and go to PDI and make it even better. If you go to the PDI then so will the other high caliber competitors. The IFBB thinks they are punishing you by suspending you. I see it differently, They are hurting themselves mainly because its giving them a bigger black eye than what they already have. Most fans don't like the IFBB or the officials they employ. Your name will get bigger in the bodybuilding community because of this. Reap the benefits from their misfortune. Make it work for you!!!!

Chick you should do the same. You seem to be an intelligent person, move on before the axe drops on the IFBB...


Chick

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2007, 07:33:05 PM »

Amazing the ignorance and bantering of the "Law" word. After reading what limited evidence surrounding this entire matter exists at this time it is impossible to make any assumptions.

What is prevalent is the precedence established supposedly by the IFBB in suspending a member. Point in fact, a member brings alledged wrong doing to light, the governing body is mandated to "investigate" such allegations in a fair and impartial manner.

No they're not...they are only mandated to investigate IF proof and fact are presented and warranting such action.

 
A prudent group of professionals would expect the member alledging wrong doing to be summoned to the governing body in an effort to began due diligence in a fair and impartial manner.
Federal case Law has established "suspension" as a disciplinary action. Thus the problem exists. In this particular matter the member has not been given his due process, regardless the forum of the members free speech, case law again takes a precedence in establishing this given matter.

Actually...you're wrong. Due dilligence was given as he was given 2 chances to provide proof of allegations BEFORE being suspended.

Alarming is the cloak of urgency in which the IFBB moves whenever "any" member questions it's core and or organisation, even in the simplest sense.

Reference the NFL players rep shall we, never will nor do we see such case pertinent information coming from a rep, the Rep simply assures the fair and established process is followed. Chick has been placed into an advocate role from the IFBB in which his actions clearly cross lines of other organized professional sports organizations as it pertains to acceptable Rep behavior.
Simply put, the rep has NO business commenting on such actions during a pending investigation, when this occurs we then see the "fangs" of hell come from others as they feel the Rep is NOT being fair and impartial.

Please...reference such facts that I presented. Show me one fact of the case that I discussed. People see what they want to see, based on bullshit they read on the boards....If they knew the facts, they may have a different outlook.


The IFBB must establish communication avenues for all it's members THAT the members will come to accept as truly fair. Until then we will continue to see such outburst's.

Beks


War-Horse

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2007, 08:10:41 PM »
Bob.  Make sure Lee preist doesnt get screwed out of placing and qualifying for the Olympia.    At 12:01 am on the sept 15th he can do the atlantic pro.

I havent asked for a favor since i built my deck a few weeks ago, so ill owe ya a free "Bobs bowl" at the firehouse, okay??

See you at the USA's and will get you a signed pic in return... 8)

Chick

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2007, 08:13:38 PM »
Bob.  Make sure Lee preist doesnt get screwed out of placing and qualifying for the Olympia.    At 12:01 am on the sept 15th he can do the atlantic pro.

I havent asked for a favor since i built my deck a few weeks ago, so ill owe ya a free "Bobs bowl" at the firehouse, okay??

See you at the USA's and will get you a signed pic in return... 8)

Lee's not going to get "screwed" out of anything....

To correct you...at 12:01/ Sept. 15th, his suspension ends....that doesn't necessarily mean he can do the ACPro.

I'm doing all I can for Lee in reguards to exploring his options...

The Squadfather

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2007, 08:14:37 PM »
a Bob bowl is flank steak and white rice, right Bob?

War-Horse

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2007, 08:40:00 PM »
Lee's not going to get "screwed" out of anything....

To correct you...at 12:01/ Sept. 15th, his suspension ends....that doesn't necessarily mean he can do the ACPro.

I'm doing all I can for Lee in reguards to exploring his options...


Well, thats debatable.      12:01 am is a free day for Lee, so why couldnt he compete??

I do believe, you will do all you can, to help him tho.


Yes squadfather, 1 lb of steak and 2 cups of rice....good stuff.

Chick

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2007, 09:02:55 PM »

Well, thats debatable.      12:01 am is a free day for Lee, so why couldnt he compete??

I do believe, you will do all you can, to help him tho.


Yes squadfather, 1 lb of steak and 2 cups of rice....good stuff.

Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...

chaos

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2007, 09:04:49 PM »
Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...
??? explain that one, if he's no longer suspended, how is he not re-instated?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

bigdumbbell

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Re: IFBB suspends / bans Milos Sarcev
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2007, 09:05:43 PM »
Just because the suspension ends, doesn't automatically reinstate you in the IFBB...
the rules are very similar to beauty pageants