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Author Topic: right trap/shoulder connection pain/ache  (Read 3205 times)
noc
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« on: July 04, 2007, 05:35:44 PM »

that is all

help

been like it for 3-4 weeks, not sure how i did it but i haven't been able to train properly cause of it

maybe a massage will help?

thanks  Kiss
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Dr. D
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 01:33:29 PM »

you need to be more specific in your details....
is it a pinch nerve, muscle soreness, trouble moving the arm???
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noc
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 09:28:25 AM »

you need to be more specific in your details....
is it a pinch nerve, muscle soreness, trouble moving the arm???

i can raise the arm but not comfortably, it feels like it might be nerve but im not sure  Huh

thanks in advance friend!  Cool
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Dr. D
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 05:41:31 PM »

well, I can't really tell you much from that, but if you think it's a nerve because you can't lift your arm, it probably is. The nerve plexus from C4-T1 could be pinched and this is usually due to faulty training, forward, rounded shoulders (usually from bench pressing) and forward head posture with thoracic kyphosis, also know as Upper-Cross Syndrome.




When you have faulty posture and poor training techniques, you will force pressure on these nerves which can cause pain and weakness.

If you think it's from bench pressing for example, read this: http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26

Again, I can't tell you much without an assessment or evaluation.

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noc
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 06:28:48 PM »

i have had shoulder problems before due to benching which is why i completely stopped doing it (free barbell)

i can lift my arm theres just a 'awkward' feeling there when i do it

i think its this forward head movement thing, i remember sitting in the sauna before this all happened and was doing some weird neck twisting while leaning forward

what should i do dr  Huh

thanks again for the quick and informative responses ! 
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noc
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 06:36:01 PM »

How does one develop UCS? Simply, itís the weakening and lengthening of certain spino-scapular musculature. These include the Rhomboids, Trapezius (middle and lower), Deep Neck Flexors (Supra and Infra Hyoid), Supraspinatus, Infraspinatus, and the Deltoid, combined with the shortening of the Pectoralis Major and Minor, Levator Scapulae, Trapezius (upper), Scalenes, Subscapularis, and the Sternocleidomastoids.  In other words, it is the weakening and lengthening of the posterior upper-back and neck musculature and the tightening and shortening of the anterior and opposing musculature.

this sounds exactly like what it is doc

How do I fix it?  Well, strengthening whatís weak and stretching whatís tight. In case youíve forgotten, we gave you the blueprint of muscles a few lines back. In that blueprint we mentioned the muscles that make up the rotator cuff, so Iíll now discuss their function and relevancy to the stability of the shoulder as it pertains to movement and posture.

in your opinion, is that accurate?

got it from this link

http://www.ironmanlive.com/training/strength/rotator-cuff-stability-and-upper-cross-syndrome
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chirorhino
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 07:20:57 PM »

well, I can't really tell you much from that, but if you think it's a nerve because you can't lift your arm, it probably is. The nerve plexus from C4-T1 could be pinched and this is usually due to faulty training, forward, rounded shoulders (usually from bench pressing) and forward head posture with thoracic kyphosis, also know as Upper-Cross Syndrome.

When you have faulty posture and poor training techniques, you will force pressure on these nerves which can cause pain and weakness.

If you think it's from bench pressing for example, read this: http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26

Again, I can't tell you much without an assessment or evaluation.



Dr. D are you a DC?

NOC, UCS is treated easily enough as Dr. D stated via strengthening the weakened muscles and releasing the trigger points in the hypertonic muscles via massage/soft tissue work, but I would not start diagnosis a rotator cuff problem without the proper Orthopedic tests. I would suggest you go see a chiropractor considering that we are trained ad naseum in the treatment of UCS. UCS very commonly occurs in bodybuilders, so it is very possible that this may be your problem.

As an aside, I would strongly suggest that you do not attempt to do the Rotator cuff exercises that you picked up off of ironman live if you are having any pain/weakness in your shoulder. Not to mention the rotator cuff is only a small component of UCS and is most definitely not the origin of your pain unless it is directly related to an trauma/tendonitis of the supraspinatus itself. As stated above only orthopedic tests would in determine the origin of your "shoulder/neck pain/ache"
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Dr. D
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 12:41:59 AM »

Usually if you have Upper Cross Syndrome, you will most likely have Lower Cross Syndrome. You need to get a full assessment, ( I highly suggest a practitioner from the C.H.E.K Institute who is a Level 2 or higher). It's not just one thing it could be many factors but the key is Posture!! Strengthen the weak and Loosen the tight is the rule of thumb. If one muscle is out of balance, the whole body is out of balance.
As for rotator cuffs, you really need to see a someone who knows what they are doing, again a C.H.E.K Practitioner is your best bet. Let me know what area you are from and I'll see who is around there who can help.
Also, I would get some Nerve Flushing done. I use the techniques by David Butler. He has a few books but the best one is Sensitive Nervous System.
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chirorhino
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2007, 10:00:54 AM »

Usually if you have Upper Cross Syndrome, you will most likely have Lower Cross Syndrome. You need to get a full assessment, ( I highly suggest a practitioner from the C.H.E.K Institute who is a Level 2 or higher). It's not just one thing it could be many factors but the key is Posture!! Strengthen the weak and Loosen the tight is the rule of thumb. If one muscle is out of balance, the whole body is out of balance.
As for rotator cuffs, you really need to see a someone who knows what they are doing, again a C.H.E.K Practitioner is your best bet. Let me know what area you are from and I'll see who is around there who can help.
Also, I would get some Nerve Flushing done. I use the techniques by David Butler. He has a few books but the best one is Sensitive Nervous System.

DR. D is very write about the correlation between UCS and Lower Cross Syndrome/Presentation. C.H.E.K. is not something that I have every heard of but after looking over the link it looks like Paul Chek has furthered the studies of the acclaimed neurologist Vladimir Janda who first introduced the concepts of UCS, LCS, and Layer Syndrome back in the 70's and worked on furthering the research behind them until his death in 2002.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_200304/ai_n9196292

Dr. D thanks for the link...It is definitely a creditial that I will add to my post-doctoral studies.
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noc
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2007, 12:21:44 PM »

thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it

one last thing

out of these people, who do you thinks best qualified to handle it?

http://www.healthyspines.co.uk/Meet%20the%20Team.htm

thats the only practice near me

thanks again
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Dr. D
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2007, 05:48:11 PM »

thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it

one last thing

out of these people, who do you thinks best qualified to handle it?

http://www.healthyspines.co.uk/Meet%20the%20Team.htm

thats the only practice near me

thanks again

what part of the UK you from? What major city are you near too or in?
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Dr. D
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2007, 05:49:05 PM »

DR. D is very write about the correlation between UCS and Lower Cross Syndrome/Presentation. C.H.E.K. is not something that I have every heard of but after looking over the link it looks like Paul Chek has furthered the studies of the acclaimed neurologist Vladimir Janda who first introduced the concepts of UCS, LCS, and Layer Syndrome back in the 70's and worked on furthering the research behind them until his death in 2002.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_200304/ai_n9196292

Dr. D thanks for the link...It is definitely a creditial that I will add to my post-doctoral studies.

I studied under Paul for many years...trust me, he is light years ahead of anyone.
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chirorhino
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2007, 05:56:38 PM »

thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate it

one last thing

out of these people, who do you thinks best qualified to handle it?

http://www.healthyspines.co.uk/Meet%20the%20Team.htm

thats the only practice near me

thanks again

I would go with either Lee or Anderson, but my lean is towards Dr. Anderson due to his mention of focus on sports injury although it states that he works in conjuction with Dr. Lee in developing exercise programs.
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noc
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 09:45:17 AM »

what part of the UK you from? What major city are you near too or in?


I would go with either Lee or Anderson, but my lean is towards Dr. Anderson due to his mention of focus on sports injury although it states that he works in conjuction with Dr. Lee in developing exercise programs.

i got a consultation on Wednesday  Smiley anything specific i should mention or just let him work his magic? 
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chirorhino
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 01:55:25 PM »

They should get everything that they need to treat you via your history, physical exam, and ortho-testing. As long as you are forth coming regarding your injury and your concerns they should have no problem working there magic. Be aware that it is def going to take a few sessions to get you back to rights, but let me know how it works out.
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noc
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2007, 06:22:05 PM »

They should get everything that they need to treat you via your history, physical exam, and ortho-testing. As long as you are forth coming regarding your injury and your concerns they should have no problem working there magic. Be aware that it is def going to take a few sessions to get you back to rights, but let me know how it works out.

Thanks i will.

It costs 50 pounds which is about 100 dollars just for the 15-30 minute consultation

after that every treatment lasts 15 minutes and that costs 60-70 dollars!

there is money in this 'treatment game'  Angry
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chirorhino
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2007, 09:40:02 PM »

Sounds about right cost wise, although most chiropractors here in the states do the physical exam/"consultation" for a discount or free of charge. As for the treatments, that is the universal norm at least with the doctors that I have visited/consulted with. In fact the going rate in California is $85 and up depending on the doctor
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noc
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2007, 10:22:47 AM »

yo

he took some pictures of my back to show me, part of my back or something was out of place, i was on my back and he done this crunching thing on me, felt like my back had just been snapped and the same to my neck, sort of how you see in films when they kill people by breaking there neck

anyway it feels bit better but going on saturday for some more, he told me to ice it.
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Dr. D
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 07:48:02 PM »

yo

he took some pictures of my back to show me, part of my back or something was out of place, i was on my back and he done this crunching thing on me, felt like my back had just been snapped and the same to my neck, sort of how you see in films when they kill people by breaking there neck

anyway it feels bit better but going on saturday for some more, he told me to ice it.

that sounds all wonderful but what he is doing to prevent this from occurring? Is he designing a program for you? Has he done a full physical assessment to see what muscle imbalances you have?
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chirorhino
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 08:53:57 PM »

Dr. D is dead on with his post. Sounds like the Dr. fixed subluxations in both your thoracic and cervical spine, but without a program to fix your muscle imbalances these subluxations will reappear rather quickly. Without the rehab you are just throwing your quid away!
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noc
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2007, 06:22:05 PM »

Hello.

Sorry about late reply - was away with business and completely forgot.

I am still conscious of the feeling there, he hasn't designed a program per say, he did mention some exercises in the first meeting but I have forgotten to ask him and our next appointment is in four weeks...he did tell me to use an elastic band on my fingers and to open them up ect as I told him i sometimes use the keyboard alot for work.

What exercises would these be as four weeks is a long time.

Thanks again  Kiss  Cool
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Dr. D
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Vince and Derek: Match made in GetBig Heaven!


« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2007, 09:10:01 PM »

Hello.

Sorry about late reply - was away with business and completely forgot.

I am still conscious of the feeling there, he hasn't designed a program per say, he did mention some exercises in the first meeting but I have forgotten to ask him and our next appointment is in four weeks...he did tell me to use an elastic band on my fingers and to open them up ect as I told him i sometimes use the keyboard alot for work.

What exercises would these be as four weeks is a long time.

Thanks again  Kiss  Cool

I find it so sad that every therapist give people these stupid bands to work on their hands and arms. You have deeper issues that require more than playing with rubber bands. Sorry to come off harsh but it pisses me off. You need to find a CHEK practitioner in your area. http://www.chekinstitute.com/prac.cfm
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noc
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« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2007, 06:50:15 PM »

Hi Dr.D

Is CHEK the only type of people that will be able to fix me?

There isn't anyone in my city and I would have to travel a fair bit to get to each appointment to the nearest city(London)

Is there no other option? It's getting really frustrating; haven't been to the gym in 3 months.

Thanks again mate, really appreciate it.
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Dr. D
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Vince and Derek: Match made in GetBig Heaven!


« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2007, 07:29:12 PM »

Hi Dr.D

Is CHEK the only type of people that will be able to fix me?

There isn't anyone in my city and I would have to travel a fair bit to get to each appointment to the nearest city(London)

Is there no other option? It's getting really frustrating; haven't been to the gym in 3 months.

Thanks again mate, really appreciate it.

Honestly, yes...but that is from my experience and from other people's testimony. I think a trip for an assessment and then a follow up for your program is worth a lifetime of pain or discomfort. I can hook you up with my friend Audrey out there. She is amazing and super hot...haha...she won Ms. FAME Fitness UK 2007 .
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noc
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« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2007, 07:42:08 PM »

Honestly, yes...but that is from my experience and from other people's testimony. I think a trip for an assessment and then a follow up for your program is worth a lifetime of pain or discomfort. I can hook you up with my friend Audrey out there. She is amazing and super hot...haha...she won Ms. FAME Fitness UK 2007 .

I did already look into it and found a place but where is this 'Audrey' and does she give 'happy endings' Grin

http://www.bodychek.co.uk/ This is the place i found, 250 pounds for consultation about 500 dollars, sound right?

I got it from your link, here is the page:
http://www.chekinstitute.com/prac_specific.cfm?practitioner=226

Do they sound good  Tongue

Thanks alot!  Cool
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