Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids

[Figo]

As much as I am a fan of the 70's and 80's physiques, I cant believe people eat this shit up.

A quote from a post on IA re an article on Don Howorth:

"DH: I think what people  don't realize is, we made such good gains on such low dosages  because  we  worked our asses off! Today, everybody's relying on the drugs. Put some  of  these  guys  today through the ball busting workouts we did and they'd never make it.   Personally, I used  a  fairly  large  amount  of  Dianabol  --  5 milligrams a day before the Mr. America contest.


NM: Five milligrams? That's it?  That's one pill! Guys today take up  to 20 pills  a day along with a thousand or so milligrams of injectables.

DH: At one point I used 10 mgs a day but then I started to retain  a lot of water. We heard things about it but didn't really  know  much.   Some  people  said that it didn't  increase strength, but that was bull.  I took 5 mgs  of  Dianabol  for  4 weeks and my bench press went from up thirty five pounds! I noticed I recovered a lot faster  and got great pumps.   But I never  took  any
injectables.  I  never  even  knew about them. The only injection I ever had was when I  was  in the Navy and I didn't like it! (Laughs)"

So, juice was invented and used back in the 40's, everyone used a shitload of the stuff in the 60's & 70's, as it wasnt morally nor legally objectionable, but now that its taboo, everyone was a nattie.

Reeves talked about steroids in an interview in mm where he had just begun training, and someone asked him if he was on juice, he said he thought guy was talking bout orange juice, Scott used 5mgs dbol, Pearl used it for a couple of weeks once, Sergio was already huge and in his prime before he touched the stuff...

Its part of industry, but there are people that believe this crap, and somehow Arnie and Franco and the guys built these amazing physiques completely drug-free. Have they not seen pics of their heroes off the sauce? I'm not trying to belittle the ironage, but they were also humans like todays guys, only reason they didnt look like todays guys, is because they didnt know how to, and that it was possible.
Much like 100m sprints under 10s, no-one knew nor thought it was possible.

My 2 cents.

[hazbin]

it's an unfortunate querk of the sports world. no different than Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, etc. look at the difference in nba player frames from the 70's to now. these guys are thick and lean on 6'8" frames. yet if someone has  a cocaine, heroin or alcohol problem and talk about it, they become a hero or role model. a powerlifter i know just tore his bicep and the doctor was treating him like a scumbag drug addict while a heroin addict with hep c. was being treated like a goddess at the clinic.  it's a messed up world out there!

[pumpster]

Unfortunately Iron Age and it's originator Perrine who writes for Flex insist on a sacharine interpretretation of BB. Anything too intensely realistic is frowned upon if not immediately deleted.

Someone claiming to be a writer should be the last to exert such control over opinions but that's the way it works there.

[Sergio Rules 77]

Here is an interview where Reeves said he never took steroids, although it is well known that he did in fact use them :

http://www.drkrm.com/reeves.html

Its part of industry, but there are people that believe this crap, and somehow Arnie and Franco and the guys built these amazing physiques completely drug-free.

Speaking of Franco, I have a classic interview with him on Fox & Friends, when Arnold was thinking of running for Governor. And they asked Franco if he and Arnold used steroids and he said the following statement, word for word. "In the 70's I asked Arnold "What are these steroids that people keep talking about". Arnold got angry at me and said "Forget about that, let's just get to the Gym and TRAIN!!!" "As time went on I'm sure Arnold may have tried a little bit here and there" . Try not to put your fist through the computer screen in anger at the hypocrisy of that statement. So according to Franco, the subject of Steroids didn't come up until some 8-10 years into their friendship .

SERGIO!!!!

[Figo]

Very cute stuff. I'm familiar with the I'm just a stupid emmigrant that hasn't mastered the language and am so quaint, rustic, innocent and shit act...

What actually happened is:

Franco: Ahnold, wat iz diz stuff "steroids"?

Arnold: Argh, Franco, you stupids childs, "seine steroide"! The stuff we have been uzing for 15 years everyday! Now lets go the gym and train and so on, and do ze stuff we do at the gym and things like that. Before ze steroide wear off.

Franco: Warum behandeln Sie mich mag ein Kind? Ich habe nicht gewusst, stimmt zu? (Why do you treat me like a child? I did not know, ok?)

You see, it was just a language barrier...

[funk51]

that's why franco developed gyno in the last olympia that he competed in and won. bobby pandour the greatest natural physique circa 1900's.

[pumpster]

And they asked Franco if he and Arnold used steroids and he said the following statement, word for word. "In the 70's I asked Arnold "What are these steroids that people keep talking about". Arnold got angry at me and said "Forget about that, let's just get to the Gym and TRAIN!!!" "As time went on I'm sure Arnold may have tried a little bit here and there" . Try not to put your fist through the computer screen in anger at the hypocrisy of that statement. So according to Franco, the subject of Steroids didn't come up until some 8-10 years into their friendship .

SERGIO!!!!

Columbu also claims that he fully deserved both Olympias he won.

[pumpster]

Franco: Ahnold, wat iz diz stuff "steroids"?

Arnold: Argh, Franco, you stupids childs, "seine steroide"! The stuff we have been uzing for 15 years everyday! Now lets go the gym and train and so on, and do ze stuff we do at the gym and things like that. Before ze steroide wear off.

Franco: Warum behandeln Sie mich mag ein Kind? Ich habe nicht gewusst, stimmt zu? (Why do you treat me like a child? I did not know, ok?)

You see, it was just a language barrier...

Ya it's convincing to claim that they were both innocent & wholesome, living in Venice Beach in the late 60s LOL

[Sergio Rules 77]

Be careful what you write because some of them read and post here at GetBig and know "it is well known that he did" is complete b.s. You lose credibility when you write lies like that about Steve.

Steve was honest and natural his entire life. That's the truth. If anyone can't see it...take it down to the bone structure...and wonder why Steve's skeleton is wider than some guys alive with muscles on their physique who are on steroids. Steve was a BIG man because he had a BIG FRAME...with some muscle on it...he was bigger in life....bigger than life...that is why he was Legend...so GetBig...and tell the truth about Steve Reeves. 

Here is an interview with Sergio where he talked about drug use in the 60's and mentions Steve :

BDJ: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?


SO: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it. It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.


I don't have access to it but I also read an interview where Harold Poole said that Steve took steroids but mainly relied on B12 injections. I think you misinterpreted that I'm some sought of hater on Steve, I'm not. I loved the guy and he's in my top 10 bodybuilders of all time. I'm just being honest, based on what I've read and heard from fellow bodybuilding fans.

SERGIO!!!!

[pumpster]

Oliva seems generally on point but not always. When he said that Schwarzenegger was one of the first his credibility took a hit. Same with Reeves, since that wasn't his generation and he offered no evidence to back it up.

[Figo]

You are wrong saying Steve Reeves took steroids and was a liar...and it shows you did not know Steve at all. If he did steroids, he would just say so and not give a damn. That's just the way his was. No b.s. about him. Steve would talk about his life and say, "I tried this and this worked well and this went wrong..." He didn't care if he impressed anyone...and he wouldn't lie about steroids either. I knew Steve...and I can tell by what you write about him that you clearly didn't.

The guys who served in WWII with Steve called him "The Shape" and talked about how he and Tony came up with $20 for some used barbells in the Philippines to train with and share with the guys. Steve would eat 3 plates of food at every meal if he could manage to get extra because he burned so many calories he had to in order to keep the weight on.  While with Company B of the 25th division, Steve would strap a 5 gallon can on his back and run down to Zaragoza River, fill up the can and hike back up the hill while snipers shot at him. He did this so the troops would have enough water to drink.

When Steve was stationed in Otaruon, Japan on Nokkaido Island, it was very cold and snowed a lot. Everyone was given a coat to wear except Steve because there were no coats that were broad enough in the shoulders to fit him. An officer saw this and ordered him one..but it arrived for him 2 months after the snow melted. Here is Steve with this HUGE frame...and muscle on it to boot...without a coat to fit him. That was not from steroids, kids...and he never took any at any time after that. And he didn't lie about it.  I'm glad anyone here who badmouths Steve and tell lies regarding his character wasn't in the service with him back then...you would have shot him in the back while he served in the front line--because that's what you are doing to his name here.

I will tell you what is well known...from the ones who knew Steve better than anyone...Steve's friends, Steve's co-workers, Steve's family, and even jealous guys who hated Steve for his good genetics and seemingly perfection, guys who competed against him, magazine publishers who wrote about him, bodybuilding journalists and reporters through the years, famous and non-famous bodybuilders through the decades that followed him wrote about him in their books, newsletters and magazines said the same thing about Steve. That he was a natural. Are all of those people liars and stupid? No. Be careful what you write because some of them read and post here at GetBig and know "it is well known that he did" is complete b.s. You lose credibility when you write lies like that about Steve.

Steve was honest and natural his entire life. That's the truth. If anyone can't see it...take it down to the bone structure...and wonder why Steve's skeleton is wider than some guys alive with muscles on their physique who are on steroids. Steve was a BIG man because he had a BIG FRAME...with some muscle on it...he was bigger in life....bigger than life...that is why he was Legend...so GetBig...and tell the truth about Steve Reeves. 


Click twice for full size:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/steve4.JPG

See, this is exactly the romantic line of thought I was trying to illustrate Thanks for assisting.

It doesn't take anything away from Reeves the fact he took aas, its part and parcel of bbing. Also it helps bbing actors retain their size whilst in Italy on movie sets with little time and poor facilities to train in, as well as unable to keep up with diet,not to mention at an older age. Ask Stallone, Arnold, Lundgren and Weathers(unless they're also lifetime natties ).

This is reminiscent of people that think wrestling is for real. People that believe cyclists dont dope, especially Lance Armstrong. People that look down on baseball players, because after many decades of using dating back to Babe Ruth, only now some of them have been bust. Why would any of them admit it? Its taboo and frowned upon due to media hype and negative, mainly speculative and false propagada.

If they negate it and we wear blinkers, they remain heroes.

[Figo]

Thank you Pumpster. I appreciate your comment. SergioRules77, thanks for saying where you heard the information. I don't know who told Sergio that garbage about Steve, but I can imagine the intentions of the person who originated the b.s. Harold Poole is also either in the same category of the mistaken and confused...or purposely intended to mislead people into believing wrong and set Steve up to look like a liar. It's all b.s. Serge knows Sergio. I'll tell him the next time he talks to Sergio, he should correct his information about Steve. Sergio has too big of a following to be saying misinformation about Steve Reeves to anyone. Figo, did you mean to say "blinders" instead of "blinkers"? It looks like your math is as good as your spelling...and your history sucks too. But you do get an A+ in Asshole...making up stories about my family, badmouthing, lying, making fun of and proceeding to tell me who and what I know and who Steve Reeves was when you never even met him. What a f. joke. You don't have a clue. What's worse is your response to those in the know who tell others the truth.  Anyone smart would shut their mouth. Your silly smug pseudo-intellectual half-truths added to more lies piled on top of them as if we're impressed or convinced by your made up physical culture history accounts are nothing but ridiculous b.s. You fool no one but yourself.

Your post shows one thing--if you had any size at all naturally, you wouldn't spend your time trying to prove that no great bodybuilder ever existed without drugs. How foolish on your part to reveal your size and mediocre genetics by setting out on a crusade of lies against dead men who aren't here to defend themselves. You're a real asshole to be lying about Steve. One day I hope someone returns the favor and defames you in the same way you are trying to do to him. Then you will understand how it feels and how wrong it is.

Steve's grandfather, Sylvester Reeves, is my great-grandfather. This is why I am friends with Serge Nubret, who mentioned it at bodybuilding.com and planetmuscle. There are people here who know me...have seen birth certificates, old letters, pictures or heard it from Steve, but apparently you don't Figo because you attempt to educate me about Steve Reeves as if you knew him better than I do. YOU telling ME about STEVE. lol. I am not a just a fan. I have the same blood. Should I tell you about one of your family members who I never met? Tell you the kind of person he was? Feed you horse s#*t saying he took drugs and call him a liar too? All this and make up more for the public to read? You are way out of line. I KNOW what Steve's body is like naturally better than anyone because I have the same genetics...same broadness in shoulders and back and small waist, same eyes as Sylvester, Lester and Steve...and nose, face, and wavy thick hair, strong legs and overall strength... It's in my genes and my jeans, so don't tell me who and what my family is like. I have never taken any drugs except for an aspirin when I had a headache, so I know what's possible for a natural. I place no judgement on anyone who wants to take drugs to grow in size. That's a personal choice and I believe in freedom of choice...but I will not sit back and listen to some dumbass lie and make fun of my family and give me shit for trying to set the record straight to the younger people who didn't know Steve, but would have had interest if someone else hadn't slandered his name, bad mouthed and lied about him.
Anyone ripping down Steve must be angry about having bad genetics. If you felt good about how you looked, you wouldn't be ripping down one of the finest human beings whose hallmark was honesty and living naturally. You would be talking about how you love to train instead. Continue to bad mouth Steve Reeves...and you illustrate nothing but rude, sloppy, foolish disrespect and dishonesty. Tell the truth...and gain credibility.

All I see here, is someone who's vicariously living his life through others.

This is a blinker btw:



You should know that, since you were so close to Mr Reeves and he bred equines, right?

Dont know what math has to do with it, other than that, do a spell check on my posts, knock yourself out.

I'm not gonna stoop down to your level, that's not for this board, seems I struck a nerve though, as the possibility of a truth we deny, does(blinkers).

Suffice to say I and others have an opinion,  don't believe he was natural his whole life. As I pointed out, it doesn't detract from him as a bber, nor as a person. I always admired Reeves' physique, and heard he was a real gentleman. I think he is the forerunner of bbing as we would like it to be, fantastic shape on a perfect structure, every muscle developed just in its perfect element and harmony with the others, nothing out of place.

You on the other hand, seem to have unfulfilled aspirations, I know this guy, I'm related to that one...I really couldn't care less who you know. Name dropping and living life through others is an empty existence.

My point was made, and you have illustrated it. Go do a spell check after you finish telling a story how Steve actually acnowledged you the one time, and almost got your name right another.

Regarding my genes, I have no loss of sleep at night, nor do I quote relatives of mine and compare my hair, facial features and structure to theirs, I'd consider myself a loser then...having to live in someone else's shadow is very sad.

However, if I looked 1/10th as good as Mr Reeves, and took aas in order to achieve that goal, I would not have a prob in admitting it. However, someone with a rep to uphold, such as a legendary pro bber fro the IA, would. But, its up to us to separate truth from b.s. with a grain of salt.That, Made In Montana, is the whole point of this thread.

However, nobody has the blessing of genes that would enable them to look like Reeves. Unless... your great grandfather was Reeves' grandfather, and, only, if, but...ahhh, too late.
 

[Pollux]

Columbu also claims that he fully deserved both Olympias he won.

'76 Olympia, I'll buy.

'81 Olympia? I call bullshit! That one belonged to Danny Padilla. But when you got your 'best friend' as the promoter, how can you lose? 

[pumpster]

'76 Olympia, I'll buy.

'81 Olympia? I call bullshit! That one belonged to Danny Padilla. But when you got your 'best friend' as the promoter, how can you lose? 

Columbu looked good in '76, but was still never able to beat Oliva, Nubret and others. Basically him winning in '76 is something like the '84 Olympics without the Russians.

[Figo]

Suffice to say I and others have an opinion,  don't believe he was natural his whole life. As I pointed out, it doesn't detract from him as a bber, nor as a person. I always admired Reeves' physique, and heard he was a real gentleman. I think he is the forerunner of bbing as we would like it to be, fantastic shape on a perfect structure, every muscle developed just in its perfect element and harmony with the others, nothing out of place.However, someone with a rep to uphold, such as a legendary pro bber fro the IA(iron age), would. But, its up to us to separate truth from b.s. with a grain of salt.That, Made In Montana, is the whole point of this thread.

Made in Montana, you did not quote the other above bits, I believe they are pertinent. NOWHERE on this thread have I gone out to assault nor attack Reeves. As I said, he was a great bber, and we shouldn't denigrate his memory as he is no longer here to defend himself, I fully believe, and I'm not.
I'll say it again, wether he was on aas or not at any point in his career, does not take away from him as a man or bber, it is MY OPINION that many have taken, and then to keep up their image, negate it.
I wasn't even the first to bring up Reeves, I just started getting attacked by yourself, whom I sense have had this argument before.

How on earth, can we prove for sure anyone took steroids in the 40's, 50's, etc? How can I, prove that?
I can't, its all speculation, and over the years I've become cynical to comments from guys that they are natural, when in fact, they were not(as illustrated by Franco).

As for your attacks on me, having poor genes, taking drugs, and propagating rumours to feel better about myself, come on, take it easy, lighten up. Do I even take drugs? I'm just another guy on the internet expressing my view, not claiming to be or want to be anything. 

I'd like to believe Reeves and many others were completely natural, we all need inspiration like that to give us something real to strive for, believe in and admire. But over the years, believing a guy was nattie, it has become like believing in Santa Claus.

In all seriousness, if it upsets you this much, we'll stop discussing Reeves, as if I was a relative of his, and close to him, I'd be upset. I don't know his life, those who knew him did. I expressed my opinion, didn't set out to attack Reeves(this was a general topic), but you got a hard-on for me, so we pursued the topic...
Why don't you start a new thread or here, and post pics and relate stories if you knew him? Thats what this board is for, not too attack each other, leave that for the g&o section. Too emphasize my point here, if you look at the thread by gh15 on Reeves, I posted there several times my feelings re Steve Reeves(like anyone cares what I think about Reeves ,but you know what I mean).

To re-iterate, one gets pissed off swallowing b.s. all the time by those we admire, and we like to believe in something but sometimes get taken for fools, is the point of this thread, not S.R.'s aas past.

Take it easy.

[donrhummy]

Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.

[Figo]

Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.

True.

But a frame and genetic shape the kind he had, are another story altogether to duplicate.

[pumpster]

Who cares if Reeves used roids or not? Doesn't change the fact that I think his physique (and even one more muscular) is achievable naturally. I've known some people who took roids and had a lot less muscle than Reeves and others who were natural and had more muscle. Either way, Reeves had a great physique.

Well it's of interest to know, regardless of how he looked.

[Figo]

Made in Montana,

Let me try again, as there seems to be a communication gap here.

I did not set out to attack Reeves, someone else brought him up. But when I started getting attacked by yourself, then yes, I baited you.

I'm pretty sure you understand the point of this thread, and its not to denigrate Reeves.

Please do share your stories, memories and encounters with Reeves. Particularly his nutrition, training and views on bbing, and what he had to say about drugs use in bbing if anything. It would be very interesting to read.

I did not hear Reeves took drugs, I never said that. I have no sources, and never made anything up stating it as purported fact.

Oh, and any Serge Nubret stories would be nice too.

 

[pumpster]

It's hard to tell if Reeves used drugs. Without anything conclusive it would be better to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, especially that long ago.

[Figo]

When I said "the fact he took aas" it was not meaning I knew it as a fact or that it was 'factual'. If that is what you're saying is the statement and lie I made, then you've misunderstood, I said that meaning, that if he in fact did take anabolics, it does not take away from him, because so did everyone else, and he was head and shoulders above anyone else.
I hope that is cleared up, I am not and have no need to back track nor change my tune, as I too have admired Reeves for decades, and did not defamate nor state any facts, only speculated.

I hope that is out of the way, and we can carry on discussing the subject .


One last thing:

I came across this interesting bit of internet info(aka b.s./gossip/fact with a twist):


"Wendy Leigh's bio of Schwarzenegger (which makes a
convincing case and is thoroughly footnoted) states
that S. was first gym-mentored by Kurt Marnul, former
Mr. Austria. Marnul had learned of steroids from Steve
Reeves,early Mr. America and first movie Hercules (No.
1 box-office attraction in the world in 1961). Thus,
steroid usage dates back to the beginnings of
bodybuilding as an organized endeavor. Marnul told S.
it was not possible to make it in bodybuilding without
steroids; consequently, as S. told Rick Wayne, former
editor Muscle Builder/Power, he began using them at
the age of 13. "

Now, before you jump down my throat, this is only a quote.

Made in Montana, did Reeves even know Marnul, if so, how and why?
 

[tommywishbone]

"... Steve would strap a 5 gallon can on his back and run down to Zaragoza River, fill up the can and hike back up the hill while snipers shot at him..."


  OK, sounds good to me.

[alexxx]

Incredible wealth of information here.

Made in Montana obviously knows what he is talking about.

Hey Made in Montana can you tell me some of Steve Reeves feats of strength?

I think Steve is doing something like 160 pound inclines here.

[Bast000]

Incredible wealth of information here.

Made in Montana obviously knows what he is talking about.

Hey Made in Montana can you tell me some of Steve Reeves feats of strength?

I think Steve is doing something like 160 pound inclines here.

100lbs

[Cleanest Natural]

I think u madeinmontana should wake up and smell the roses because u are either lying or are dellusional. Read again the thread about Reeves that gh15 wrote....it's pretty self explanatory.