Ironage B.S. re old time use of steroids

[slaveboy1980]

Epic, get a clue

hahah continued epic naiveness. 

[slaveboy1980]

Epic stupidity, slaveboy (sorry, man...), but what else can I say.

Respect is something younger dudes are in sorry supply of, but then that's
the sign of the (sorry) times. All this negative nonsense about Reeves is a
pathetic testament to the cop-out that (nearly) suggests ANY and ALL
bodybuilders of any consequence surely took drugs (steroids). It's actually
beyond pathetic.

Try and use philosophy as the Greeks initiated, with reason, logic, and
deduction.

Get the I-pods out of your sorry asses and get a life. Try and contribute
something to this world and humanity with decency and common sense.

Using your common sense and deduction is like saying an apple came from
an orange seed.

Slaveboy--or anyone else in that persuasion--with all the respect I can
muster: Shut your piehole and go devour a Hercules (Reeves) movie along
with some book on philosophy...I think they may have them at Borders with
the cartoon pop-ups in the children's section.

do you draw these kind of conclusions about everyone that doesnt agree with your almost obsessed infatuation with mr reeves? 

i have seen most of his movies, and i have studied philosophy.

sad to say philosophy doesnt have an answer to the question if mr reeves used drugs.

i agree that you can look very good without using steroids. but when it comes to reeves its not a matter of how he looked its a matter of how the obsessed bodybuilders mind works.

all bodybuilders lie...even reeves who was a very insecure person who def tried aas....but like i said before he had very very good natural talent too.

[BEAST 8692]

do you draw these kind of conclusions about everyone that doesnt agree with your almost obsessed infatuation with mr reeves? 

i have seen most of his movies, and i have studied philosophy.

sad to say philosophy doesnt have an answer to question if mr reeves used drugs.

i agree that you can look very good without using steroids. but when it comes to reeves its not a matter of how he looked its a matter of how the obsessed bodybuilders mind works.
all bodybuilders lie...even reeves who was a very insecure person who def tried aas....but like i said before he had very very good natural talent too.

this is a very good point and i have been around the block with jay, stunt and others before about this.

when reeves was making his movies steroids were well known in the bodybuilding world and were considered a health tonic if anything. the secret weapon of the greatest strength athletes in the world and, of course, bbers.

it is certainly possible that reeves used steroids during his career, simply because they were available. the best athletes and bbers were most definitely kept in the loop and reeves was THE best and most famous bber.

reeves gets the same kind of obsessed old timer hero worship that john wayne got. they are worshipped as gods by these people who resent (see jay's post above) the modern world and pine for the perfect days of yesteryear where everything was apparently warm apple pie and blue berries. ffs even the world wars which killed billions worldwide are romanticised as an 'adventure with male bonding and heroes'.

humans have always done it and they probably always will, but factual retrospect is the darnedest thing.

john wayne was a closet bisexual that had a preferance for young boys and

reeves took whatever he had to take to stay on top, remaining true to his narcisistic nature to the very end.

now build a bridge already.

[trab]

   Damn, there's a lot more psychology in your business that everyday folks will ever know.

[Lord Humungous]

hahah continued epic naiveness. 

Epic assumptions without soild proof.

In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.

[BEAST 8692]

Epic assumptions without soild proof.

In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.

well, since nobody got any proof about cutler's 'drug cycles' we better give provide him the same rights and state that jay cutler has never taken bbing drugs.

[BEAST 8692]

  Damn, there's a lot more psychology in your business that everyday folks will ever know.

psychology is everything in my business my friend, but actions speak louder than words so hopefully it all comes together in a few weeks. 

[slaveboy1980]

Epic assumptions without soild proof.

In america we are innocent until proven guilty, sorry cat, no smoking gun linking Reeves to anything other than the gym.

haha epic thinking this is a court case.

[stuntmovie]

Agree with me or not but here's how it went with Reeves and his era regarding the steroid topic in question.

I lived it and knew Steve personally. I grew up in San Francisco and he was living across the Bay and every summer most every kid in the Bay Area would gather in a small spot on the Russian River called "Rio Nido". That was 72 miles north of San Francisco on a lazy river among some damn impressive Redwoods.

Rio Nido was the place to be during the summer months back then and the Friday and Saturday night dances drew every kid from the Bay Area if he/she had a car or a wayward thumb to hitch a ride. (I even roller skated up there once but only made it half way before my wooden wheels busted and I had to resort to a ride with some inebriated sailors who stopped at every road-side tavern along the way, leaving me in the car cause I was too young to have a beer.)

Anyway, Rio Nido was the place where Steve spend a few summer weekends and a few of us got to know him well.

Back then the world was nothing like it is today. And that goes for the kids of those days too. Drugs were taboo without exception. Our "drug" of choice and occasional availability was beer and wine. And for most of us, two glasses of either would do the trick and keep the party rolling!

Steve drank neither. Ever!

For the most part bodybuilders were an unknown entity unless one found himself looking at some pretty sleezy magazines  in less than respectable magazine stands on Market or Powell Streets in San Francisco. And the general thought among those "in the know" when it came to physical fitness was that excessive muscle would make you "musclebound" and unable to compete in sporting endeavors. So most of us kids in Rio Nido knew Steve as a damn impressive looking athlete with a great build and a shy and non-agressive attitude who didn't drink or party like the majority of the rest of us did on summer weekends among the  Rio Nido redwoods and jam-packed dance-hall.

One Sunday  morning while we were spending the summer in Rio Nido (my grandmother had a sumer home there) I read a four column article about Steve in an Oakland newspaper. I don't recall why the article was published but I do recall that it was his mother who was being interviewed and she spoke highly about her son. "He was very healthy and never had a cold or a cavity!"

And that's about all I can recall about that Oakland article.

After one summer in the mid 50's, we lost personal contact with Steve but someone always managed to keep us abreast of his activities ...... TV work on the Ralph Edwards Show and Burns and Allen, stage work in Kismit and the possibility of playing l'il Abner on Broadway, movies - Jailbait and Athena (in his best shape), and eventually Hercules.

Much later I caught up with Steve and we talked for a couple of hours about our teen age past in Northern California and his gradual success throughout the world. Most of that conversation centered arounnd the present day condition of the sport of bodybuilding which upset him quite a bit.

continued ... heading to the gym .....

[BEAST 8692]

good stuff.

keep it coming stunt...

[Figo]

they are worshipped as gods by these people who resent (see jay's post above) the modern world and pine for the perfect days of yesteryear where everything was apparently warm apple pie and blue berries. ffs even the world wars which killed billions worldwide are romanticised as an 'adventure with male bonding and heroes'.

humans have always done it and they probably always will, but factual retrospect is the darnedest thing.

That is the reason I started this thread, not to debate over nor denigrate anyone, including Reeves' memory.

Beast8692 put it very well. People romanticize far too much about the old days, when in fact some of these "idols" were some seriously disturbed people that would make our days scourge of society look like saints.

There were drugs in the old days, the guys used them. Only reason they didnt advance to todays extremes, is because they didnt know they could, nor know how, and the drugs became more extreme too. If you look back to the early 80's, two blocky structure individuals, that were known for their size to frame ratio, were Belknap and Fox, and already back then their waists were spilling over a bit, only thing is, Weider mags were very good at selecting and printing the right pics only in order to preserve their ideal image. The bbing champs of the 70's and 80's like everyone else at time, also took mind altering substances, they did g4p, they had criminal records, they sodomized small big-eyed furry animals... you get my point.  

[Figo]

john wayne was a closet bisexual that had a preferance for young boys and

Damn!

[BEAST 8692]

That is the reason I started this thread, not to debate over nor denigrate anyone, including Reeves' memory.

Beast8692 put it very well. People romanticize far too much about the old days, when in fact some of these "idols" were some seriously disturbed people that would make our days scourge of society look like saints.

There were drugs in the old days, the guys used them. Only reason they didnt advance to todays extremes, is because they didnt know they could, nor know how, and the drugs became more extreme too. If you look back to the early 80's, two blocky structure individuals, that were known for their size to frame ratio, were Belknap and Fox, and already back then their waists were spilling over a bit, only thing is, Weider mags were very good at selecting and printing the right pics only in order to preserve their ideal image. The bbing champs of the 70's and 80's like everyone else at time, also took mind altering substances, they did g4p, they had criminal records, they sodomized small big-eyed furry animals... you get my point.  

very true, but you got to admit stunt does type some very good stories. you never hear a bad word about anyone/anything from that era. even the wars are romanticised.

as far as his claims of kids never using drugs. lmfao, EVERYONE USED DRUGS. hell, there was cocaine in coca cola ffs. you could go sit in a chinese den and use smack. there was morphine and cocaine in health tonics and president kennedy used a concoction of amphetamines, steroids and cocaine during the cuban missile crisis.

wait another 60 years and people will be talking about how jay cutler drank warm milk and ate brussel sprouts and ronnie was a fine upstanding police officer that said no to drugs and yes to grits and bbq sauce.

[stuntmovie]

A quick note here before I head off .........

Don't forget - I'm talking 40's and 50's here and a bit of the early 60's and I was there in the thick of it the entire time and I have absolutely no reason to "glorify" anyone involved in this somewhat "unglorifiable" world of bodybuilding.

One BIG piont I'm trying to stress here that seems to go unnoticed is the fact that the 40's and the 50's were so much different from the times that followed and some of you appear to be looking at those early years of the sport through present day, non-rose colored, designer glasses.

For instance ... back then the only ones who could afford going to Europe for "age treatment sessions" (steroids, I assume) were the top notched movie stars whose youthful appearance on the silver screen produced thousands of dollars for the major movie studios - milllion dollar blockbusters were relatively unheard of back then. They had to age well to keep their status. And that required yearly trips to far off places. And major bundles of cash!

No matter what some of us think on here, in the 50's Steroids were not a major issue inside of and outside of local inner city Y's and the kids who frequented them on a daily basis. They were almost an unknown factor, but a remote possibility in war torn areas throughout Germany and further east.

Those who had the "inside scoop" said that they did exist but they didn't work. Some said that they did work but only because you THOUGHT they did (Placebo effect). Others said that if they worked, they'd only make you musclebound and unable to compete in your chosen athletic endeavor to your best advantage.

And the AMA officially stated that steroids absolutely do not work! (But they said it useing more precise medical terminology.)

And all this information and bullshit eventually filtered down to the dark and dank downtown Y basements where muscleheadz and "gymrats" usually gathered three times a week to hit the bags, throw medicine balls, pull roped iron pullies hanging on a wall,  juggle bowling pins, and shake their stomachs in belted vibrating machines. Followed by a half hour's sweat in a stinking steamroom and various claims of strength.

Meanwhile on the other side  of the Bay, a young kid by the name of Steve was hanging upside down from a pullup bar doing lat pulls and ab squeezes and curls and benches and squats and making impressive gains because he was born with the ability to do so. (Heredity was an unknown word among the "rats" back then!)

He heard the same shit we did about little pills that would produce loads of strength and eventual muscle, but .......

[Figo]

wait another 60 years and people will be talking about how jay cutler drank warm milk and ate brussel sprouts and ronnie was a fine upstanding police officer that said no to drugs and yes to grits and bbq sauce.

Well, actually, besides the hormones, they appear to lead very boring, clean lifestyles. I would venture to say cleaner than the Ironage guys, due to their focused lives centered around a goal.

[slaveboy1980]

Agree with me or not but here's how it went with Reeves and his era regarding the steroid topic in question.

I lived it and knew Steve personally. I grew up in San Francisco and he was living across the Bay and every summer most every kid in the Bay Area would gather in a small spot on the Russian River called "Rio Nido". That was 72 miles north of San Francisco on a lazy river among some damn impressive Redwoods.

Rio Nido was the place to be during the summer months back then and the Friday and Saturday night dances drew every kid from the Bay Area if he/she had a car or a wayward thumb to hitch a ride. (I even roller skated up there once but only made it half way before my wooden wheels busted and I had to resort to a ride with some inebriated sailors who stopped at every road-side tavern along the way, leaving me in the car cause I was too young to have a beer.)

Anyway, Rio Nido was the place where Steve spend a few summer weekends and a few of us got to know him well.

Back then the world was nothing like it is today. And that goes for the kids of those days too. Drugs were taboo without exception. Our "drug" of choice and occasional availability was beer and wine. And for most of us, two glasses of either would do the trick and keep the party rolling!

Steve drank neither. Ever!

For the most part bodybuilders were an unknown entity unless one found himself looking at some pretty sleezy magazines  in less than respectable magazine stands on Market or Powell Streets in San Francisco. And the general thought among those "in the know" when it came to physical fitness was that excessive muscle would make you "musclebound" and unable to compete in sporting endeavors. So most of us kids in Rio Nido knew Steve as a damn impressive looking athlete with a great build and a shy and non-agressive attitude who didn't drink or party like the majority of the rest of us did on summer weekends among the  Rio Nido redwoods and jam-packed dance-hall.

One Sunday  morning while we were spending the summer in Rio Nido (my grandmother had a sumer home there) I read a four column article about Steve in an Oakland newspaper. I don't recall why the article was published but I do recall that it was his mother who was being interviewed and she spoke highly about her son. "He was very healthy and never had a cold or a cavity!"

And that's about all I can recall about that Oakland article.

After one summer in the mid 50's, we lost personal contact with Steve but someone always managed to keep us abreast of his activities ...... TV work on the Ralph Edwards Show and Burns and Allen, stage work in Kismit and the possibility of playing l'il Abner on Broadway, movies - Jailbait and Athena (in his best shape), and eventually Hercules.

Much later I caught up with Steve and we talked for a couple of hours about our teen age past in Northern California and his gradual success throughout the world. Most of that conversation centered arounnd the present day condition of the sport of bodybuilding which upset him quite a bit.

continued ... heading to the gym .....

all you said in that post actually indicates steve had a dark side, which inluded letting older gay men touch him, and him using steroids.

[trab]

StuntMovie, you may have missed your calling. Your a good writer.
Lets hear some more.

I think that most people simply cant handle the truth about their sports heros.
Fact is they are the best of the best to start, and many many of them have slightly twisted personalities,  driven to extremes to allways be even better.
   When your competing against those w/ a "edge", Its only NATURAL to at least match it.
Shit, the kind of obsessive personality it takes to get to the top will accept NO Limit.
Its a challenge.

I'm nothing special myself. I'm a busted up 46 yr old const worker, Iron pumper. If I can handle a bucket full of steroid, what ya think professional athletes use? Steve could be either way. I dont see it as denigrating him
either way. Lying about the subject is just standard.

IF he did Some Deca and Dbol tabs and test and HCG it dont diminish his early achievements one little bit IMO.

The whole Steroid "controversy" revolves around a bunch of frustrated Natural lifters too chicken shit to
do what it takes to actually approach their goals and true physical ideal.
 SO, they create a steroid boogie man excuse for their shortcomings. 
If only they took steroids, they to would look like a IFBB Pro  .
What a joke that is.
Bunch of chicken Wana-be juicers.

[Lord Humungous]

well, since nobody got any proof about cutler's 'drug cycles' we better give provide him the same rights and state that jay cutler has never taken bbing drugs.

Great logic Sherlock, the whole jist of what I was saying that any motivated lifter with very good genetics could achieve what Steve Reeves did.

haha epic thinking this is a court case.

Epic making accusations with out proof.

[stuntmovie]

Interesting observations and comments, Trab, but I beg to differ with ya and will elaborate on that in a future posting. Right now I want to finish up on my ancient Steve recollections before they are completely forgotten due to a wiltering of my FTOP lobes. (Something I never forgot from Psyche 1A).

Let me just say here that lying about steroids and  other topics of interest was definitely not STANDARD back in those days. There was no reason to lie about steroid use back then. There was nothing illegal about useing roids. Later and once roid use became somewhat common and acceptable in the early 60's, no one cared or even attempted  to keep the subject under wraps unless they were introduced to a special "cocktail"  (decca and anavar?) and planned to use it to overcome the competition.

And it took a few years more to come to the conclusion that "more was better" and the Gurus appeared on the scene.

Enuff on that subject.... Back to that kid over in the Oakland area who was training at Yarick's and getting lots of attention whenever he appeared in public.

Once again - back then drug usage was anathema and severly looked down upon and no sensible teenage ever gave a thought to such things as MJ or prescription drugs. The worst I can recall was cooking a banana peel in the oven to dry it and roll it into something that resembled a "joint" and smoke it to get a buzz. Another was an asperin and a Coca Cola.

We tired both the above without noticeable results and soon simply got one or two of the older looking buds to do his best to buy a six-pack of beer and a jug of wine from Black or Chinese liquor store owners in the Filmore district or further down in Chinatown.  Sometimes we were successful, but most times we were simply embarrassed by the laughter of everyone of age in that liquor store.

Getting laughed out of a liquor store was not a happy feeling way back then.

The only people doing MJ and other drugs were playing sax or drums in dark San Francisco nightclubs or singing the Blues
at upright pianos in less than friendly neighborhood taverns and no respectable teenager ever entered those "dens of inequity". Even the worst of us refused to take that step. ANd I personally knew the worse of the worst because I fit that category through most of my teen age years.

But even so, and looking back now, it appears that we still had one or both feet in the Victorian age.

Even movies such as "The Outlaw" and "The Moon is Blue" were strictly verboten as they were claimed to be morally corrupt.

But changes were on the horizon and it started with the Hippies and some pretty foolish poetry and dirty coffee houses! And shortly thereafter the whole "Victorian world" fell apart dragging the majority of us into unknown territory.

Steve and those in his age group grew up in that old style Victorian atmosphere when "right" was clearly defined and most everyone walked the straight and narrow mainly because there was no other "path" to follow. No one was there to lead us astray!

Not just yet, anyway!

Fights were common because we were expected to fight back when hit by a well thrown fist  and fight even harder when one's good name was smeared in public. And it got even worse when someone said anyting offensive about the girl you were presently dating. True or false - it made no difference.

Chivelry was still alive but fading fast and it was hard to see it happening.

But now, looking back, it's evident that times were really very different wayback then - just a few steps away from when gentlemen dueled with pistols at dawn and men never smoked in the presence of ladies.

Steve was actually one of the better of the "good Victorian type guys". The strong and silent type who didn't party much at all. Never drank! Never smoked! Never had a cold! Never had a cavity! And even got his shit kicked out a couple of times in fights that I'll always claim were less than fair.

Continued ....

[stuntmovie]

OK, so I hope you believe me about times being somewhat "victorian" when Steve was in his teenage years and that Steve was really one of the good guys in this relatively responsible world of Victorian values.

Back then I was strong, but unlike Steve, I was not silent. I partied and drank and smoked pretty consistantly. And I had my share of colds and cavities.

I hate to admit it but I wasn't too much like Steve at all but I think I trained my butt off just as hard and I can honestly state with lots of pride that Steve came to watch me train one time in a dungeon in downtown SF (Golden Gate Avenue)called American Health Studios. That's an honest fact that I'll explain later.

And I never did get the shit kicked out of me in a fight ... fair or otherwise.

And even though I was just about Steve's complete opposite, I never gave a thought to an involvement with MJ or drugs of any sort at all - just those asperins in Coca Colas to be truthful with ya all.

Those kinds of drug thoughts were yet to be in our vocabulary. Even the worst of us were too tied up in our Victorian upbringing to step beyond those bounds.

So... I am entirely convinced that Steve never got involved with roids in any manner whatsoever.

And I can further attest to the fact that he was deeply saddened while we discussed this subject during a three hour limousine sightseeing tour around the island of Oahu in Hawaii He never saw those beautiful sites because he was too involved expressing his personal feelings about the use of roids and how that useage was ruining the world of bodybuilding.

Thanks for listening. Sorry for the long post but these are things I had to say in honor of a great person who made his personal mark on the world of bodybuilding like no one else ever has or probably ever will do.

And if you knew the man and the times in lived in, I am sure that your would certainly agree.

If you judge a man of the 50's by the standards of today, you'll cetainly miss your mark.

Try shooting from a shorter distance.

[Figo]

but because he was so tall and his bone structure and frame was very large with uncommonly broad shoulders/back...people have to find a way to say it's not possible to put muscle on that and call it natural. You could carve him clean to the bone and his skeleton is still larger than many on steroids. That's where the jealousy comes in...and some have a hard time accepting that genetics, which is uncontrollable and largely unfair at times, give some an edge...and others a disadvantage. Some will even say bad things about Steve that aren't true just to make themselves feel better and their intentions are obvious, but for those who knew Steve...it doesn't matter what anyone says. Steve was honest, solid, healthy and he knew how to train and eat. Period.

If you cant beat them or join them, shoot 'em down. Whatever makes them sleep better at night, MinM...

[trab]

I appreciate the consideration and fairness you and some of the guys here have for Steve. You guys back in the 40s had no special advantages...

Oh, they had some advantages....
                                    That being they only had basic equipment and natural food.
The frauds had not arrived and turned it into big money biz, selling worthless bullshit "supplements", preaching
insane diet and training methods, gyms full of Shiny equipment taht is largely inferior to BB's and DB's.

And they also benefited by not having todays widespread belief that its pointless to even START training w/ out drugs.
(And massive doses at that)

But, its rather gut turning to have people think they know the intimate character of their "Star" Hero's.
They are human, and unless your family, we dont have a clue. I know MANY "Pillars" of my community that are outright
pieces of shit when it comes down to it.

I'm not putting down Steve, but this Glorification bit of stars allways makes me a bit queasy.

Put him in perspective, a early body builder w/ a great build. Going on about Bone structure etc is kind of funny.
If we put Steve's Skeleton next to Mr Rhule or some others today, there be no compare.

Yeah, I think BBing today is not a pretty sight anymore when we crown Jay king, but still, Reves next to him is like a
1950's race car compared to  Ferrari's latest FI ride.

[slaveboy1980]

Great logic Sherlock, the whole jist of what I was saying that any motivated lifter with very good genetics could achieve what Steve Reeves did.

Epic making accusations with out proof.

haha monster blue eyed sentimentality.

[slaveboy1980]

If Steve had been 5'4"...no matter how wide he was, no one would be in here contemplating whether or not he did drugs because his overall size would be not that remarkable...but because he was so tall and his bone structure and frame was very large with uncommonly broad shoulders/back...people have to find a way to say it's not possible to put muscle on that and call it natural. You could carve him clean to the bone and his skeleton is still larger than many on steroids. That's where the jealousy comes in...and some have a hard time accepting that genetics, which is uncontrollable and largely unfair at times, give some an edge...and others a disadvantage. Some will even say bad things about Steve that aren't true just to make themselves feel better and their intentions are obvious, but for those who knew Steve...it doesn't matter what anyone says. Steve was honest, solid, healthy and he knew how to train and eat. Period.

it has nothing to do with jealousy or thinking that reeves physqiue cant be attained without drugs...as i already said.

it has to do with the mindset of a obsessed narcissistic person such as reeves.


 

[stuntmovie]

Made in Montana, Where did you get that picture? That was taken on the North Shore of Oahu (now a Boy Scout camp) as far as I can recall and I have one taken within minutes of that one with a relaxed Steve looking down the beach.

Are you the fan of Steve's who lives or used to live in Las Vegas?

That's George Eifferman on the far left. Other guy looks like Mickey H. but that's definitely not Tommy Kono (someone here at the house taking a guess) whom I believe lived in Sacramento around that time. (Not sure about that though!)

A few years before George passed away, he and his wife presented me with a Gold Eifferman Medallion. While George placed it around my neck, his wife leaned into my ear and said, "George is real selective on whom he gives these to and you've certainly deserved it". I've received combat metals where words were not appreciated as much as hers.

Sorry but I forgot the ladie's name in that photo above.

Thanks for reading this stuff, Montana. And others too.

There's a lot of BB history out there that should be written down before us old timers head to Greener Pastures. Some stuff I gotta with-hold (so I've been warned). Maybe one day I'll "braven up" and shoot the works.