Weak chest...after 8 years.

[lilbg]

Ive been lifting on and off for the past 8 years and ive never been happy with my chest.  Espcially now that im cutting and what chest I did have is almost gone.  Ive always been a shoulder presser and I need some ideas on how to isolate more of my chest.  Especially the inner and upper area.  I normally do Flat bench barbell, incline DB, weighted dips and flys for my routine.  I will mix it up from time to time and have varried my reps from high to low but in the end my shoulders look great and my triceps look good but my chest is left lacking.  Im done worrying about what I bench and would rather have a better build.  Thanks for any advice.

BG

[The Squadfather]

you've probsably heard this a million times but make sure your body is set up properly before your sets of presses, pinch your shoulder blades together underneath you and push your chest up, this will help to keep your shoulders down and put most of the emphasis on your chest, EVERYONE uses some shoulder and triceps when they press it's just the way the human body works but just imagine when you press that your bringing your chest up to meet the bar not bringing the bar down to meet the chest, maybe try some pre exhaust as well doing a set of flyes before you do a set of presses.

[thewickedtruth]

you've probsably heard this a million times but make sure your body is set up properly before your sets of presses, pinch your shoulder blades together underneath you and push your chest up, this will help to keep your shoulders down and put most of the emphasis on your chest, EVERYONE uses some shoulder and triceps when they press it's just the way the human body works but just imagine when you press that your bringing your chest up to meet the bar not bringing the bar down to meet the chest, maybe try some pre exhaust as well doing a set of flyes before you do a set of presses.

Couldn't have said it better bro.

[lilbg]

You are right, I've always been told to pinch the shoulders back and when I do I cant bench as much so it always frustrating.  Now that I dont care about my numbers so much its something I will work on.  I started doing some "holds" on my last set.  Ill take 205 down to my chest and hold it for a 5-7 second count and press it back up.  This seems to create the most pump and burn for me.  Im starting to wonder if I should throw some regular pushups into my routine.  I talked to a huge asian guy in the gym a few years back who told me to always keep pushups in my routine.  He explained it helps keep the chest boxed up.  Not sure exactly what he meant but I probably should have stuck wtih it longer then I did. 

[thewickedtruth]

You are right, I've always been told to pinch the shoulders back and when I do I cant bench as much so it always frustrating.  Now that I dont care about my numbers so much its something I will work on.  I started doing some "holds" on my last set.  Ill take 205 down to my chest and hold it for a 5-7 second count and press it back up.  This seems to create the most pump and burn for me.  Im starting to wonder if I should throw some regular pushups into my routine.  I talked to a huge asian guy in the gym a few years back who told me to always keep pushups in my routine.  He explained it helps keep the chest boxed up.  Not sure exactly what he meant but I probably should have stuck wtih it longer then I did. 

Why hold so long at the bottom? holding that off you for that long anyway has got to be taxing! I pause no more than a 2 count then press back up.

[The Squadfather]

Why hold so long at the bottom? holding that off you for that long anyway has got to be taxing! I pause no more than a 2 count then press back up.

yeah i agree there's no reason to pause the weigh that long, if he paused for maybe a count of one or two he could probably use a little more weight for them but if it works for him so be it.

[pumpster]

Try a few other things, only continue current exercises if by using variations suggested here the exercises are felt in the chest. On presses and in fact all chest & lat exercises, you want minimum forearm motion and maximum upper arm movement.

Keep this in mind while pressing, try doing them without hitting the top part of ROM, which is more for tris. If you do this right the upper arms will follow a ROM something like flys, and the elbows are a bigger part of the motion than the hands are. Just as with lats, you want the elbows/upper arms involved, with as little forearm motion as possible.

-If you're serious, don't train "on & off", be consistent. Hit the chest twice weekly, doing it first in the workout.

-Intensity; should be going to positive failure virtually every set, into negative failure using some of the techniques below on one set per exercises.


Take a break from BB bench if it's not working, do DB presses instead, IF you feel them in the muscles. Sometimes use a standard grip, sometimes use a hammer/neutral palms facing in grip. Also try varying the grip width from shoulders to wider than that. If none of this is felt in the chest, do other things than presses; some people get nothing out of presses and never do them.

Also try:

-Cable flys

-Cable crossovers

-Pec Deck


All of the above if done properly isolate the chest more by focusing on upper arm motion, not forearms. Forearm motion has to do with triceps, not chest.

-Pushups but using resistance

-Smith machine presses

-Chest superset using any two consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Chest triset using any three consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Rest-pause reps after failure

-Partials; try 2/3 range on lower and upper ROM

-Negatives

-Get rid of any/all current chest exercises that don't work, including dips and presses. Keep only what is felt in the muscle. Make sure the dips are done leaning forward with the elbows doing the work not the arms-use a fly motion that exaggerates movement of the upper arms not the forearms.

-Try different rep ranges; 8-12 is best IMO. Rest no longer than a minute between sets.

[sandpiper]

Try a few other things, only continue current exercises if by using variations suggested here they're actually felt in the muscle. On presses and in fact all chest exercises, you want maximum upper arm movement and minimum forearm motion/arm extension. Keep this in mind while pressing, and try doing them without hitting the top or bottom ROM. If you do this right the upper arms will follow a ROM something like flys, and the elbows are a bigger part of the motion than the hands are. Just as with lats, you want the elbows more involved.

Take a break from BB bench if it's not working, do DB presses instead, IF you feel them in the muscles. Sometimes use a standard grip, sometimes use a hammer/neutral palms facing in grip. Also try varying the grip width from shoulders to wider than that. If none of this is felt in the chest, do other things than presses; some people get nothing out of presses and never do them.

Also try:

-Cable flys

-Cable crossovers

-Pec Deck


All of the above if done properly isolate the chest more by focusing on upper arm motion, not forearms. Forearm motion has to do with triceps, not chest.

-Pushups but using resistance

-Smith machine presses

-Chest superset using any two consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Chest triset using any three consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Rest-pause reps after failure

-Partials; try 2/3 range on lower and upper ROM

-Negatives

-If you're serious, don't train "on & off", be consistent. Try hitting chest twice weekly if not already done, doing it first in the workout.

-Get rid of any/all current chest exercises that don't work, including dips and presses. Keep only what is felt in the muscle. Make sure the dips are done leaning forward with the elbows doing the work not the arms-use a fly motion that exaggerates movement of the upper arms not the forearms.

-Try different rep ranges; 8-12 is best IMO. Rest no longer than a minute between sets.

I was going to say; if you've been lifting for 8 years and you just now are getting sick of the results? How old are you man?

[pumpster]

I was going to say; if you've been lifting for 8 years and you just now are getting sick of the results? How old are you man?

Exactly; get serious including no more training "on & off". Twice a week chest, each week. High intensity, positive failure most sets, negative failure one set per exercise.

[lilbg]

Im 28... started when I was 20 and weighed 125lbs... im short 5'4" and could barely bench what I weighed when I started.  Ive gotten up to a 300lb one rep max and weighing as much as 170 although im down to about 158 right now (cutting).  It was on and off becuase of injury.  I had an inner carpal sprain (sp?) in my wrist that prevented me from picking up anything and it took almost a year and a half of doing no lifting for the pain to finally go away.  I was going to have surgery but decided to wait it out.  I feel good now tho.  The "holds" done at the end of my flat bench routine I really like.  I feel the most pump out of this vs. anything else I have tried.  Im going to try all the things listed above because im open to anything when it comes to lifting.  Thanks for your advice guys.  Hopefully I can make a long run of things this time around without problems.  My dips are done leaning forward and with weight.  I was keeping my reps low for a while 5x5 but only seemed to get stronger but not bigger.  I used to supetset years ago before my joints started crapping on me.  I may give that a shot again also.

[pumpster]

Im 28... started when I was 20 and weighed 125lbs... im short 5'4" and could barely bench what I weighed when I started.  Ive gotten up to a 300lb one rep max and weighing as much as 170 although im down to about 158 right now (cutting).  It was on and off becuase of injury.  I had an inner carpal sprain (sp?) in my wrist that prevented me from picking up anything and it took almost a year and a half of doing no lifting for the pain to finally go away.  I was going to have surgery but decided to wait it out.  I feel good now tho.  The "holds" done at the end of my flat bench routine I really like.  I feel the most pump out of this vs. anything else I have tried.  Im going to try all the things listed above because im open to anything when it comes to lifting.  Thanks for your advice guys.  Hopefully I can make a long run of things this time around without problems.  My dips are done leaning forward and with weight.  I was keeping my reps low for a while 5x5 but only seemed to get stronger but not bigger.  I used to supetset years ago before my joints started crapping on me.  I may give that a shot again also.

Joints will usually be a problem with low reps, especially with age and won't maximize development. Stay with reps in the 8-12 range, max. one minute between sets to keep the pump and warmth in there.

[candidate2025]

squadfather was right.

but i would just like to throw this out there=  It IS possible to push the barbell up with only a pectorial contraction.   

it just takes fucking jedi like concentration/mind-muscle connection.


or...you can smoke a joint before the gym.

back when i used to do drugs all the time, and smoked weed every day..i would go to the gym fucking lit out of my mind on a daily basis, and that is where i first learned how to isolate chest from shoulders/tris, back from bis/rear delts, shoulders from traps/triceps, quads from hamies/glutes...ect.      and because of my experiences working out BLOWN, i now have the ability to concentrate and isolate just as i would have when i was BLOWN.      the secret is to completely clear your mind of everything entirely, then put every single ounce of thought you have into the MUSCLE you are working out, make sure its the MUSCLE too; not the weight, not the bone the muscle is attached to, not any of the "supporting muscles" that normally would help, relax every thing in your body except that muscle you are contracting, and let it pussh oor pull the bone its connected to, which in turn pushes or pulls the weight you are holding on to. remember, visualize your hands just as hooks, that are holding on to weight to make your desired muscle contraction have more tension.


this method requires a total lack of "gym" ego", and absolutely no worries about the amount of weight you are using. although, after you get a hang of it; you will be using alot more weight than normal.

[Mike]

but i would just like to throw this out there=  It IS possible to push the barbell up with only a pectorial contraction.   

it just takes fucking jedi like concentration/mind-muscle connection.


or...you can smoke a joint before the gym.

back when i used to do drugs all the time, and smoked weed every day..i would go to the gym fucking lit out of my mind on a daily basis, and that is where i first learned how to isolate chest from shoulders/tris, back from bis/rear delts, shoulders from traps/triceps, quads from hamies/glutes...ect.      and because of my experiences working out BLOWN, i now have the ability to concentrate and isolate just as i would have when i was BLOWN.      the secret is to completely clear your mind of everything entirely, then put every single ounce of thought you have into the MUSCLE you are working out, make sure its the MUSCLE too; not the weight, not the bone the muscle is attached to, not any of the "supporting muscles" that normally would help, relax every thing in your body except that muscle you are contracting, and let it pussh oor pull the bone its connected to, which in turn pushes or pulls the weight you are holding on to. remember, visualize your hands just as hooks, that are holding on to weight to make your desired muscle contraction have more tension.


this method requires a total lack of "gym" ego", and absolutely no worries about the amount of weight you are using. although, after you get a hang of it; you will be using alot more weight than normal.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[candidate2025]

i dont?

why dont you correct me then.

[Mike]

i dont?

why dont you correct me then.

It would be impossible to use only your Pectorals to lift a bar off of your chest or, for any practical application, push anything no matter how high you are or how much you concentrate.

Now, there can be a level of isolation that Squadfather and Pumpster talked about where as you put your body in an ideal position to "feel" it more in your chest, that's about as isolated as you can get, a feeling.

[candidate2025]

so your saying its impossible for your pectorial muscle to contract, and in doing so pulling the humer bone forward, witout at the same time contracting the tricep and pulling the raidiu/ulna combo in?

no, yu are false.

shut your goddamn mouth, you ignorant prick.

[The Squadfather]

Try a few other things, only continue current exercises if by using variations suggested here the exercises are felt in the chest. On presses and in fact all chest & lat exercises, you want minimum forearm motion and maximum upper arm movement.

Keep this in mind while pressing, try doing them without hitting the top part of ROM, which is more for tris. If you do this right the upper arms will follow a ROM something like flys, and the elbows are a bigger part of the motion than the hands are. Just as with lats, you want the elbows/upper arms involved, with as little forearm motion as possible.

-If you're serious, don't train "on & off", be consistent. Hit the chest twice weekly, doing it first in the workout.

-Intensity; should be going to positive failure virtually every set, into negative failure using some of the techniques below on one set per exercises.


Take a break from BB bench if it's not working, do DB presses instead, IF you feel them in the muscles. Sometimes use a standard grip, sometimes use a hammer/neutral palms facing in grip. Also try varying the grip width from shoulders to wider than that. If none of this is felt in the chest, do other things than presses; some people get nothing out of presses and never do them.

Also try:

-Cable flys

-Cable crossovers

-Pec Deck


All of the above if done properly isolate the chest more by focusing on upper arm motion, not forearms. Forearm motion has to do with triceps, not chest.

-Pushups but using resistance

-Smith machine presses

-Chest superset using any two consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Chest triset using any three consecutive chest exercises without rest.

-Rest-pause reps after failure

-Partials; try 2/3 range on lower and upper ROM

-Negatives

-Get rid of any/all current chest exercises that don't work, including dips and presses. Keep only what is felt in the muscle. Make sure the dips are done leaning forward with the elbows doing the work not the arms-use a fly motion that exaggerates movement of the upper arms not the forearms.

-Try different rep ranges; 8-12 is best IMO. Rest no longer than a minute between sets.

excellent advice as usual by Pumpster, pec decks, cables and especially dips are excellent alternatives to heavy presses, like Pump said some guys simply don't feel presses, don't be afraid to experiment, db's are great also, heavy db flyes are an excellent movement that a lot of guys neglect, do them heavy for sets of 6-8 as a change to the typical light sets and bendyour elbows a little to handle the extra weight, you should be able to work up to 80-90 pound db's eventually.

[Overload]

so your saying its impossible for your pectorial muscle to contract, and in doing so pulling the humer bone forward, witout at the same time contracting the tricep and pulling the raidiu/ulna combo in?

Yes.

By extending the forearm while pulling the "humer" bone forward you will be contracting the triceps and several other muscles. you would have to keep your upper arm and forearm completely still to "attempt" to isolate the pecs, this is the theory behind flyes.

you cannot isolate ANY muscle in your body...even flyes involve the delts, biceps and lats.

i'm a Kinesiology major so don't bother argueing.

Squadfather gave the best advice.

[sandpiper]

so your saying its impossible for your pectorial muscle to contract, and in doing so pulling the humer bone forward, witout at the same time contracting the tricep and pulling the raidiu/ulna combo in?

no, yu are false.

shut your goddamn mouth, you ignorant prick.

i love how there is ALWAYS a meltdown and/or pissing match on here. we could be talking about the weather in fvcking Antarctica and some of you suckers of c*ck would still end up bitching. just like women...

[Mike]

Yes.

By extending the forearm while pulling the "humer" bone forward you will be contracting the triceps and several other muscles. you would have to keep your upper arm and forearm completely still to "attempt" to isolate the pecs, this is the theory behind flyes.

you cannot isolate ANY muscle in your body...even flyes involve the delts, biceps and lats.

i'm a Kinesiology major so don't bother argueing.

Squadfather gave the best advice.

Thanks Overload, exactly what I said, listen to Squadfathers advice and only post about things you know about.

Also, nice meltdown

[pumpster]

Yes.

By extending the forearm while pulling the "humer" bone forward you will be contracting the triceps and several other muscles. you would have to keep your upper arm and forearm completely still to "attempt" to isolate the pecs, this is the theory behind flyes.

you cannot isolate ANY muscle in your body...even flyes involve the delts, biceps and lats.

i'm a Kinesiology major so don't bother argueing.

Squadfather gave the best advice.

Don't want to get in to it again with this guy, because he takes it personally and ends up melting all because he actually believes that having a degree and some experience makes his views 100% accurate and beyond debate. Basically he's not open to other opinions on here, except to "correct" others LOL. Someone else has a degree and thinks this way: George Bush has a master's degree from Harvard & believes he's absolutely right.

This theory about being unable to isolate the muscle's something brought up by various internet "experts". Said along with various explanations that are nothing more than one point of view. Whatever the cute theories, it's completely possible in practice to highly isolate a certain area of muscle. In real terms, regardless of what the theory says.

As far as what candidate says, it's all part of focusing on the muscle being worked-mental and physical is better than one or the other they're not mutually exclusive. Don't have to exactly follow his weed smoking to do it, whatever works to get there & focus on the muscle, usually a combo of mental focus as he says, and physically trying to move the anatomy in certain directions to accomplish as much intensity on a certain area as possible.

[lilbg]

Pumpster, Whats your opinion on pullovers?  Worth it?

[pumpster]

Pumpster, Whats your opinion on pullovers?  Worth it?

One of the best lat exercises, especially either machine pullovers or an approximation: seated or lying ab strap pullovers using a lat pulley or low pulley, or with the straps attached to a chin bar pulling up with the same pullover ROM. Takes the secondary arm muscles out of it, one of the best lat exercises, period. Standard DB or pulley pullovers are still good even though there's more arm muscle involvement.

As far as chest, IMO it hits the area only secondarily though some claim it hits their chest more than i feel it.

[candidate2025]

As far as what candidate says, it's all part of focusing on the muscle being worked-mental and physical is better than one or the other they're not mutually exclusive. Don't have to exactly follow his weed smoking to do it, whatever works to get there & focus on the muscle, usually a combo of mental focus as he says, and physically trying to move the anatomy in certain directions to accomplish as much intensity on a certain area as possible.

tru dat.

overload, "extending the ulna" see, thats your probelm right there. you are not supposed to be extending the ulna, your are extending the humerous, as a result of a pectorial contraction, all of the others muscles should be completely relaxed; except of course, your hand muscles, wich should be only doing enough to balance the weight atop of your arm, as to put tension on the muscle.   your triceps and front delts should be COMPLETELY reaxed while youw okrout your chest.

[jpm101]

Might want to go over to the History-Stories board and check out Lats McGee thread on Gironda. You interest  may be drawn to the "V" bar and the advantage of using that for pec development (chin  on chest, concaved body, etc). Than explore other sites about the Gironda methods (T-Nation used to have  a good article(s)...maybe still do). Gironda used the wide grip bench press to the neck also. Though an excellent movement, less weight should be used and a spotter on hand. Full stretch (with a BB) that you would not normally get the regular way. This exercise is not for everyone, but might give it a try. Apply caution when using it at first, go light.

Even the way the hands are turned or the grip held on the usual pec exercises can have a different effect on the pec's. DB's seem to produce better results than a  BB for this. Actually the regular BP is a  poor pec builder for most guy's.  More direct stress can be put on the pec's with a pec deck. Use the type of pec deck where the elbows are resting on pad's and the motion is inline with the upper shoulders. The pec decks, where you grip the handles way out, are less affective. Good luck.

I have seen (and felt) very good results with wide dips, where the knuckles of the hand are facing straight ahead rather than to the sides. Better stretch and greater influence on the pec's thenselve.