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Author Topic: Cycle questions  (Read 1468 times)
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« on: July 21, 2007, 05:34:54 PM »

This is my first real bulking cycle, I've done 3 oral cycles and a test/tren/winny cycle previously. I started the cycle off at 210 and I am now 215 at 5'7".

Here is what's going on with my cycle.

I started at around 600 mgs of test a week and ramped it up to 250mgs eod, so 825mg ew. I was running sust and cyp for about 4 weeks until I ran out of sust. I started with 400 mgs of eq and ramped it up to 600 after two weeks. Then I started with 50 mgs of dbol and ran that for about 5 weeks, also during this time I upped the eq to 700 mgs.

To summarize:
test 825 ew
eq 700 ew
dbol 50 ed

I gained a couple of reps on a few exercises before adding the dbol. On the dbol, I saw some big strength increases but no weight gain. I ran some slin a few times and that got me to gain some weight but some of it was fat.

I cycled off the dbol and made no increases in strength while on the eq/test, strength and weight stayed the same for like 8 weeks. I ran out of eq, and was about to start on some decca, but had trouble scoring.
While off the eq and on test only, my strength has been dropping.

Could the test be underdosed? Was the eq underdosed? Could I just not be eating enough? My appetite is less than it was off cycle, the eq hasn't increased my appetite at all and the dbol pratically killed it.

Should I be taking larger doses? I am very small boned, so 215 lbs on me is a lot of muscle. It is getting very unusual for me to go a day without someone commenting on my muscularity.
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Arnold jr
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2007, 06:23:28 PM »

3 things.

1st, the problem is most likely what you already said, and that is you're not eating enough. Pretty simple, eat more...the best way to do this IMO is to eat more meals, not increasing the meals you already eat. if you are a hardgainer, or you've reached a point to where you are one now, then you may very well be one of these guys who needs to eat 8+ times per day.

2nd, add more fats to your diet and I guarantee you'll grow. Too many people negate the advantage of fats in their diets IMO. many people when they hit a plateau will simply eat more carbs, and to an extent this can be beneficial, but more times then not more fats is the key...I learned this the hard way.

3rd, stay away from slin. You said you used it before and put on fat. Well, this is what slin will do to most people, so they should not be using it. Unless you're a top level competitor making a living from BB, I simply don't see any advantage in using it.
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2007, 06:35:48 PM »


2nd, add more fats to your diet and I guarantee you'll grow. Too many people negate the advantage of fats in their diets IMO. many people when they hit a plateau will simply eat more carbs, and to an extent this can be beneficial, but more times then not more fats is the key...I learned this the hard way.

I tried eating hamburgers and fries a few times early in my cycle and it seemed to make me fat. Maybe it was water from all the sodium? What foods do you get your fat from? I supplement with EFAs, have a couple of egg yokes each day and sometimes take a tablespoon or two of sodium-free peanut butter.
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BodyMachine
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2007, 06:51:46 PM »

No expert but I would take it that salmon, peanut butter (natural kind not Skippy or other sugar filled brands), quality beef (ground, or steak), nuts, and olive oil are all good source of fat. I would avoid french fries and burgers because they use low quality beef in most fast food establishments.
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trab
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2007, 07:31:27 PM »

I tried eating hamburgers and fries a few times early in my cycle and it seemed to make me fat. Maybe it was water from all the sodium? What foods do you get your fat from? I supplement with EFAs, have a couple of egg yokes each day and sometimes take a tablespoon or two of sodium-free peanut butter.

I think Fast food protine qality is veery POOR!
Spend the time to cook high qyality beef if/ when you can, if trying to bulk.
Theres also a point that gains kind of stop. Time for a rest, off ass for awhile then. Its like rebooting a computer.
Come on hard after a rest is my Fav.
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2007, 09:30:39 PM »

I tried eating hamburgers and fries a few times early in my cycle and it seemed to make me fat. Maybe it was water from all the sodium? What foods do you get your fat from? I supplement with EFAs, have a couple of egg yokes each day and sometimes take a tablespoon or two of sodium-free peanut butter.
BodyMachine is on the right path. When i say add in more fats, that does not mean eat crap...you still want quality. All the foods he mentioned are fine, I'd also add in cashews, almonds, walnuts, etc (preferably raw, not roasted.) Further, don't limit yourself to a couple of eggs per day. Eggs are one of the most valuable foods out there. Their protein rating is top among all foods containing protein, and they are packed full of healthy fats...to get the full benefit, buy omega-3 eggs instead of regular. the difference in these is that the chickens are fed things like flax seed rather then corn meal like most chickens are...and they only cost about 0.50-$1 more a dozen.

Also, like both trab and body said, fast food grade food is poor in nutrient quality, plus, although full of fats, it's typically packed full of trans fats...not very helpfull. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some fast food, I'm a big fan of the allmighty cheat meal, but not as a constant kind of thing.

Last thing, why sodium free PB? Are you restricting sodium? The only time this is usually needed is if you are a few days out from a show, or if you have high BP. If you have high BP, so much so that you have to keep sodium out, AAS is most likely not for you anyway.
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2007, 05:42:16 PM »

No expert but I would take it that salmon, peanut butter (natural kind not Skippy or other sugar filled brands), quality beef (ground, or steak), nuts, and olive oil are all good source of fat. I would avoid french fries and burgers because they use low quality beef in most fast food establishments.

I think Fast food protine qality is veery POOR!
Spend the time to cook high qyality beef if/ when you can, if trying to bulk.
Theres also a point that gains kind of stop. Time for a rest, off ass for awhile then. Its like rebooting a computer.
Come on hard after a rest is my Fav.

I know fast food protein is poor, but I figured since I've been having trouble eating enough a few meals wouldn't kill me. I asked the guy at one of those places how many ounces of meat were on their burgers and he said 2 oz. Those burgers are made of almost all fat as well.

I read Fast Food Nation, that is why I usually order the grilled chicken and get a side of rice, and rarely order the french fries.

As far as taking a rest, I haven't really accomplished anything this cycle. Most of the gains I've achieved I already have had on just a little bit of superdrol. I don't want to keep gaining and losing the same 5 lbs over and over again.

BodyMachine is on the right path. When i say add in more fats, that does not mean eat crap...you still want quality. All the foods he mentioned are fine, I'd also add in cashews, almonds, walnuts, etc (preferably raw, not roasted.) Further, don't limit yourself to a couple of eggs per day. Eggs are one of the most valuable foods out there. Their protein rating is top among all foods containing protein, and they are packed full of healthy fats...to get the full benefit, buy omega-3 eggs instead of regular. the difference in these is that the chickens are fed things like flax seed rather then corn meal like most chickens are...and they only cost about 0.50-$1 more a dozen.

Also, like both trab and body said, fast food grade food is poor in nutrient quality, plus, although full of fats, it's typically packed full of trans fats...not very helpfull. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy some fast food, I'm a big fan of the allmighty cheat meal, but not as a constant kind of thing.

Last thing, why sodium free PB? Are you restricting sodium? The only time this is usually needed is if you are a few days out from a show, or if you have high BP. If you have high BP, so much so that you have to keep sodium out, AAS is most likely not for you anyway.

I meant I eat two whole eggs, I eat 6-18 egg whites per day. The omega - 3 eggs seem a lot more expensive, maybe I'll shop around.

The PB I eat is all natural, no added salt or sugar, just finely chopped nuts. I put salt on my eggs, plus I order rice at certain fast food restaurants which load everything with salt, so I get plenty.

I am going to up my fat, I can't believe I didn't think of that before. Probably will add some egg yolks and more nuts. Thanks.
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2007, 01:43:37 PM »

I still think my gear was underdosed. With the amount I was taking, even with a shitty diet, I should be seeing more gains.
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Arnold jr
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 02:15:31 PM »

I still think my gear was underdosed. With the amount I was taking, even with a shitty diet, I should be seeing more gains.
Maybe, but a bad diet can destroy a good cycle. Some guys are so sensitive to AAS that it doesn't matter what they eat, they grow no matter what...most guys do not fall into this category.
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 03:16:09 PM »

I still think my gear was underdosed. With the amount I was taking, even with a shitty diet, I should be seeing more gains.

Your cycle was all over the place.

Started with one thing, then ramped up, then added eq and dbol, then dropped dbol, then dropped eq...ended with just test.

you cannot cycle like that and expect good gains.

the whole point of planning a cycle ahead of time is to prevent this type of problem. you want smooth transitions, not spikes and lows.

i doubt it was underdosed, you just went from alot of AAS to just some test and your results are consistant with what would happen in this instance.

Cool

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Luv2Hurt
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 04:22:59 AM »

Maybe, but a bad diet can destroy a good cycle. Some guys are so sensitive to AAS that it doesn't matter what they eat, they grow no matter what...most guys do not fall into this category.

Your cycle was all over the place.

Started with one thing, then ramped up, then added eq and dbol, then dropped dbol, then dropped eq...ended with just test.

you cannot cycle like that and expect good gains.

the whole point of planning a cycle ahead of time is to prevent this type of problem. you want smooth transitions, not spikes and lows.

i doubt it was underdosed, you just went from alot of AAS to just some test and your results are consistant with what would happen in this instance.

Cool



Good points by these guys.  Making good progress is a complete package kind of thing.  Everything must be in place, genetics, the proper high intensity training, eating enough and the right foods, low stress lifestyle, proper supplements, sufficient rest, consistency.  Now the longer you can stay in that mode the better your results will be and the most changes you can make.  lose part of the picture and the whole thing will eventually fall apart. 

Get on a roll and keep yourself there.  Takes lots of sacrifice to excel.
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 09:53:10 AM »

Maybe, but a bad diet can destroy a good cycle. Some guys are so sensitive to AAS that it doesn't matter what they eat, they grow no matter what...most guys do not fall into this category.

Well said. I agree 100%
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 09:53:58 AM »

Your cycle was all over the place.

Started with one thing, then ramped up, then added eq and dbol, then dropped dbol, then dropped eq...ended with just test.

you cannot cycle like that and expect good gains.

the whole point of planning a cycle ahead of time is to prevent this type of problem. you want smooth transitions, not spikes and lows.

i doubt it was underdosed, you just went from alot of AAS to just some test and your results are consistant with what would happen in this instance.

Cool



Again, very well said. I also agree with this 100%.
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 06:51:46 PM »

Again, very well said. I also agree with this 100%.

Well, I disagree. My cycle wasn't "all over the place".

My cycle plan was dbol, eq and test-c. I planned on dropping the dbol, as I can't stay on it for long.
I had to ramp up the doses with the eq, because I have never taken it before and had no idea how I'd react. Also, with so much gear being underdosed, I think everyone should ramp up since you never know for sure how much you are taking.

The eq wasn't working so I have switched to deca. I messed up by not getting the deca before I ran out of eq.

My  diet is good, I have had fast food 4 times in the past 6 months. I just haven't been eating as much as I should.
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Rimbaud
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2007, 11:47:47 PM »

Well, I disagree. My cycle wasn't "all over the place".

It obviously appeared that way to others. Is it working for you? Are you seeing the results you want? That's what's really important.
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