Author Topic: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football  (Read 4465 times)

body88

  • Guest
FootballOutsiders.com, Updated 10 hours ago   STORY TOOLS:                         

 
Every football game involves a million different individual battles that can overwhelm even the most knowledgeable fan. Still, even without knowing route trees, blocking schemes or complex zone blitzes, a casual fan can tell how an offense versus defense matchup will play out based on two observations. First, can the defense stop the run without bringing a safety in for support? Second, can the defense pressure the quarterback without being forced to blitz?

The key defensive unit in these crucial battles is the defensive line. Defensive linemen range from the fleet-footed Dwight Freeney to the immense Pat Williams. Those two players are so exceptional at their one skill — rushing the passer in Freeney's case, stuffing the run for Williams — that their weaknesses in other aspects of the game are excusable. For an entire unit, however, we look for teams that can both stuff the run and get to the quarterback, with enough depth to withstand the inevitable injury or two.

There are a few stats we can use to judge defensive lines. Adjusted Line Yards measures run defense, while Adjusted Sack Rate considers sacks per pass play. We described these stats in the introduction to our offensive line rankings, and for the defense, we just turn them around. The defensive stats for 2006 are here.

We can also judge individual pass rushers on sacks, hits and hurries. Everybody knows sacks, but quarterback hits were added to the play-by-play in 2006. Hurries are an unofficial stat that we've been tracking with the Football Outsiders game charting project, our army of volunteers that compiles new stats by watching tape of every NFL game. You'll find a big article about hits and hurries, along with the numbers for every defensive lineman and linebacker in the NFL, in our new book Pro Football Prospectus 2007, available at local bookstores or from Amazon.com.


New England's Richard Seymour anchors one of the best defensive lines in football.


Here are the top 16 defensive lines in football with last year's rank in parentheses.


1. New England (7)

For years, Bill Belichick's defense has been built around linebackers. Those days are over, and by far the best unit on this defense is the defensive line. Richard Seymour is an extraordinary football player, but a season ago, he became invisible at times. Fortunately, fellow starters Ty Warren and Vince Wilfork rose to elite levels. According to Adjusted Line Yards, the Patriots were the second-best team preventing runs behind the offensive right tackle, runs which go right at Warren. Wilfork has joined the short list of outstanding nose tackles, the type of player who can completely change a game without making a single tackle. If these three weren't enough of a problem, end Jarvis Green is good enough to start for most teams but is merely a spare part in New England, and tackle Mike Wright has gone from an undrafted nobody to one of the league's most productive second-stringers. If the Patriots ever wanted to show a four-man front, either Roosevelt Colvin or Adalius Thomas could torture quarterbacks from a three-point stance on the outside.

2. Jacksonville (17)

Nobody has ever doubted the outstanding tackle duo of John Henderson and Marcus Stroud. Until last year, however, we did not know how good the Jaguars' depth along the defensive line was. Outstanding pass rusher Reggie Hayward was lost for the season in Week 1, and Stroud missed five games. The Jaguars hardly missed a beat, ranking third in Adjusted Line Yards. Their pass rush was weaker than 2005, but that was to be expected with Hayward sidelined. Bobby McCray may be the best defensive end you've never heard of, and Paul Spicer is a quality veteran who plays the run well. Back-up tackle Rob Meier fills in solidly behind Henderson and Stroud. The Jaguars would be No. 1 if we knew for sure that Hayward would return from his Achilles injury as a productive player. If he is anywhere near 100 percent, the Jaguars defense is going to cause enormous problems for the opposition, and maybe get them back in the playoffs.

3. Carolina (4)


2006 was a disappointing season for the Panthers, but the defensive line was hardly to blame. On pure talent alone, Panthers fans can easily argue that they have the top unit. Julius Peppers is on the short list of players who may be the best defensive player in football. Mike Rucker and Kris Jenkins are both exceptional players. Ma'ake Kemoeatu, Damione Lewis and Jordan Carstens give them impressive depth at defensive tackle. The team does have some question marks, primarily due to health concerns. Jenkins' biggest weakness is an inability to stay on the field, as he was injured in 2004 and 2005. He was healthy all season a year ago but lacked some of the explosiveness of his pre-injury days. Rucker blew out his ACL in December and may not be at his best this season. Charles Johnson, a third-round pick from Georgia, is an outstanding prospect at defensive end. The final question mark is Carstens, who is suffering from kidney disease and waiting for medical clearance.

4. San Diego (14)


Shawne Merriman gets all the headlines thanks to his huge sack totals, but the defensive line is essential for Merriman to ply his trade. Defensive tackle Jamal Williams was not as dominant in 2006 as he was in 2005, but he remains among the best at his position. The key to this unit has been the development of the defensive ends. Luis Castillo plays a fundamentally sound defensive end and is emerging as a star. Igor Olshansky struggles to get pressure on the quarterback but is stout against the run. Off the bench, Jacques Cesaire provides some of the pass rush that they lack with Olshansky.

5. Miami


Poll

Like the Panthers, the Dolphins had a very disappointing 2006, and again, the defensive line was not the problem. Jason Taylor was a very deserving Defensive Player of the Year, wreaking havoc on opposing quarterbacks and playing stout run defense. The middle of the defensive line is a little old with Vonnie Holliday and Keith Traylor. Holliday, though, clearly has something left, and gets good penetration from the interior. The key to the unit will be a couple of untested players. Second-year defensive end Matt Roth takes over as the starter and should be more disruptive than the departed Kevin Carter. Support in the middle of the line comes from Paul Soliai, a rookie from Utah who replaces the ineffective Jeff Zgonina.

6. Minnesota (18)


The 2006 Vikings run defense was the best in the NFL since the 2000 Ravens, thanks in large part to an outstanding defensive line. Pat and Kevin Williams (no relation) are absolutely impossible to handle in the middle of the line. A motivated Pat Williams is arguably the best run defender in football. The only reason the Vikings do not rank first is that the defensive line struggled mightily to get to the quarterback. Starting defensive end Kenechi Udeze plays the run well but recorded zero sacks on the season. The Vikings overall were second to last in Adjusted Sack Rate. The good news — and the reason they are still a top 10 unit — is that according to our game-charting project, they ranked eighth in hurries per charted pass play. Look for some of those hurries to turn into sacks this season.

7. Baltimore (11)

Based on their starting three, the Ravens would rank higher, but depth is a bit of a question. Defensive tackle Haloti Ngata impressed as a rookie, but the more significant addition a year ago was Trevor Pryce. The veteran arrived from Denver and provided exceptional pass rushing skills with 13 sacks. Kelly Gregg is a stout run defender but is a non-factor at times in the passing game. Behind these players, Justin Bannan and Dwan Edwards are unproven. Pryce turns 32 before the season starts, and an injury to him could create problems.

8. Philadelphia (6)


The Eagles' big names are at defensive end with Jevon Kearse and Darren Howard, but neither one is the pass-rushing threat he used to be. Kearse has not had 10 sacks since 2001, and Howard only had five a season ago. To his credit, Howard is at least a solid defender against the run. The strength of the team is an impressive defensive line rotation. Mike Patterson and Darwin Walker were effective last season, with Patterson holding his own against the run and Walker providing pass rush. Walker was shipped to Buffalo, and Philadelphia hopes for improved play from Broderick Bunkley. Last year's first-round pick, Bunkley never entered the rotation but has incredible physical skills. The signings of Ian Scott and Montae Reagor provide depth in the middle unmatched by any other team. The defensive end position is also deep with the solid Trent Cole and rookie Victor Abiamiri.

9. Chicago (1)


 
Chicago's D-line struggled after Tommie Harris got injured last year. (Jonathan Daniel / Getty Images)

A year ago, the Bears appeared to have a deep and talented defensive line. Then Tommie Harris got injured, and it became obvious that the Bears had a bunch of solid but unspectacular linemen. The only difference-maker besides the outstanding Harris was rookie Mark Anderson. Anderson should start this season at defensive end, and it will be interesting to see if he can hold up against the run. The Bears have completely reworked their defensive tackle rotation. They elected to let Ian Scott or Alfonso Boone leave in free agency. After another run-in with the law, they said No tanks to Tank Johnson. To fill the hole, they acquired Anthony Adams from San Francisco, and he should be a good fit for the Bears' Tampa-2 system. He will be joined by Dusty Dvoracek, a third-round pick in 2006 who missed last season with a foot injury. If Harris is 100 percent, look for glowing stories about Dvoracek and the rest of the revamped D-line. If Harris struggles with his health, the Bears defense will look very mediocre overall.

10. Pittsburgh (3)


A year ago, the Steelers' defensive line remained extremely healthy and played at a high level, but they may not reach those heights this year. Casey Hampton joins Jamal Williams and Vince Wilfork in the triumvirate of outstanding 3-4 nose tackles, but he doesn't add as much as Williams and Wilfork when it comes to the pass rush. Brett Keisel was a nice surprise as a replacement for Kimo von Oelhoffen, but he is a 29-year-old journeyman who probably enjoyed his best season. Aaron Smith is an excellent 3-4 defensive end who holds his ground well against the run. As for depth, only Chris Hoke at defensive tackle is a proven commodity.

11. New York Giants (5)

The top 10 is a little defensive-tackle heavy, as the Giants are our first team truly dominated by the defensive ends. Michael Strahan remains a great player but has now missed half a season twice in the last three years. On the other end, Osi Umenyiora also battled injuries but is younger and more likely to return to his Pro Bowl form. The middle is a dicier proposition with Barry Cofield and Fred Robbins best described as mediocre. Cofield is young and has upside potential, while Robbins is adequate. Nobody knows what to make of William Joseph, who, if he played quarterback, would have long since been cut and written off as an enormous draft bust.

12. Seattle (2)


Sometimes, despite voluminous film study and all the advanced statistics in the world, you do not know how good a player is until he goes out with an injury. We knew Marcus Tubbs was an asset in a solid defensive tackle rotation, but after he was lost for the season with a knee injury, the team's run defense collapsed. Tubbs had microfracture surgery in the off-season, and while reports on his recovery are encouraging, the risk drops the Seahawks into the teens. The good news is that Patrick Kerney is a strong upgrade at defensive end. Nobody on last year's defensive line had even five sacks, and a healthy Kerney should provide more pass rush. The strength remains up the middle with Tubbs, Rocky Bernard, Chuck Darby, Craig Terrill and rookie third-rounder Brandon Mebane.


Poll

13. Atlanta (28)


The Falcons' defensive line gave a complete performance a season ago, ranking 12th in Adjusted Line Yards and eighth in Adjusted Sack Rate. However, an off-season quadriceps injury to Rod Coleman will certainly hurt their interior push. Coleman has only missed three games over the past four seasons but will miss at least that many after a boating accident. The departure of Patrick Kerney is a short-term downgrade, but first-round pick Jamal Anderson will eventually be a better player. John Abraham hopes for a healthier season in his second year with Atlanta as Chauncey Davis is stretched as a starter. The more important addition last season was Grady Jackson at defensive tackle, where he can single-handedly turn a rushing defense around. At age 34 and with a certain amount of, let's say ... girth, Jackson may not age gracefully.

14. New Orleans (20
)

The Saints' defense was below average, particularly for a conference championship team, but the defensive line was certainly the team's strongest unit. Will Smith continued to develop as an outstanding defensive end and picked up 10.5 sacks. The center of the line, Hollis Thomas and Brian Young, is solid as these are good players who attack up the field well. Still, a physical offensive line can overpower them. Left defensive end Charles Grant received an enormous contract to stay in New Orleans, which showed his value to the unit. Tackle depth should be improved with the importation of Kendrick Clancy from the Cardinals.

15. Green Bay (25)

This ranking may be high for the Packers, but if they are going to make a surprise playoff run, the defensive line will be this good. Aaron Kampman is one of the league's most complete defensive ends, pressuring the quarterback while still playing the run adequately. On the other end, Cullen Jenkins has assumed the starting role, and this unheralded player is certainly someone to watch this year. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila returns to the role of pass-rush specialist, where he should again be an impact player. The key for the unit is the health of Justin Harrell, the first-round pick out of Tennessee. Harrell was considered a reach in the draft but has excellent physical skills. One weakness is that Kampman and Ryan Pickett on the left side of the line get pushed back on running plays more than the Packers would like. Both players amass numerous tackles, but too often they are several yards downfield.

16. Indianapolis (16)

During the regular season, the Colts' D-line played like one of the worst units in the league. In the playoffs, it played like a top 10 unit. As a result, we compromise with a ranking of 16th. Run defense is the primary problem. The Colts had problems taking down quarterbacks last year — they only had 25 sacks — but they didn't have any trouble getting close to the quarterback, ranking in the top 10 in both quarterback hits and hurries. Dwight Freeney is now the highest-paid defender in the league, even after recording only 5.5 sacks last season. Perhaps the Colts' front office knows what Football Outsiders knows, that Freeney led the NFL in quarterback hurries last season despite the low sack total. Freeney can still rush the passer, but opposing quarterbacks never hold the ball for more than a couple seconds against the Colts' zone defense. Opposing pint-sized defensive end Robert Mathis played every down for the first time and held up surprisingly well against the run. Raheem Brock struggled against the run after being shifted inside to tackle. Booger McFarland is past his prime, but the Colts would not have won the Super Bowl had they not traded for him.                                                                                                                                                                                                       


UPINTHEMGUTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5633
  • I can spot crazy pussy....
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 10:52:37 AM »
Uh oh...time for another nut-hugging speech from Body88 over his beloved Pats! ;D

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 11:04:35 AM »
Uh oh...time for another nut-hugging speech from Body88 over his beloved Pats! ;D

No speech today!

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19464
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 03:50:39 AM »
It's "Patriots". Not "Pats".

As empty as paradise

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 04:27:12 AM »
It's "Patriots". Not "Pats".



Everyone calls the patriots the "pats". Kind of like when people call the Red Sox the Sox. The patriots sounds formal. I know that sounds weird, "to formal". When all the NE fans are wasted it is easier to scream " Pass me ah beeeaaah andddd turn on thaaa patsssss!!!!!!!

UPINTHEMGUTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5633
  • I can spot crazy pussy....
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 06:35:50 AM »
It's "Patriots". Not "Pats".



Go ahead and keep talking. Act like you know what you're talking about.

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 06:59:27 AM »
Go ahead and keep talking. Act like you know what you're talking about.


Calling the pats the patriots is kind of like when a friend calls you by your full name when you go by a nickname. You know what I mean?

Always Sore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8547
  • Catch it..Like herpes!
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 07:31:47 AM »
Number 8....this is a outrage... ;D

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 04:45:29 PM »
It's "Patriots". Not "Pats".



You're wrong. I prefer "overrated douche bags". Has the same ring if you ask me!!!!!  :D


Personally, I'd put that Pats 4th but winning a Super Bowl 3 years ago works wonders for biased rankings!

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 05:43:51 AM »
You're wrong. I prefer "overrated douche bags". Has the same ring if you ask me!!!!!  :D


Personally, I'd put that Pats 4th but winning a Super Bowl 3 years ago works wonders for biased rankings!

I do not agree. The patriots allowed the fewest passing tds in the nfl last year. This was accomplished with a secondary riddled with injuries most of the season. Harrison was out, Gay was hurt, Hobbs was playing with a broken wrist etc etc. Samuel had a great year, but he was not shutting teams down. The reason they allowed the fewest passing tds was because of the outstanding defensive line. The pats run a 3/4.

Seymour is a perennial pro bowler, Warren had pro bowl numbers last year and Wilfork is right there. Warren and Wilfork are 26, Seymour is 28. They are a very talented unit.

I don't understand why you hate the patriots so much. They go all the way to the AFC championship game last year with no name wr's and they all the sudden are no good just because they did not win a fourth superbowl? Whatever floats your boat.




Always Sore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8547
  • Catch it..Like herpes!
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 06:11:01 AM »
I do not agree. The patriots allowed the fewest passing tds in the nfl last year. This was accomplished with a secondary riddled with injuries most of the season. Harrison was out, Gay was hurt, Hobbs was playing with a broken wrist etc etc. Samuel had a great year, but he was not shutting teams down. The reason they allowed the fewest passing tds was because of the outstanding defensive line. The pats run a 3/4.

Seymour is a perennial pro bowler, Warren had pro bowl numbers last year and Wilfork is right there. Warren and Wilfork are 26, Seymour is 28. They are a very talented unit.

I don't understand why you hate the patriots so much. They go all the way to the AFC championship game last year with no name wr's and they all the sudden are no good just because they did not win a fourth superbowl? Whatever floats your boat.



I hate the Patriots simply because they beat my Eagles in the SB.. ;D other then that they are the team of the decade so far.

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 06:29:59 AM »
I have no problem with that. I am talking about when people let there disdain for a team cloud there analysis of a game or players. Not to say people do not have a right to there opinion. But some of the criticism you hear about the pats is laughable. Its almost like they won those three sb's in 4 years so now going to the afc championship game and being one first down away from another sb appearance is no good and they are done. They had a better season then 99 percent of the nfl last year, I would not call that done. I am not talking about any posters on here, just melting down in general haha.

UPINTHEMGUTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5633
  • I can spot crazy pussy....
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 07:35:25 AM »
I do not agree. The patriots allowed the fewest passing tds in the nfl last year. This was accomplished with a secondary riddled with injuries most of the season. Harrison was out, Gay was hurt, Hobbs was playing with a broken wrist etc etc. Samuel had a great year, but he was not shutting teams down. The reason they allowed the fewest passing tds was because of the outstanding defensive line. The pats run a 3/4.

Seymour is a perennial pro bowler, Warren had pro bowl numbers last year and Wilfork is right there. Warren and Wilfork are 26, Seymour is 28. They are a very talented unit.

I don't understand why you hate the patriots so much. They go all the way to the AFC championship game last year with no name wr's and they all the sudden are no good just because they did not win a fourth superbowl? Whatever floats your boat.





Body88,

Berzerkfury has some bent up negativity that I think he needs to address. He has been hell bent on calling out "The ultimate fighter poseurs" and people who wear Tapout clothing as a fashion statement. Apparently, he appears to be the offcial GETBIG spokeman on MMA fighting and hates anyone else's point of view on pretty much everything else, including your beloved Pats. Anyone know who his NFL team is?

I like Berzerk, though. He's a funny cat.

Always Sore

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8547
  • Catch it..Like herpes!
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2007, 07:53:51 AM »
I have no problem with that. I am talking about when people let there disdain for a team cloud there analysis of a game or players. Not to say people do not have a right to there opinion. But some of the criticism you hear about the pats is laughable. Its almost like they won those three sb's in 4 years so now going to the afc championship game and being one first down away from another sb appearance is no good and they are done. They had a better season then 99 percent of the nfl last year, I would not call that done. I am not talking about any posters on here, just melting down in general haha.

Damm that being said I must confess I have a irrational hatered of the redskins...To the point I tell people I have two favorite teams the Eagles and whoever is playing the redskins... ;D

CalvinH

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22014
  • Spastic Tarted Cvunt
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 07:58:54 AM »
You're wrong. I prefer "overrated douche bags". Has the same ring if you ask me!!!!!  :D


Personally, I'd put that Pats 4th but winning a Super Bowl 3 years ago works wonders for biased rankings!


Your a CT boy who do you like,the Giants?

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 08:38:19 AM »
Body88,

Berzerkfury has some bent up negativity that I think he needs to address. He has been hell bent on calling out "The ultimate fighter poseurs" and people who wear Tapout clothing as a fashion statement. Apparently, he appears to be the offcial GETBIG spokeman on MMA fighting and hates anyone else's point of view on pretty much everything else, including your beloved Pats. Anyone know who his NFL team is?

I like Berzerk, though. He's a funny cat.

hahahaha!!!!!!!!!! Getbig spokesperson, has a nice ring. I just don't like the TUF fanboys. If you ever go to the big MMA forums, these are the same clowns that walk around saying Tim Sylvia could dominate Fedor and stuff like all Pride fighters are pussys, etc. I'm just having fun with it. Plus, Tapout is just really, really gay clothing. Go to any school and you'll be hard pressed to find people wearing it, outside of the fight shorts.

Chargers should've beaten the Pats but I'm not going to go into that again.  :D


My team is the Giants, Kings of New York!!!!! I'm not at liberty to discuss our season though because it's on track to be a disaster. My heart for Strahan to stop being a twat and come back.  :'(


headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2007, 07:58:50 PM »
Biased rankings..yeah do u even watch football.  ::) I think the Jags might have a better line but the PATS are my team so good for them. Have fun with Manning and his 8 million INT's. I think the Manning experiment will be over this fall. As for the SD game. Giimme a break, we won dude. Just like the AFC championship game. Two key drops and a few bad calls and we lost. Not to mention the 21-3 lead we blew. The Pats lost, easy to admit, and I hate the Dolts. It will be a fun season with you.


GO PATSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSS
L

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2007, 08:51:36 PM »
Biased rankings..yeah do u even watch football.  ::) I think the Jags might have a better line but the PATS are my team so good for them. Have fun with Manning and his 8 million INT's. I think the Manning experiment will be over this fall. As for the SD game. Giimme a break, we won dude. Just like the AFC championship game. Two key drops and a few bad calls and we lost. Not to mention the 21-3 lead we blew. The Pats lost, easy to admit, and I hate the Dolts. It will be a fun season with you.


GO PATSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSS

Manning lost Tarik Glenn to retierment. Tarik proteted Mannings blind sidesince he came into the leauge. Theyare going to have a backup or the rookie Ugoh in there. Tarik was one of if not the best in the game at his position. It is being reported the colts might have just lost MCfarland for the season with a knee injury. Sanders is already hurt also.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2007, 09:02:17 PM »
Hey Body.....Sanders was hurt all last year..not sure his deal. Played fine against us.  That would be good news because I guess the guy they got from the Eagles two years ago...is MIA. As long as Moss's hammy holds up. Wow!!! they made a huge deal about that in the NE papers this week. Any word on Stallworth
L

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2007, 10:07:16 PM »
Biased rankings..yeah do u even watch football.  ::) I think the Jags might have a better line but the PATS are my team so good for them. Have fun with Manning and his 8 million INT's. I think the Manning experiment will be over this fall. As for the SD game. Giimme a break, we won dude. Just like the AFC championship game. Two key drops and a few bad calls and we lost. Not to mention the 21-3 lead we blew. The Pats lost, easy to admit, and I hate the Dolts. It will be a fun season with you.


GO PATSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSS

hahaha, the hypocrisy in your post is hilarious. Typical of a Pats fan that doesn't know anything about the team outside of the fact that they win a lot. You claim they beat SD despite the fact that they dominated the Pats on both sides of the ball for most of that game. That's fine. Then you turn around and tell me the Pats won the Colts game despite the fact they lost, and after falling apart? Yup, you're an idiot. Here's a little newsflash, they had one of the biggest meltdown/chokejobs in league title game history. Go on again, the Chargers and Colts game were different how?

Anyways, the Colts window will be open for a few more years. Maybe not this year after all the losses, which is fine. They'll rebuild. Not like the Pats window isn't closing themselves with the exorbitant amount of aging players littering that roster.  :D

Typical Mass. argument. "The Jags line is better but the Pats are my team so they're automatically better." Honestly, do you watch football or are you one of the typical New Englander fans who didn't watch any games until they won 2 SB's?  :o

UPINTHEMGUTS

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5633
  • I can spot crazy pussy....
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2007, 10:39:30 AM »
Counting down the seconds until Body88 responds.........


3...2....1.......

body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2007, 10:54:29 AM »
hahaha, the hypocrisy in your post is hilarious. Typical of a Pats fan that doesn't know anything about the team outside of the fact that they win a lot. You claim they beat SD despite the fact that they dominated the Pats on both sides of the ball for most of that game. That's fine. Then you turn around and tell me the Pats won the Colts game despite the fact they lost, and after falling apart? Yup, you're an idiot. Here's a little newsflash, they had one of the biggest meltdown/chokejobs in league title game history. Go on again, the Chargers and Colts game were different how?

Anyways, the Colts window will be open for a few more years. Maybe not this year after all the losses, which is fine. They'll rebuild. Not like the Pats window isn't closing themselves with the exorbitant amount of aging players littering that roster.  :D

Typical Mass. argument. "The Jags line is better but the Pats are my team so they're automatically better." Honestly, do you watch football or are you one of the typical New Englander fans who didn't watch any games until they won 2 SB's?  :o


While I respect your opinion about the jags line I disagree. I think the pats have the better line. Not just because I am a pats fan either. For a team to allow the fewest passing tds in the leauge with a secondary riddled with injury they have to have a outstanding line. The line is very young, and extremley talented. A succesful 3/4 depends on it.

That aside where are the pats aging all over? Aside from the lb position. If you had been following the pats this year at all you would know that second year lb Peire Woods has been outstanding in camp and primed to step in to contribute this year. lau is showing a ton of promise also. Taking tons of reps in camp. They also have Alexander waiting in the wings. Just because the pats did not take a lb this year does not mean they were not grooming any. Belichick has never taken a lb high and prefers vets in the role due to how complicated it is in his system. Looks at the lb's he has had over the years. They have been grooming two lb's and they look ready to contribute. The national media or non pats fans would have no way to know this. The pats defensive line is extremley young. The offensive line is young. Meriweather is Rodneys eventual replacement. He is ready to start. The secondary is pretty young. Samuel, Hobbs, Meriweather, Sanders and Wilson are not old. Brady is only 30. The recieving corps is young (aside from Moss).The te's are young (Watson, Thomas) Thomas is only in his second year. Watson is only 26. Maroney is only is his second year at rb. Gostkowski is young. The pats have youth in there depth also. The pats have a great mix of youth and vets imo. The only "older" unit is the lbs.  The pats have two first round picks,two third round picks, a slew of comp pics, plus there regular picks next year. They also will have about 29 million in cap space again. I think they might have the tools to stay on the top of the pile for a few more years.

The colts have no cap space. They have players like Dallas Clark and Bob Sanders up for contracts next year. They just made Freeney the highest paid defensive player ever. They just lost the best in the biz who was protecting Mannings blindside since day one in Glen. They lost most there secondary and there second rb. Simon is gone with 14 million bucks of there cash, Mcfarlandmay be out for the year and Sanders is already hurt. Harrison is a year older and they have no first round pick next year. Plus a tougher schedule and a sb hangover. They have the offense to repeat, but that run d was the fifth worst in NFL history last year. With the losses of Booger, Sanders, Glenn (on top of there other losses) they could be in for a rough ride.


The colts have the offense to get to the sb, depends if the added sacks and lack of d will hold them back . They where also extremley lucky injury wise last year.

Fury

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 21026
  • All aboard the USS Leverage
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2007, 02:15:47 PM »
In all honesty, why would I follow the Pats at all? They aren't my team. I also don't know much about the Colts outside of the losses they've taken this off-season. Good post but I wasn't attacking you. I was attacking the typical hypocritical fanboy that bases his entire argument on the fact that, "They're my favorite team so they're the best despite the fact they can go 0-256 over the next 10 years". It's a retarded argument and proves that the person saying it is one of those guys who only follows the team when they're winning consistently. I don't even like the Colts. I just like the fact they're one of the few teams who legitimately have a chance to beat the Pats every time they play. I also think there are 4-5 teams in the AFC now that have that possibility as well.


body88

  • Guest
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2007, 09:02:05 PM »
In all honesty, why would I follow the Pats at all? They aren't my team. I also don't know much about the Colts outside of the losses they've taken this off-season. Good post but I wasn't attacking you. I was attacking the typical hypocritical fanboy that bases his entire argument on the fact that, "They're my favorite team so they're the best despite the fact they can go 0-256 over the next 10 years". It's a retarded argument and proves that the person saying it is one of those guys who only follows the team when they're winning consistently. I don't even like the Colts. I just like the fact they're one of the few teams who legitimately have a chance to beat the Pats every time they play. I also think there are 4-5 teams in the AFC now that have that possibility as well.




I thought you might follow them somewhat.Some of the statements you make about the pats are way off base. The aging all over thing being one of them. I have no problem with people who do not like the pats.


The colts just lost McFarland for the season. He was a key cog in a defense that ranked the fifth worst in NFL history last year. I know the d stepped it up in the playoffs, but I am going to have to revert to what they did over 16 games during the reg season. The loss of McFarland is HUGE for the colts defense. Sanders is a great player but injury prone. He missed a ton of time during the regular season. He is already pupped. Freeney cant do it all on his own. Not to mention he is useless against the run. Simon just walked off with 14 million bucks of the colts money. He could of at least helped improve the defense. The colts lost several members of there secondary this year. This is not a huge deal as they have several high draft picks they have been grooming to step in. Not to mention they run a cover 2. But what if one of the new starters get hurt? What if they are slow to pick up the system? Then they are forced to use depth guys that will not be as effective since the first line of starters is gone and there high draft pick replacements are going to start. The lose of Tarik Glenn was a big one to. You cannot find perennial pro bowl left tackles very easily. He has been protecting Manning's ass since he came into the league. You would be hard pressed to find a better man for the job. Glenn could take on the best defensive players in the NFL and be very effective. The colts line only allowed one sack every 19 drop backs I believe. That is serious protection. The colts can toss first year player Tony Ugoh in there sure. But I don't care how good he is, Ugoh is a rookie and not in the same stratosphere as Glenn. Friends I have that went to a colts camp practice told me Ugoh is no where ready (dont shoot the messenger) They said Freeney would have layed hits on Manning that would be considered brutal if he was a rival lb. Wide open shot type hits. Manning might be taking some extra shots this year from some of those AFC linebackers he has to face. He could be hurried more often this year. Happy feet could be a dancin if he all the sudden does not have the time he used to to make plays. In all honesty manning is so good he will offset the lose of Glenn. But it will be a factor for the colts this year. Manning is not used to getting hit, things could get ugly this season is a rookie is protecting his ass. What happens if Addi goes down? Who is his backup? Is Addi legit , or the product of a passing offense that does not allow defenders to stack the box?

The colts picked up a big time weapon in Gonzales. With the offense they have they will always be in the hunt for a sb. I think they made a fantastic move grabbing him up. He will fill that slot role Stokley played for them. Anthony will be a better player and be more durable. watching him play I feel he is the perfect player for the colts offense in the slot. In the colts case the best defense is an offense. The colts will have the best offense in the NFL. No defensive pick would have improved them off the bat. Anthony will potentially help them to outscore opponents week in and week out. The pats will right up there offensively also. Last year the pats had no deep threats. Caldwell was just not fast enough. The pats have alot of offensive weapons this year. Thomas and Watson at TE. Moss, Gaffney, Stallworth , Jackson, Welker and Caldwell at wr. Maroney,Morris and Faulk at rb. This year teams will not be able to stack the box, which should allow Maroney to run wild. If they do stack the box they will pay deep. Stallworth and Moss are legit deep threats. Not to mention Gaffney and Welker buzzing around. Welker is like a little fly. You should see him fly out from behind the line. Like a little hornet ripping around the slot.


The top five AFC teams imo are NE, Chargers, Broncos, Colts, Ravens.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Football outsiders ranks the top defensive lines in football
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2007, 09:29:33 AM »
Since Body already hit u with the facts I'll just mention my bit. We lost the Colts game dumbass...i never said we didn't, same as we beat the Bolts.  They picked it off and then fumbled it. We goty it back and TB throw a TD and it was game over. Having dominated us all game it was a pretty close score wouldn't u say. Also aren't u in college or something. How much football have u watched. My team stunk for about a million years so now I'm gonna enjoy my time. As far as the Jags, I think they might be as talented as what we have in NE. But the NE line is younger so, I guess u have to go with them. Besides nobody said that the Giants line was any good so don't worry about it.
L