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Author Topic: BARRY BONDS IS  (Read 10853 times)
SAMSON123
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« on: July 27, 2007, 11:55:41 PM »

two HOMERUNS away from breaking Hank Aarons record... I  hope tomorrows game is the winner for him
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007, 12:00:21 AM »

two HOMERUNS away from breaking Hank Aarons record... I  hope tomorrows game is the winner for him

his feet grew 4 sizes from eating his wheaties.
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2007, 08:15:03 AM »

he is the greatest baseball player I've ever seen
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2007, 09:16:38 AM »

two HOMERUNS away from breaking Hank Aarons record... I  hope tomorrows game is the winner for him

I agree, can't wait!!
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2007, 09:21:03 AM »

he is the greatest baseball player I've ever seen

  You should get out more often. Lay off the Xanax too while you're at it.
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2007, 09:24:41 AM »

  You should get out more often. Lay off the Xanax too while you're at it.

bitter much?
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2007, 09:57:25 AM »

*
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2007, 09:58:15 AM »

baseball players play 162 games over like 200 days..plus post season, pre season and year round training

it would make sense to get on a program/cycle of minimal test and other recovery agents to be at peak performance all the time.

I don't see the problem with this.


part of the problem with baseball is that you are stationary for a long time and are then expected to make an explosive reactionary movement....this could lead to freak injuries..you need something to assist in recovery


but then again this is the society that things creatine and whey protein are steroids and that it is ok to be 50lbs over weight.

we are so fucked

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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2007, 10:06:20 AM »

an arrogent, roided jigger.  Grin

have you ever met him? but yet you seem to know his personality.

Is michael Jordan or Larry Bird arrogant? who knows...don't believe the story the media spins for you

did you know that his father was treated like crap by the media and team owners? growing up this affected his relationship with the media..(it would have affected yours also)

why did you have to call him a jigger? why take it to that level?

McQuire, Sosa, Canseco and other are steroid users also..race plays very little here..you are better than that..
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 10:14:12 AM »

*

Put that by his name and put just put next to about 3/4 of the league including, ARod, Clemens, Puljols, Sosa and anyone else who are putting up huge numbers. Shit, ARod is comming up on 500 HR's at the age of what? 32? and nothing's being said about that. Clemens is older than me (45) and he's still pitching 6-8 innings in the low to mis 90's.......not much has been said about that. So to single Bonds out simply because he's not media friendly is bullshit.
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2007, 10:24:48 AM »

one of the best ball player ever to play.   people fail to realize or simply choose to forget that he won 10-12 golden glove awards and routinely hit 30-40 homers a year before the steroid scandal hit the MLB. he's not like maguire or sosa. they came out of no where to put up big #'s
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2007, 10:26:41 AM »

Put that by his name and put just put next to about 3/4 of the league including, ARod, Clemens, Puljols, Sosa and anyone else who are putting up huge numbers. Shit, ARod is comming up on 500 HR's at the age of what? 32? and nothing's being said about that. Clemens is older than me (45) and he's still pitching 6-8 innings in the low to mis 90's.......not much has been said about that. So to single Bonds out simply because he's not media friendly is bullshit.

I agree..

let me ask you something: roger was born 1962, so that makes him 45

if we go back 10-12 years or so..that would place him around 33-35..at the point  most pitchers are just about done for and are usually wrapping up their careers. At that time he had 9, 10 and 10 wins. Boston then let him go because they thought that it was over

then a miracle happened at age 35+ he won 20+ or more several times. The man was just dominant at 35 to 41 winning several cy young awards. He found the fountain of youth and strength...interesting

yet you say that don't susect anything

men lie, women lie, numbers don't

the first 2 number columns are win and loses


1984     Boston Red Sox 9 4 4.32 21 20 5 1 0 --- 133.1 146 67 64 13 2 29 126
1985     Boston Red Sox 7 5 3.29 15 15 3 1 0 --- 98.1 83 38 36 5 3 37 74
1986     Boston Red Sox 24 4 2.48 33 33 10 1 0 --- 254.0 179 77 70 21 4 67 238
1987     Boston Red Sox 20 9 2.97 36 36 18 7 0 --- 281.2 248 100 93 19 9 83 256
1988     Boston Red Sox 18 12 2.93 35 35 14 8 0 --- 264.0 217 93 86 17 6 62 291
1989     Boston Red Sox 17 11 3.13 35 35 8 3 0 --- 253.1 215 101 88 20 8 93 230
1990     Boston Red Sox 21 6 1.93 31 31 7 4 0 --- 228.1 193 59 49 7 7 54 209
1991     Boston Red Sox 18 10 2.62 35 35 13 4 0 --- 271.1 219 93 79 15 5 65 241
1992     Boston Red Sox 18 11 2.41 32 32 11 5 0 --- 246.2 203 80 66 11 9 62 208
1993     Boston Red Sox 11 14 4.46 29 29 2 1 0 --- 191.2 175 99 95 17 11 67 160
1994     Boston Red Sox 9 7 2.85 24 24 3 1 0 --- 170.2 124 62 54 15 4 71 168
1995     Boston Red Sox 10 5 4.18 23 23 0 0 0 --- 140.0 141 70 65 15 14 60 132
1996     Boston Red Sox 10 13 3.63 34 34 6 2 0 --- 242.2 216 106 98 19 4 106 257
1997     Toronto Blue Jays 21 7 2.05 34 34 9 3 0 --- 264.0 204 65 60 9 12 68 292
1998     Toronto Blue Jays 20 6 2.65 33 33 5 3 0 --- 234.2 169 78 69 11 7 88 271
1999     New York Yankees 14 10 4.60 30 30 1 1 0 0 187.2 185 101 96 20 9 90 163
2000     New York Yankees 13 8 3.70 32 32 1 0 0 0 204.1 184 96 84 26 10 84 188
2001     New York Yankees 20 3 3.51 33 33 0 0 0 0 220.1 205 94 86 19 5 72 213
2002     New York Yankees 13 6 4.35 29 29 0 0 0 0 180.0 172 94 87 18 7 63 192
2003     New York Yankees 17 9 3.91 33 33 1 1 0 0 211.2 199 99 92 24 5 58 190
2004     Houston Astros 18 4 2.98 33 33 0 0 0 0 214.1 169 76 71 15 6 79 218
2005     Houston Astros 13 8 1.87 32 32 1 0 0 0 211.1 151 51 44 11 3 62 185
2006     Houston Astros 7 6 2.30 19 19 0 0 0 0 113.1 89 34 29 7 4 29 102
2007     New York Yankees 3 4 3.72 10 9 0 0 0 0 58.0 52 24 24 5 1 15 37

original link
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=112388&statType=2
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 10:38:18 AM »

he's not like maguire or sosa. they came out of no where to put up big #'s

McGwire (spell his name right) didn't "come out of nowhere."  He was Rookie of the Year for the American League in 1987 & was in the World Series three times with the Oakland A's, & was a team star as one of the "Bash Brothers" with Jose Canseco.  Before he went to St. Louis, his at-bats stopped things dead in the ballparks he was in.
I saw him hit a home run in 2000, & it was one of the most incredible sights I've ever seen. 
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2007, 10:42:34 AM »

McGwire (spell his name right) didn't "come out of nowhere."  He was Rookie of the Year for the American League in 1987 & was in the World Series three times with the Oakland A's, & was a team star as one of the "Bash Brothers" with Jose Canseco.  Before he went to St. Louis, his at-bats stopped things dead in the ballparks he was in.
I saw him hit a home run in 2000, & it was one of the most incredible sights I've ever seen. 

what you must realize is that americans are notgood with history..and we love revisionist history

as you pointed out mcgwire was a star with power from day one

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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2007, 10:46:24 AM »



   Bonds is a skinny 20 HR and 30 SB player without all the juice and GH, the guy is pathetic.
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2007, 10:49:16 AM »

Look at Gary Sheffield, did he say the steriod gel patch on his arm was like Flaxseed oil?Huh  He didn't know???
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2007, 10:53:22 AM »

Traps, how is he pathetic ? look at his # and awards before the steroid era in baseball. If he juiced he was wrong !!  I agree !!!! But you can't deny his greatness before the steroid era.
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2007, 10:53:57 AM »

his feet grew 4 sizes from eating his wheaties.

Anyone who thinks he is not on juice is a moron.

I love steroids as much as the next guy, but why play in a venue where they are prohibited, take them on the sly, and then pretend like you’ve accomplished something?   Angry

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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2007, 10:55:14 AM »

Barry Bonds is Patrick Arnolds creation....put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2007, 11:06:42 AM »

Anyone who thinks he is not on juice is a moron.

I love steroids as much as the next guy, but why play in a venue where they are prohibited, take them on the sly, and then pretend like you’ve accomplished something?   Angry



point is, they weren't prohibited at the time

that is the real scandal- selig just turned a blind eye to it all at the time
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2007, 11:22:54 AM »

The transformation of Barry Bonds

Wednesday, March 8, 2006
Back to Article

In this excerpt from GAME OF SHADOWS by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance
 Williams, the statistical transformation of Barry Bonds after he
 began steroid use is detailed.
  * * *

The transformation that Barry Bonds achieved through the use of
performance-enhancing drugs is reflected in his batting statistics.
Bonds began using steroids before the start of the 1999 season, when
he was 34 years old. His numbers, as compiled by baseball-reference.com,
show that his performance improved dramatically at a time when otherwise
he might have been approaching the end of his career.

Of the five best offensive seasons in Bonds' career, four came after
he was 35 years old - and after 1999, the year he began using steroids.
The historic 2001 season, when he was 36 years old (his age as of
Opening Day), was the best of all - .328 batting average, 73 home runs,
an on-base percentage of .515. But 2002, when he was 37 (.370, 46 HR)
and 2004, when he was 39, (.362, 45 HR) also were excellent seasons for
Bonds, and 2003, when he was 38, was not far off the mark.

In fact, of Bonds' five best seasons, only one came in what is usually
considered a baseball player's prime. That was 1993, before steroids,
when Bonds was 28 years old and playing his first season for the Giants.

Year  Age   AB    R   H   2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB  SO    BA   OBP   SLG
2001   36  476  129  156  32   2  73  137  177  93  .328  .515  .863
2002   37  403  117  149  31   2  46  110  198  47  .370  .582  .799
2004   39  373  129  135  27   3  45  101  232  41  .362  .609  .812
1993   28  539  129  181  38   4  46  123  126  79  .336  .458  .677 
2003   38  390  111  133  22   1  45   90  148  58  .341  .529  .749         

Bonds' home run production also increased after he began using steroids.
In his 19-year career (through 2004), Bonds hit 45 or more home runs in
six seasons. Five of those seasons were after 1999 - after age 35, and
after he had begun using performance-enhancing drugs.

Year       Age        HR
2001        36        73
2000        35        49
2002        37        46
1993        28        46
2004        39        45
2003        38        45

Another measure of Bonds' power surge is home run frequency - the number
of at-bats it took him, on average, to hit each home run. Over the first
13 years of his career - that is, before steroids - he hit a home run
every 16.2 at-bats. His most productive year during that period was 1994,
when he hit a home run every 10.6 at-bats. (Bonds played in 112 of the
Giants' 115 games in 1994, the season that ended in a lockout. He hit 37
home runs in 391 at-bats.)

From 1999 through 2004 - after steroids - the frequency with which Bonds
struck homers nearly doubled, to one every 8.5 at-bats. His best year was
2001, when he hit a home run every 6.5 at-bats.


YR       AB/HR
1986      25.8
1987      22.0
1988      22.4
1989      30.5
1990      15.7
1991      20.4
1992      13.9
1993      11.7
1994      10.6
1995      15.3
1996      12.3
1997      13.3
1998      14.9
1999      10.4
2000       9.8
2001       6.5
2002       8.8
2003       8.7
2004       8.3

Before steroids, Bonds was an outstanding player and a likely Hall
of Famer, the numbers affirm. In more than 6,600 at-bats over 13
seasons, he batted .290 and hit 411 homers with 1,216 RBIs. He made
the All-Star team eight times and was selected the National League's
Most Valuable Player in 1990, 1992 and 1993. Had he retired after the
1998 season, he would rank 40th on the all-time home run list, above
Duke Snider. His 1,357 walks would rank 28th.


Using a mathematical average to roll those 13 seasons into a single year,
we see that Bonds, before steroids, hit for average and power and was an
excellent base runner. The composite Bonds year during that period looks
like this:

    G   AB     R   H  2B  3B  HR  RBI   SB  CS   BB  SO   BA   OBP
86-98  146  509   105 147  31   5  32   93   34  10  104  81 .290  .411

But after age 35 - after steroids - Bonds improved his game in most
categories. From 1999 to 2004, he had far better power and drove in and
scored more runs. His batting average increased by an astonishing 38
points, and his on-base percentage soared because of a big increase in
his walk total, which already was high.

At what should have been the end of his baseball career, Bonds became a
significantly better hitter than earlier in his career, as a composite
of those years shows.

         G   AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI   SB  CS   BB  SO   BA   OBP
99-04  136  413  118  136  27   2  49  105   10   2  158  63 .328  .517

The post-steroids Bonds also became one of the greatest hitters of all time.
Lee Sinins, creator of the Sabermetric Baseball Encyclopedia, used
statistician Bill James' "runs created" formula, a measure of total
batting production, to determine the best offensive performances in
baseball history. As Sinins ran the numbers, Bonds' 73-homer year in
2001 was the second-best offensive season any player has ever had -
second only to Babe Ruth's 1921 season, when the New York Yankees star hit
.378 with 171 RBI.

      Year  Age   AB    R    H  2B  3B  HR  RBI   BB  SO    BA   OBP   RC
RUTH  1921   26  540  177  204  44  16  59  171  145  81  .378  .512  243
BONDS 2001   36  476  129  156  32   2  73  137  177  93  .328  .515  228

Three of Bonds' post-steroids seasons were among the top 10 in baseball
history, according to Sinins' list. Only Ruth had more, with five top-10
seasons.

#      Name     Year      Age       Tm       BA       HR      RBI       RC
1      RUTH     1921       26      NYY     .378       59      171      243
2     BONDS     2001       36      SFG     .328       73      137      228
3      RUTH     1923       28      NYY     .393       41      131      227
4      RUTH     1920       25      NYY     .376       54      137      216
5    GEHRIG     1927       24      NYY     .373       47      175      215
6      RUTH     1927       32      NYY     .356       60      164      211
6      FOXX     1932       24      PHA     .364       58      169      211
8      RUTH     1924       29      NYY     .378       46      121      209
9     BONDS     2002       37      SFG     .370       46      110      206
10    BONDS     2004       39      SFG     .362       45      101      204
10    GEHRIG    1936       33      NYY     .354       49      152      204
10   HORNSBY    1922       26      STL     .401       42      152      204

Sinins' study also underscores the fact that in baseball terms,
Bonds was an old man when he emerged as one of the greats of the game.

Bonds was 36 when he had his 73-home run season, the first of three seasons
that rank in the top 10; he was 39 in 2004, which Sinins puts as 10th best
of all time, tied with Lou Gehrig's 1936 season for the Yankees and Rogers
Hornsby's efforts for the 1922 Cardinals.

No player was older than 33 when he performed at this high level. (Gehrig was
33 in 1936.) Ruth was 26 in 1921, which Sinins rates as the best season of all
time. The average age of the other players on the top-10 seasons list - along
with Ruth, Gehrig and Hornsby, there is Jimmie Foxx, the old-time Philadelphia
Athletic - was 27.

Yet another measure of Bonds' late-in-life power surge: By the end of 2005,
he had hit more home runs after age 35 than any of the game's great sluggers:

HR          35&UP  Total HR         %
BONDS         263       708        37
AARON         245       755        32
PALMEIRO      208       569        37
RUTH          198       714        28
JACKSON       153       563        27
MCCOVEY       137       521        26
MCGWIRE       126       583        22
MURRAY        125       504        25
SCHMIDT       123       548        22
MAYS          118       660        18
ROBINSON      111       586        19
BANKS         108       512        21
WILLIAMS      103       521        20
KILLEBREW      86       573        15
SOSA           49       588         8
OTT            48       511         9
MANTLE         40       536         7
MATTHEWS       19       512         4
FOXX            7       534         1

Sean Forman, proprietor of baseball-reference.com, used a different statistic
to track Bonds' power surge after 1999. In a study done in 2004 for The
Chronicle, he applied a measure of offensive performance called OPS, for
on-base percentage plus slugging percentage, to compare Bonds to other great
hitters.

Forman's conclusion: Starting in 2000, after Bonds had recovered from a 1999
elbow injury, he put together the greatest five consecutive seasons of any
hitter in baseball history. During that stretch, when he was age 35 to 39,
Bonds batted .339, hit 258 homers and drove in 544 runs, with an OPS of 1.316.
His performance was slightly better than what the study showed was the
 second-best five-year run of all time: Babe Ruth's first five years with the
Yankees. From age 25 to 29, Ruth hit .370 with 235 homeruns, 659 runs batted in,
and an OPS of 1.288. No other players in baseball history came close, the study
found.
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2007, 11:25:43 AM »

I agree..

let me ask you something: roger was born 1962, so that makes him 45

if we go back 10-12 years or so..that would place him around 33-35..at the point  most pitchers are just about done for and are usually wrapping up their careers. At that time he had 9, 10 and 10 wins. Boston then let him go because they thought that it was over

then a miracle happened at age 35+ he won 20+ or more several times. The man was just dominant at 35 to 41 winning several cy young awards. He found the fountain of youth and strength...interesting

yet you say that don't susect anything

men lie, women lie, numbers don't

the first 2 number columns are win and loses


1984     Boston Red Sox 9 4 4.32 21 20 5 1 0 --- 133.1 146 67 64 13 2 29 126
1985     Boston Red Sox 7 5 3.29 15 15 3 1 0 --- 98.1 83 38 36 5 3 37 74
1986     Boston Red Sox 24 4 2.48 33 33 10 1 0 --- 254.0 179 77 70 21 4 67 238
1987     Boston Red Sox 20 9 2.97 36 36 18 7 0 --- 281.2 248 100 93 19 9 83 256
1988     Boston Red Sox 18 12 2.93 35 35 14 8 0 --- 264.0 217 93 86 17 6 62 291
1989     Boston Red Sox 17 11 3.13 35 35 8 3 0 --- 253.1 215 101 88 20 8 93 230
1990     Boston Red Sox 21 6 1.93 31 31 7 4 0 --- 228.1 193 59 49 7 7 54 209
1991     Boston Red Sox 18 10 2.62 35 35 13 4 0 --- 271.1 219 93 79 15 5 65 241
1992     Boston Red Sox 18 11 2.41 32 32 11 5 0 --- 246.2 203 80 66 11 9 62 208
1993     Boston Red Sox 11 14 4.46 29 29 2 1 0 --- 191.2 175 99 95 17 11 67 160
1994     Boston Red Sox 9 7 2.85 24 24 3 1 0 --- 170.2 124 62 54 15 4 71 168
1995     Boston Red Sox 10 5 4.18 23 23 0 0 0 --- 140.0 141 70 65 15 14 60 132
1996     Boston Red Sox 10 13 3.63 34 34 6 2 0 --- 242.2 216 106 98 19 4 106 257
1997     Toronto Blue Jays 21 7 2.05 34 34 9 3 0 --- 264.0 204 65 60 9 12 68 292
1998     Toronto Blue Jays 20 6 2.65 33 33 5 3 0 --- 234.2 169 78 69 11 7 88 271
1999     New York Yankees 14 10 4.60 30 30 1 1 0 0 187.2 185 101 96 20 9 90 163
2000     New York Yankees 13 8 3.70 32 32 1 0 0 0 204.1 184 96 84 26 10 84 188
2001     New York Yankees 20 3 3.51 33 33 0 0 0 0 220.1 205 94 86 19 5 72 213
2002     New York Yankees 13 6 4.35 29 29 0 0 0 0 180.0 172 94 87 18 7 63 192
2003     New York Yankees 17 9 3.91 33 33 1 1 0 0 211.2 199 99 92 24 5 58 190
2004     Houston Astros 18 4 2.98 33 33 0 0 0 0 214.1 169 76 71 15 6 79 218
2005     Houston Astros 13 8 1.87 32 32 1 0 0 0 211.1 151 51 44 11 3 62 185
2006     Houston Astros 7 6 2.30 19 19 0 0 0 0 113.1 89 34 29 7 4 29 102
2007     New York Yankees 3 4 3.72 10 9 0 0 0 0 58.0 52 24 24 5 1 15 37

original link
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=112388&statType=2


Agreed that numbers don't lie, but consider this. I would have to say thay most pitchers longevity goes beyond 35 years old, you still have quite a pitchers that are still in the game at 39-40 and some even older as in the case with Randy Johnson (BTW, I heard Johnson is out and getting ready for back surgery which should be intresting if he makes a comeback after that and at his age) but they are not as dominant as Clemens.

I think the league has to be suspect of something but since Clemens is arguably the best pitcher in the history of baseball and the fans liked him and he was media friendly, they turn a blind eye.
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The Coach
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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2007, 11:31:09 AM »



   Bonds is a skinny 20 HR and 30 SB player without all the juice and GH, the guy is pathetic.

I hate when people put up comparison pics from 15-20 years ago and then put pics up from present day........even if he didn't juice, he would have been bigger, I see all the time when they put up those rediculous comparison pics of McGwire when he was with Oakland and then 20 years later when he was with St. Louis..........again, in a span like that ANYONE would change. While you're at it, just post a pic of when he was in little league and then post another when he was with Pittsburg Roll Eyes
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Playboy
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2007, 11:32:15 AM »

two HOMERUNS away from breaking Hank Aarons record... I  hope tomorrows game is the winner for him
And we all know what everyone is going to cry about when he does break the record  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
The same uneducated people that think creatine and androstiendione is an AAS. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. But I guess the world needs uneducated cry babies too.
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The Ugly
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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2007, 11:38:15 AM »

But I guess the world needs uneducated cry babies too.

Fortunately, we have the yous of the world to help.
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